Anonymous Posting

[Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.]

Greets. Curious to know ... how any "pros" respond to anonymous
posts ... like .. from "Pixelpuke" or "PhotoNuke" ... "Is the S40
better than the Nikon XXXXX" .... want to help neophyte photogs
... but feeling stepped on by folks who do not respect themselves
enough to sign their names. Comments?
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Apologies for the long post. I have read all of the responses .... hehehe ... even the anonymous ones. It is time to re-evaluate my position. Having thought about it ... I have reached the conclusion that anonymous posting is not a sign of lack of "self respect" for oneself ... but for the most part, a sign of insecurity: concern and fear. No doubt, there are those that post anonymously to flame or attack, cowards. But also honorable, well meaning persons who are afraid, for whatever reason, justified or imaginary ... that their posts might make them susceptible to attack in "real life". Not sharing that fear, I did not understand it. I was wrong. The arguments made, aside from the "ad homonym" attacks ... were well thought out and well argued ... causing me to re-evaluate my position. I thank you for helping me grow. Perhaps it helped some others re-evaluate their positions. I will continue to post using my real name. I will read anonymous posts in a different light.

On the issue of "pro". I spent the earlier part of the evening re-reading old threads in several forums. There are three positions: a "pro" is someone that makes their living selling pictures. A "pro" is someone who has reached a level of excellence in the craft to be deemed a "pro" .... and , third ... a person who has reached a level of excellence taking pictures that allows them to sell their pictures, (not necessarily making their primary living doing it). Well thought out and argued positions, ( .... hehehe .... by no one in this thread).

Is the kid at Walmart that shoots "Family Portraits" a "pro"? Is my friend who shoots INCREDIBLE landscapes ... and gives them to his friends a "pro"? Neither, in my opinion. A "pro" is someone ... who consistently produces great work and sells it, (whether their primary income comes from prior investments, owning and running a Camera Store or running a Printing Business .... or .... practicing Law). I did not, nor do I have a wish to offend .... I truly do miss folks signing their names and providing a link to their work ... so I can learn from it.
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

 

[Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.]

That in fact, one might appreciate a great work, a great idea, even
a great photograph without knowing the name of the actual person
behind it.

A point well made and appreciated and acknowledged by me, Bob. Additionally, a point well lost on others
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

 

[BobTrips]

That in fact, one might appreciate a great work, a great idea, even
a great photograph without knowing the name of the actual person
behind it.

A point well made and appreciated and acknowledged by me, Bob.
Additionally, a point well lost on others
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Is that a shift from the original post of three days ago?

--
bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal

 

[Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.]

Is that a shift from the original post of three days ago?

One of the nice things about living past 21 ... is realizing the fact that being wrong is part of the human condition, (isn't life on the job training?). Would like to think that I'm smart enough to learn from my mistakes.
Misunderstood why folks would post anonymously.
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

 

[John Mitchell]

... I have reached the
conclusion that anonymous posting is not a sign of lack of "self
respect" for oneself ... but for the most part, a sign of
insecurity: concern and fear.
..But also honorable, well
meaning persons who are afraid, for whatever reason, justified or
imaginary ... that their posts might make them susceptible to
attack in "real life". Not sharing that fear, I did not understand
it.

Karl,

Having just taken 2 valium to calm my fear of life, I think I'm now able to write this. My wife and daughter just left my studio so I feel better. I made them come out here and sit down for a while and tell me how talented, smart and wonderful that I am. This helped me to alleviate the "insecurity" which I feel about myself. I'm sure that you can understand just how fragile that I am both mentally and physically. You could never truly understand this because you could never possibly imagine the fears which I carry with me about being "susceptible to attack in real life". It's a constant worry that I must carry with me each moment of the day.

Your opinions on this matter are neither right nor wrong just as mine aren't. They are just opinions but I gotta tell you brother...I personally just don't think that you get this. With all of the amazing amount of technology, instant information, computerized everything, and video cameras pointed at us from every street corner and parking lot....have you ever stopped to think that some people just want a little bit of privacy ?? In today's society, we are lucky if we can even take a leak without it being public information. That thing we call privacy often seems like a long lost concept and a very dear one for me to lose. I'm sorry but I do not nor have I ever equated privacy with fear, insecurity, or weakness.

I'm not trying to hammer your repies into the ground but it's obvious to me that we aren't even on the same page on this one. In one of your replies you wrote...."A point well made and appreciated and acknowledged by me, Bob. Additionally, a point well lost on others " Perhaps I and others in this group don't have as many letters after our names as you do but I personally find that comment to be quite condescending. I don't claim to be the brightest bear in the woods but Mrs. Mitchell did not raise her son to be a fool.

I'll have to agree to disagree with your feelings and posts on this subject. I'll see you in another thread where we most likely will agree and if not...will continue to honor your right to express your feelings.
Kind regards,
John Mitchell

 

[Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.]

Well, John ... without a doubt ... you know who I'm ... as does everyone else. After a couple of years, (including private e-mails and personal invitations to give me a call ...... and helping me use 9500 cartridges in a 7500) ... I still don't know who you are, vis a vie, who you say your are. Doesn't much matter to me, since I consider you a friend. Have no reason to doubt that. We may disagree ... but have never been disagreeable. I wish you well, (anonymously
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

 

[Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.]

Having just taken 2 valium to calm my fear of life, I think I'm now
able to write this. My wife and daughter just left my studio so I
feel better. I made them come out here and sit down for a while and
tell me how talented, smart and wonderful that I am. This helped me
to alleviate the "insecurity" which I feel about myself. I'm sure
that you can understand just how fragile that I am both mentally
and physically. You could never truly understand this because you
could never possibly imagine the fears which I carry with me about
being "susceptible to attack in real life". It's a constant worry
that I must carry with me each moment of the day.

Forgot to mention, John ... all that stuff they told us about "better living through chemistry" .... and "agent orange" being safe ... may not have been the truth ..... course what do I know.
As always, the warmest regards.
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

 

[kns]

[begin quote]

a sign of
insecurity: concern and fear. No doubt, there are those that post
anonymously to flame or attack, cowards. But also honorable, well
meaning persons who are afraid, for whatever reason, justified or
imaginary

[end quote]

You just can't let it go without suggesting that the decision to post (semi)anonymously is driven by some underlying psycho-pathological problem, when on multiple occasions you've been informed that it's a choice matter based on rational cognitive processes. The information you have been provided does not allow you to make the above conclusions. You don't have enough evidence to make judgements about the psychological state of these users. The shift or growth that you've alluded to is only in the nature of negative assessment of a large percentage of the user base; you've changed the label. (Why exactly did you use the phrase "a sign of insecurity"? It's a rather loaded phrase, non?)

If you wish to learn why not post your photos on photosig.com and photo.net for public critiques ( WITHOUT playing the 3 thumbs-up game at the former site). It takes all of a couple minutes to sign-up for both services and the load times have dramatically improved since Saturday on photosig. Having written evaluations would make it possible for you to refine your work. Once again, it only works if you support objective analysis of the submitted photos!!!!

What do you mean you "miss folks signing their names and providing a link to their work"? I was never under the impression that this was once a universal practice. I don't believe that most people post their work and with respect to "signing their names" ultimately it is the content of the post that matters.

BTW, I find the above quote as insulting as your first post.

Ken

Greets. Curious to know ... how any "pros" respond to anonymous
posts ... like .. from "Pixelpuke" or "PhotoNuke" ... "Is the S40
better than the Nikon XXXXX" .... want to help neophyte photogs
... but feeling stepped on by folks who do not respect themselves
enough to sign their names. Comments?
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Apologies for the long post. I have read all of the responses
.... hehehe ... even the anonymous ones. It is time to re-evaluate
my position. Having thought about it ... I have reached the
conclusion that anonymous posting is not a sign of lack of "self
respect" for oneself ... but for the most part, a sign of
insecurity: concern and fear. No doubt, there are those that post
anonymously to flame or attack, cowards. But also honorable, well
meaning persons who are afraid, for whatever reason, justified or
imaginary ... that their posts might make them susceptible to
attack in "real life". Not sharing that fear, I did not understand
it. I was wrong. The arguments made, aside from the "ad homonym"
attacks ... were well thought out and well argued ... causing me
to re-evaluate my position. I thank you for helping me grow.
Perhaps it helped some others re-evaluate their positions. I will
continue to post using my real name. I will read anonymous posts
in a different light.
On the issue of "pro". I spent the earlier part of the evening
re-reading old threads in several forums. There are three
positions: a "pro" is someone that makes their living selling
pictures. A "pro" is someone who has reached a level of excellence
in the craft to be deemed a "pro" .... and , third ... a person who
has reached a level of excellence taking pictures that allows them
to sell their pictures, (not necessarily making their primary
living doing it). Well thought out and argued positions, ( ....
hehehe .... by no one in this thread).
Is the kid at Walmart that shoots "Family Portraits" a "pro"? Is my
friend who shoots INCREDIBLE landscapes ... and gives them to his
friends a "pro"? Neither, in my opinion. A "pro" is someone ...
who consistently produces great work and sells it, (whether their
primary income comes from prior investments, owning and running a
Camera Store or running a Printing Business .... or ....
practicing Law). I did not, nor do I have a wish to offend .... I
truly do miss folks signing their names and providing a link to
their work ... so I can learn from it.
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

 

[Rembvrijn]

I was going to reply to the exact same passage but decided to read your response first, John. Although I had a couple other things to say, you hit it on the head. As I'm sure you agree, I cuold not have said it any better. I would go one step further and say not only different PAGE, but different BOOK. At least for me.

GageFX

... I have reached the
conclusion that anonymous posting is not a sign of lack of "self
respect" for oneself ... but for the most part, a sign of
insecurity: concern and fear.
..But also honorable, well
meaning persons who are afraid, for whatever reason, justified or
imaginary ... that their posts might make them susceptible to
attack in "real life". Not sharing that fear, I did not understand
it.

Karl,
Having just taken 2 valium to calm my fear of life, I think I'm now
able to write this. My wife and daughter just left my studio so I
feel better. I made them come out here and sit down for a while and
tell me how talented, smart and wonderful that I am. This helped me
to alleviate the "insecurity" which I feel about myself. I'm sure
that you can understand just how fragile that I am both mentally
and physically. You could never truly understand this because you
could never possibly imagine the fears which I carry with me about
being "susceptible to attack in real life". It's a constant worry
that I must carry with me each moment of the day.
Your opinions on this matter are neither right nor wrong just as
mine aren't. They are just opinions but I gotta tell you
brother...I personally just don't think that you get this. With all
of the amazing amount of technology, instant information,
computerized everything, and video cameras pointed at us from every
street corner and parking lot....have you ever stopped to think
that some people just want a little bit of privacy ?? In today's
society, we are lucky if we can even take a leak without it being
public information. That thing we call privacy often seems like a
long lost concept and a very dear one for me to lose. I'm sorry but
I do not nor have I ever equated privacy with fear, insecurity, or
weakness.
I'm not trying to hammer your repies into the ground but it's
obvious to me that we aren't even on the same page on this one. In
one of your replies you wrote...."A point well made and appreciated
and acknowledged by me, Bob. Additionally, a point well lost on
others " Perhaps I and others in this group don't have as many
letters after our names as you do but I personally find that
comment to be quite condescending. I don't claim to be the
brightest bear in the woods but Mrs. Mitchell did not raise her son
to be a fool.
I'll have to agree to disagree with your feelings and posts on this
subject. I'll see you in another thread where we most likely will
agree and if not...will continue to honor your right to express
your feelings.
Kind regards,
John Mitchell

 

[Laurence Matson]

All I was trying to do was fill Karl in on something that he didn't
know - that there is some controversy over who actually wrote "The
Complete Works of ...".

Trying to point out to him that there is no absolute evidence that
Bill was actually the author and not a front man....

That in fact, one might appreciate a great work, a great idea, even
a great photograph without knowing the name of the actual person
behind it.

Actually, we sleep at night in my part of the world. Coming back up is reserved for the morning hours.

Some points well taken, especially the last.

However, the controversy about Shakespeare's writing is alive and well in a small circle of activitists around Oxford. Every once in a while they gain another prominent convert, at which point they pound the PR drum for attention. Serious and long study of his works has not left me with much doubt about authorship. In reading the body, I see a whole and hear one (albeit maturing over time; duh!) voice. In Elizabethan terms, we have pretty good hard evidence of his existence (receipts, direct and indirect attribution, published complaints about his abilities, contracts, works published immediately after his death, etc.).

The misinformation to which I objected had to do with the statement that Shakespeare wrote under an alias. I do not think that to be true.

To Karl's point, I agree that openness can be good (the name below is real). However, each individual must decide how much to open up in this extremely open form of communication. Two incidents in other forums underscore this point: The crucification of a French participant who dared post a picture of his son (good picture), and the tussel going on now about a retired TI engineer, who non-anonymously posted his sketicism about the Foveon process.

And finally, it is not bull to say that one can gain great insight into literature through repeated reading just as it is not bull to return to the same site for another photo session in order to gain new insight (good word). With literature, it is an important way for me to hear the voice.

 

[Bern Caughey]

Among other things, I studied playwiting in college. I studied Shakespeare for years, including a full year on the graduate level. I do believe he used an alias & that he authored all his work.

I said "bull" to;

If you had read, acted in, and directed Shakespeare
(which means reading each play dozens of times during rehearsal),
you would not fall for this nonsense.

& I've never even been to Oxford.

Where do you think he gained his insight into the language & manners of the court. Mark Twain, another alias, was a truelly great writer, but he wrote about what he knew. With a higher education & circumstances he would likely have written much differently.

 

[Laurence Matson]

So we stand on equal footing on the wrong stage (this forum). Nonetheless, an interesting discussion.

If you mean that William Shakespeare used a nom de plume, I wonder why, since there are enough records to demonstrate that there was someone by this name working, acting, and writing in London at that time, who also was married to someone in Stratford and later bought a house there. Still, that is a less radical concept than that put forward by the link below.

Courtly manners, ways, mores, and intrigues were readily known to those with access, including the lowest classes. In fact, the English language has numerous examples of the lower classes actually being the drivers of change through the fact that those in court acted as the go-betweens for the commoners and royalty. It is for this reason, for example, that our food vocabulary is divided into two disctinctive groups: the French group for the type of meal when prepared (veal-veau, for example) and the German group for the ingredients (meat from a calf-Kalb). It is certainly not unlikely that many people at all levels knew much more than we think. It is only that the literature comes from the literate, and that the commoners often weren't.

I said "bull" to;

If you had read, acted in, and directed Shakespeare
(which means reading each play dozens of times during rehearsal),
you would not fall for this nonsense.

& I've never even been to Oxford.

Although you may feel that this is bull, I do not, and long years of study -- formal and self -- of much of what I know, including photography, has borne it out for me.

And by Oxford, I in no way meant the university town in Great Britain nor the college town in Ohio, but the person. Please refer to this link:

http://www.shakespeare-oxford.com/

Where do you think he gained his insight into the language &
manners of the court. Mark Twain, another alias, was a truelly
great writer, but he wrote about what he knew. With a higher
education & circumstances he would likely have written much
differently.

By the way, Mark Twain also wrote about court life and well about Switzerland.

There is much that we do not know about genius. I am now working on a paper on how Jack Russell bred his dogs. Brilliant breeder working without a solid education in genetics creates new and very interesting breed later ruined by others only for some much later to try to restore the breed almost fruitlessly. Same problem. How did he do it?

 

[Bern Caughey]

I am still on the other side of the fence, but I respect your well formed opinion.

Sorry for the "bull" comment, I was in the middle of a shoot & did not have time to elaborate.

 

[Laurence Matson]

Thanks for the discussion and good luck with the shoot.

Back to pixels for you and a watch translation for me.

I am still on the other side of the fence, but I respect your well
formed opinion.

Sorry for the "bull" comment, I was in the middle of a shoot & did
not have time to elaborate.

 

[Jim DeLuco]

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Or are you really that full of yourself?

-----------------
David
Washington, DC

--
David,

You are really asking that question of Karl when you have this "self-portrait" on your web site???!!!

http://www.davidguna.com/Personal.htm

Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com

 

[Tom O'Neil]

The original poster may just want to know who everybody is,
in order so he can figure out who he agrees with. He himself lists
his university degrees in his name. That must be to help us
realize he's a smart guy.

I would list my degrees but including "B.S." probably could be misconstrued or twisted by some unscrupulous person.

I post my real name but I don't really care if everyone else does, as long as they are engaged in a real discussion and aren't a wiseass troll. I know anything from biggles is nonsense, but I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

 

[Rembvrijn]

hahahahahaha

that's some funny stuff.

thanks Jim.

GageFX

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Or are you really that full of yourself?

-----------------
David
Washington, DC

--
David,
You are really asking that question of Karl when you have this
"self-portrait" on your web site???!!!

http://www.davidguna.com/Personal.htm

Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com