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Dave Knadler
Guest
Well. Can't argue with that. Anybody wants to bash lawyers, I'm in...
http://www.pbase.com/davek/
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BobTrips
Guest
Maybe there needs to be a split in this forum.
One for Pro photographers to discuss business issues. This can still be related to digital photography. Digital is clearly changing the business of photography.
Another forum for Advanced Shooters. There are people whose skill level has exceeded the 'Open' forum posts of "Which camera should I buy?" and are using more advanced cameras. This group includes (I would think) most Pros and some advanced amateurs.
Clearly there is an overlap in skill levels. As some of you point out there are pros who turn out lousy photos and there are amateurs who produce extremely high quality photographs.
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bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal
One for Pro photographers to discuss business issues. This can still be related to digital photography. Digital is clearly changing the business of photography.
Another forum for Advanced Shooters. There are people whose skill level has exceeded the 'Open' forum posts of "Which camera should I buy?" and are using more advanced cameras. This group includes (I would think) most Pros and some advanced amateurs.
Clearly there is an overlap in skill levels. As some of you point out there are pros who turn out lousy photos and there are amateurs who produce extremely high quality photographs.
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bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal
DuraVision
Active member
I choose to post anonymously for many reasons. That doesn't mean I don't respect myself. I suggest you show a little respect to people who have concerns about privacy in the information age.
Life many things in life, "respect" is a two way street.
-DuraVision (not my legal name)
Life many things in life, "respect" is a two way street.
-DuraVision (not my legal name)
Paul Jones
Senior Member
Hi Karl
I'm not bashing your original post. Just an observation.
You object to pseudonyms like 'PhotoNuke' or 'PixelPuke' and would prefer posters to use proper names.
My real name IS Paul Jones. But if I posted under the name 'Paul Smith' and hid the fact that I had a website you'd presumably be none the wiser and would accept me even though I was using a pseudonym.
So could it be that it's more the style of pseudonym that you object to?
For myself, I read and respond to the posts that interest me, regardless of the name of the poster. I accept that many people wish to protect their privacy and as one who visits other forums I know that pseudonyms are quite normal.
Best regards
Paul
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Paul Jones
http://www.pauljones.org
(I think therefore I am)
I'm not bashing your original post. Just an observation.
You object to pseudonyms like 'PhotoNuke' or 'PixelPuke' and would prefer posters to use proper names.
My real name IS Paul Jones. But if I posted under the name 'Paul Smith' and hid the fact that I had a website you'd presumably be none the wiser and would accept me even though I was using a pseudonym.
So could it be that it's more the style of pseudonym that you object to?
For myself, I read and respond to the posts that interest me, regardless of the name of the poster. I accept that many people wish to protect their privacy and as one who visits other forums I know that pseudonyms are quite normal.
Best regards
Paul
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Paul Jones
http://www.pauljones.org
(I think therefore I am)
John Redcorn
Active member
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Karl, as an Attorney I should think you would have a great respect for persons who wish to remain anonymous. Privacy issues have become BIG in the last decade and most people want as little personal info about themselves as possible floating around cyberspace. There's nothing wrong with keeping your identity private and I wouldn't hesitate to post a response to a thread because the original poster was anonymous.
Now, I am posting (usually just lurking) in this forum not as a pro, but as a wanna be pro. I like you have another succesful career, but would love to make a second career from photography- perhaps overtaking my first career someday.
Thanks,
John (real first name) Redcorn (nickname)
Now, I am posting (usually just lurking) in this forum not as a pro, but as a wanna be pro. I like you have another succesful career, but would love to make a second career from photography- perhaps overtaking my first career someday.
Thanks,
John (real first name) Redcorn (nickname)
J
John Mitchell
Guest
Karl,
I find the subject of your thread sad. This topic has obviously become a crusade for you as you continue to bring it up on an slmost weekly basis. It certainly is your right to express your feelings but let me explain why I think that it's sad.
I won't go into the pro vs no pro arguments here. What I will say is this. By refusing to respond to anonymous posts, you limit the amount of good information that a poster might recieve. Let's put it on the other foot. Let say that everyone decided not to answer any questions posted by lawyers. They have no good reason other than their conviction that they don't like lawyers. Well what's gonna happen when you need a good answer to your question....nothing because nobody will answer it just because you practice law. Their reasoning is as logical as yours. They don't like lawyers...you don't like anonymity.
Although photography is my business, I seldom shoot any sports. Last fall my daughter was in the homecoming court at the football game. I don't shoot in stadiums so I asked a few questions about lenses to use and lighting. Getting these shots were more important to me than any job that I could ever do and I wanted to get them right. I got great responses from people like Mike Delaney and many others. As it turned out, I would have taken lenses that were too long and would have over-estimated the available light in the stadium. The shots came out great and I will have the memories forever because of these people. How sad it would have been if I had recieved not one answer to my question just because I don't post my e-mail address. Yes, how sad if everyone on this forum took your attitude towards anonymous posters. How less rich this place would be.
So while I honor your right to express your opinion, I want to thank those other people that have have helped me (an anonymous e-mail person) with my questions and I also hope that I have have helped other anonymous and not anonymous people with information that I could provide.
Regards,
John Mitchell -- real name
e-mail -- anonymous
Alias -- Mitchell Johns
I find the subject of your thread sad. This topic has obviously become a crusade for you as you continue to bring it up on an slmost weekly basis. It certainly is your right to express your feelings but let me explain why I think that it's sad.
I won't go into the pro vs no pro arguments here. What I will say is this. By refusing to respond to anonymous posts, you limit the amount of good information that a poster might recieve. Let's put it on the other foot. Let say that everyone decided not to answer any questions posted by lawyers. They have no good reason other than their conviction that they don't like lawyers. Well what's gonna happen when you need a good answer to your question....nothing because nobody will answer it just because you practice law. Their reasoning is as logical as yours. They don't like lawyers...you don't like anonymity.
Although photography is my business, I seldom shoot any sports. Last fall my daughter was in the homecoming court at the football game. I don't shoot in stadiums so I asked a few questions about lenses to use and lighting. Getting these shots were more important to me than any job that I could ever do and I wanted to get them right. I got great responses from people like Mike Delaney and many others. As it turned out, I would have taken lenses that were too long and would have over-estimated the available light in the stadium. The shots came out great and I will have the memories forever because of these people. How sad it would have been if I had recieved not one answer to my question just because I don't post my e-mail address. Yes, how sad if everyone on this forum took your attitude towards anonymous posters. How less rich this place would be.
So while I honor your right to express your opinion, I want to thank those other people that have have helped me (an anonymous e-mail person) with my questions and I also hope that I have have helped other anonymous and not anonymous people with information that I could provide.
Regards,
John Mitchell -- real name
e-mail -- anonymous
Alias -- Mitchell Johns
Larry H. Smith
Veteran Member
Laurence Matson
Forum Pro
Actually, one of the reasons I like this forum is that it rarely has a lot of misinformation.
Good grief, join the Oxford Society if you want to smoke and inhale this stuff. If you had read, acted in, and directed Shakespeare (which means reading each play dozens of times during rehearsal), you would not fall for this nonsense.
Now, let's get back to megapixels and leave the Elizabethan pipe dreams to those less astute.
Good grief, join the Oxford Society if you want to smoke and inhale this stuff. If you had read, acted in, and directed Shakespeare (which means reading each play dozens of times during rehearsal), you would not fall for this nonsense.
Now, let's get back to megapixels and leave the Elizabethan pipe dreams to those less astute.
Have you tried explaining Einstein, Churchill. Same problems; probably equally bad in school.Actually, Karl, there are a number of people who have studieder .... you arn't suggesting that Shakespeare "posted" his work
anonymously? Have a feeling that everybody ... at that time, knew
exactly who Shakespeare was in "real life"? .... (smiling)
.... Thank you for posting your e-mail addy
Warm Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com
Shakespeare and his work and who attribute the writing to another
person.
B
BobTrips
Guest
Well Laurence,
Your post makes no sense, at least to me.
How could acting/directing/reading Shakespeare's works verify that Bill was the actual author?
Or is the 'misinformation' the statement that some people question his authorship?
Now, I have no dogs in the "did Bill write it" fight. But, just because you're offended that someone could question the authorship doesn't make you right.
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bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal
Laurence Matson
Forum Pro
That's certainly true. However, there is something to be said for reading something time and again. It gives you a good sense of the whole; a rounded picture. Were the Oxford people to read Shakespeare many times without their filters, they might have another picture. Instead they argue a couple of very specific points from an interesting but abstruse perspective.
I also know that if one repeats misinformation long and loud enough, it eventually begins to gain a certain credence, which although baseless, finds its followers just because it is so omnipresent. Remember the information about the "lost viruses from the Defense Department germ warefare program" propagated by the KGB. I don't know in how many discussions that was presented as fact, only to be revealed as myth by the source after the fall of the wall.
The misinformation issue here is objectionable (too strong a word, perhaps; this is a forum) because it is outside the context of a forum where misinformation does not generally abound. It sort of hit one of my switches when I saw it where not expected.
Apologies if unintended offence was taken.
Forgive my ignorance, but what misinformation are you talking about? Has authorship been established beyond doubt via whatever means (e.g., statistical analysis of the texts)? In addition, the reasons presented to question authorship by Bob W. resonates with my way of thinking.
I also don't have a stake in this issue - just curious about the alleged misinformation. So, why are you certain about the authorship of these plays?
Thanks,
Ken
I also don't have a stake in this issue - just curious about the alleged misinformation. So, why are you certain about the authorship of these plays?
Thanks,
Ken
Bern Caughey
Senior Member
Bull!
Laurence Matson
Forum Pro
Bob's point, often used as a basis for the claim that Shakespeare could not have written these plays because of the amount of information he would have had to know, fails for several reasons:
1. It could be applied to Churchill and Einstein, who in our time demonstrated great knowledge far beyond their apparent capacity. Both were far worse than bad students. How is it possible that Einstein would develop concepts about the universe long before the ability to explore it to the extent he would have required were he have used observation rather than just his mind? How is it possible that Churchill would return from India after some years as an incredibly well-educated person having left England somewhat less than enlightened before? There is something to be said for a genius who can put things together and make sense where others cannot.
2. Were the "too-much-for-one-person" argument hold true, then it must apply to all. If not, then the lives had better match the works. Unfortunately, the primary candidate consistently put forward is Oxford, who did not live long enough to have written a large part of the later body of work. The latter problem is swept away under a carpet of earlier publication, which fails to hold water because the specific events mentioned in those later plays also took place after his death. A wierd form of Elizabethan pre-publication?
Interesting stuff, but it is time to return to speculative drooling about Foveon, Canon, and the like.
1. It could be applied to Churchill and Einstein, who in our time demonstrated great knowledge far beyond their apparent capacity. Both were far worse than bad students. How is it possible that Einstein would develop concepts about the universe long before the ability to explore it to the extent he would have required were he have used observation rather than just his mind? How is it possible that Churchill would return from India after some years as an incredibly well-educated person having left England somewhat less than enlightened before? There is something to be said for a genius who can put things together and make sense where others cannot.
2. Were the "too-much-for-one-person" argument hold true, then it must apply to all. If not, then the lives had better match the works. Unfortunately, the primary candidate consistently put forward is Oxford, who did not live long enough to have written a large part of the later body of work. The latter problem is swept away under a carpet of earlier publication, which fails to hold water because the specific events mentioned in those later plays also took place after his death. A wierd form of Elizabethan pre-publication?
Interesting stuff, but it is time to return to speculative drooling about Foveon, Canon, and the like.
Bern Caughey
Senior Member
The logic behind the Churchill and Einstein comparison is poor. As for the second "too-much-for-one-person" argument, I agree with you & have always dismissed it.
Laurence Matson
Forum Pro
Which one? John?
Laurence Matson
Forum Pro
Only due to the historical proximity.
Well, you still haven't demonstrated that Shakespeare was the author, only that sometimes we can be surprised by what others know. The comparison with Churchill and Einstein simply don't work because the availability and exchange of information was dramatically different between the 2 periods...(Trying to make your point by drawing parallels with individuals that differ on a large number of dimensions just ads confusion.) Further, If I'm not mistaken there are also issues of variable writing style across the plays that must be addressed.
[Being a bad student may be a result of many factors not related to intelligence or the ability to specialize in a specific domain. The ability to process information continues to mature/evolve into the 20s, thereafter it becomes difficult to disentangle form a growing knowledge base - my opinion. So, judging individuals on (early) school performance may be of no value.]
The question is clearly open for debate. Stating that point and intelligently speculating on the issue is not misinformation.
Ken
[Being a bad student may be a result of many factors not related to intelligence or the ability to specialize in a specific domain. The ability to process information continues to mature/evolve into the 20s, thereafter it becomes difficult to disentangle form a growing knowledge base - my opinion. So, judging individuals on (early) school performance may be of no value.]
The question is clearly open for debate. Stating that point and intelligently speculating on the issue is not misinformation.
Ken
B
BobTrips
Guest
All I was trying to do was fill Karl in on something that he didn't know - that there is some controversy over who actually wrote "The Complete Works of ...".
Trying to point out to him that there is no absolute evidence that Bill was actually the author and not a front man....
That in fact, one might appreciate a great work, a great idea, even a great photograph without knowing the name of the actual person behind it.
bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal
Trying to point out to him that there is no absolute evidence that Bill was actually the author and not a front man....
That in fact, one might appreciate a great work, a great idea, even a great photograph without knowing the name of the actual person behind it.
--Actually, Karl, there are a number of people who have studieder .... you arn't suggesting that Shakespeare "posted" his work
anonymously? Have a feeling that everybody ... at that time, knew
exactly who Shakespeare was in "real life"? .... (smiling)
.... Thank you for posting your e-mail addy
Warm Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com
Shakespeare and his work and who attribute the writing to another
person.
The "Works of Shakespeare" demonstrate a level of knowledge in
history, geography, even law, that is quite advanced. No one can
demonstrate how Ol' Bill would have come up with that level of
knowledge given what is known of him. (He traveled very little
outside of England, had no formal education, in fact, some feel
that he could barely sign his name.)
At that point in time being an actor or involved with theater was a
pretty low class activity. The thought is that the true author was
a member of the royalty who loved to write plays and let Bill have
the public credit.
True? Don't know. But very interesting stuff.
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bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal
bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal
Mike Delaney
Senior Member
Well said John! Glad the shots came out. Good to hear that some of the info helped.
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Mike D
http://www.pbase.com/miked
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Mike D
http://www.pbase.com/miked
J
John Mitchell
Guest
Mike,
It's hard for me to believe that a year has passed since I asked that question and it's funny because for me, that was my most important question that I've ever asked on this forum. I received advice and some good pointers from several people that regularly shoot football events. I will always be grateful for the help because the moment was so special for me. My camera and photography is what pays my bills but also, it forever captures special family moments for everyone that owns or has ever owned a camera. That is why that particular question was so important to me and why I was so grateful for those that responded. For me, that is what any forum is ultimately for....helping another person that has a question and needs an answer.I remembered your reply because it made me realize that I was heading out with the wrong equipment. As I said, I'm not a sports shooter and you are. I think football, and I thought long lenses and felt there would be good light. If I remember correctly, you told me that I had better start thinking flash and suggested leaving the long lenses and using my 28-70 AFS. As it turned out, I never took the 28-70 off the camera and used the flash in most every picture. It was good advice that worked great and was very nearly the opposite of what I thought I would need.
This is why I commented that this was a sad post. My daughter has grown up and left the nest now. How lucky I am to have great pictures of that wonderful and special autumn night. How fortunate that I had several people offer good and sound suggestions. I've got wonderful memories in print because a few people shared their knowledge with me even though I don't reveal my e-mail address. How truly sad it would have been to have come home with sub-par pictures just because nobdy would respond to a peson with no e-mail address.
I could go on but I won't. As you can see, my gratitude to these people remains strong even a year later. I'm a guy that's been shooting for decades but...I don't know everything and felt it best to ask people that have more experience in that area for this very special occasion. It's kind of funny in a way. We see hundreds of posts and read them Sometimes we offer our suggestions to those that ask. What we seldom even consider is the fact that this simple advice that we give is often greatly appreciated and in my case....will never be forgotten and will always be remembered each time I pull out those shot that I got at homecoming. Sometimes the simplest of things that we do and advice that we offer can impact the poster in such a positive way. A way sometimes, which for the most part, we may never know unless told. With that, I'll say it just one more time. How truly sad it would have been if I had been ignored for being anonymous.
Warm regards,
John Mitchell
It's hard for me to believe that a year has passed since I asked that question and it's funny because for me, that was my most important question that I've ever asked on this forum. I received advice and some good pointers from several people that regularly shoot football events. I will always be grateful for the help because the moment was so special for me. My camera and photography is what pays my bills but also, it forever captures special family moments for everyone that owns or has ever owned a camera. That is why that particular question was so important to me and why I was so grateful for those that responded. For me, that is what any forum is ultimately for....helping another person that has a question and needs an answer.I remembered your reply because it made me realize that I was heading out with the wrong equipment. As I said, I'm not a sports shooter and you are. I think football, and I thought long lenses and felt there would be good light. If I remember correctly, you told me that I had better start thinking flash and suggested leaving the long lenses and using my 28-70 AFS. As it turned out, I never took the 28-70 off the camera and used the flash in most every picture. It was good advice that worked great and was very nearly the opposite of what I thought I would need.
This is why I commented that this was a sad post. My daughter has grown up and left the nest now. How lucky I am to have great pictures of that wonderful and special autumn night. How fortunate that I had several people offer good and sound suggestions. I've got wonderful memories in print because a few people shared their knowledge with me even though I don't reveal my e-mail address. How truly sad it would have been to have come home with sub-par pictures just because nobdy would respond to a peson with no e-mail address.
I could go on but I won't. As you can see, my gratitude to these people remains strong even a year later. I'm a guy that's been shooting for decades but...I don't know everything and felt it best to ask people that have more experience in that area for this very special occasion. It's kind of funny in a way. We see hundreds of posts and read them Sometimes we offer our suggestions to those that ask. What we seldom even consider is the fact that this simple advice that we give is often greatly appreciated and in my case....will never be forgotten and will always be remembered each time I pull out those shot that I got at homecoming. Sometimes the simplest of things that we do and advice that we offer can impact the poster in such a positive way. A way sometimes, which for the most part, we may never know unless told. With that, I'll say it just one more time. How truly sad it would have been if I had been ignored for being anonymous.
Warm regards,
John Mitchell
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