Ai or Ai-S functionality on a D810

I'm still listening 😬

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Todd
hey, if two people tell you--one that something cannot be done, the other, that it can--you would only expect one of them to tell you how, right? ;-)

i've been shooting nikon for thirty years, i had four FAs, i currently have seven AI-S lenses for my D810 and none of any other kind... could i have erred in my replies? absolutely. i will be happy to stand corrected

even if i were wrong all along in this thread, would it make that 105 any worse? try it, will be fun at least

ps. a word of caution--try to mount an AI-S lens before you commit to buy one, take a bunch of pictures, can you focus it accurately? the stock D810 focusing screen is good enough in itself, but the factory shimming may be awfully wrong, in extreme cases resulting in a complete inability to get the manual focus right. it can be corrected relatively easily (i fixed mine with some scotch tape), but the extra tinkering may be a factor in your decision. do try it first if you can
 
off strict topic, 105mm 2.5 ai has rounded aperture blades, ais has straight ones.
 
I'm still listening 😬

--
Todd
hey, if two people tell you--one that something cannot be done, the other, that it can--you would only expect one of them to tell you how, right? ;-)

i've been shooting nikon for thirty years, i had four FAs, i currently have seven AI-S lenses for my D810 and none of any other kind... could i have erred in my replies? absolutely. i will be happy to stand corrected

even if i were wrong all along in this thread, would it make that 105 any worse? try it, will be fun at least

ps. a word of caution--try to mount an AI-S lens before you commit to buy one, take a bunch of pictures, can you focus it accurately? the stock D810 focusing screen is good enough in itself, but the factory shimming may be awfully wrong, in extreme cases resulting in a complete inability to get the manual focus right. it can be corrected relatively easily (i fixed mine with some scotch tape), but the extra tinkering may be a factor in your decision. do try it first if you can
Thank you Hippo Graius, I'll be buying it from eBay. That said, I do shoot with a manual Ziess 35mm f2 ZF.2 now and I'm pretty happy manually focusing that lens using the focus confirm dot in the viewfinder. I would hope the 105 would work as well.

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Todd
great! best of luck! :-)

ps. all the other stuff aside, you know the meaning of "chipped," right? basically, you will be using a stock, factory 105 in modes M and A only
 
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My sincere Apologies as the D810 will not control the lens aperture in AI- or AI-S lenses. I tried my 105/2.5 AI-S on the D810 and the aperture must be set using the aperture ring as some have commented. I know this worked on some earlier cameras and I thought it worked on my D800 which I no longer have. My D810 does NOT allow aperture control from the camera.

I believe I am correct regarding the difference in aperture mechanisms between AI and AI-S and in stating that the lenses both work on the D810 but the lens aperture ring must be used to control the aperture.

Again - my apologies for my misstatement.
 
My AI-S 105/2.5 has rounded aperture blades. Perhaps the Nikon lens chart is incorrect or this was changed during the production history of this lens.

It is a really good lens and very compact too.
 
I believe I am correct regarding the difference in aperture mechanisms between AI and AI-S and in stating that the lenses both work on the D810 but the lens aperture ring must be used to control the aperture.
Quoting from Nikon USA :
The AIs lens was created when the aperture mechanism of the AI lens was changed to allow automatic aperture control, with cameras such as the FA and N2000. This modification means that the aperture increments of the AIS lens can be controlled more precisely by the camera.

Here's how the F-mount was originally designed to work. By setting an f-stop on the aperture ring, you controlled how far the lens stopped itself down when there was no tension on the aperture lever. When you mounted the lens, the camera held the aperture lever open until you either released the shutter or pressed the DOF lever. At that point, the camera would release the lever and the lens would stop down to the preset aperture.

That works great for M and A modes. It doesn't work for P or S mode where the camera has to choose the aperture for you. Instead, the camera would choose the point the lens would stop down to. With the exception of the new E lenses, that's how things still work when you use P or S mode or select the aperture on the camera instead of using an aperture ring.

But pre-AI-s Nikon lenses have a limitation. The action of the aperture lever wasn't linear and varied from lens to lens. For example, on my 50mm f/1.8 AI, the lever moves a lot more when stopping down from f/2 to f/2.8 than from f/2.8 to f/4. Without a CPU, the camera could only guess how much to allow the lens to stop down. So AI-s lenses were designed with a linear action, as are all modern Nikkors with CPU's.

As things turned out, though, Nikon only made a few models of cameras which supported P and/or S modes with non-CPU lenses. Those are the Nikon FG, FA, N2000/F301, and N2020/F501. With those models, if the camera detects a non AI-s lens in P or S mode, it will take a last-instant mirror-up meter reading and adjust the shutter speed to try to correct for the non-linearity. AI-s also had one more "trick." It had a focal length indexing ridge, by which the camera could mechanically detect an AI-s lens of 135mm or over. This allowed cameras to choose a different program for longer lenses. The Nikon F4 supposedly uses this feature, but I don't know how.

If you "chip" an AI-s lens, you can control it using the command dial (or dials) of a modern dSLR and it works as you'd expect of an AI-p lens. But if you "chip" an AI lens, the dSLR doesn't know about the non-linearity and you end up with the wrong exposure solution in all modes.

Complicated, confusing and obtuse? You bet. That's why Nikon gave up on supporting P and S modes for non-CPU lenses, starting with the N4004/F401 in 1987.

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Such commentary has become ubiquitous on the Internet and is widely perceived to carry no indicium of reliability and little weight. (Digital Media News v. Escape Media Group, May 2014).
 
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Re. difference between Ai and Ais this site has useful information.


I think the ais version also has a newer coating.

hope this helps.

Peter
 
In the old days, changing ISO meant finishing the film and putting a new one in. These days it is easier!

My preferred mode is manual shutter and aperture set on the lens ring, then let Auto ISO do the hard work (while keeping an eye that it is between 100 and 640 where possible)

I would recommend not worrying too much about AI or AIS for the 105mm f2.5. Both are great, though the newer age of the latter might favour it being in better condition.

Either way I would base a decision on condition of the glass and mechanics, trustworthiness of the vendor (do they do returns?) and price. I have the AI version and I have rarely felt the need for a lens hood, unlike some of my rather newer lenses!

I have bought some "well used" lenses with stickers and scuffs on. So long as they have been used with lens caps and the glass is completely clean, I don't care that much. In fact you can save some money, and worry less about chucking the lens in your pocket if it is already well-used.

I also concur that f2.5 on this lens is pretty good for MF on the current viewfinder screens (mine is a D600), unlike faster lenses.

In some cases, there was supposedly significant advance between AI and AIS versions, but not here.
 

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