A reluctant learner but understand it's probably time.

[gmacamera]

Hi,

I have put off trying to understand the various setting for video for several years, I have had a dabble here and there but pretty much used whatever the factory settings of what ever camera I had in my hand and this has more or less sufficed.

I have now come to the conclusion that I am missing out by not using video more frequently, I am currently embarking on understanding Da Vinci Resolve for editing, now I need to try and understand video on my Nikon Z8.

In summary I am looking for any recommendations for YouTube learning etc for video, ideally Nikon Z8 but I could do with understanding the effects of the various jargon associated with video, I understand that recent firmware has allowed for different video to photography settings on Z8 which sounds helpful.

I really I would like to be at a level where if asked I can shoot a decent video without stressing and have the knowledge to fix minor mistakes in edit.

Thank you

 

[anotherMike]

I hope a couple of the forum folks who do a lot of video with Z bodies like Andre Yew and Clint Gryke chime in - they are *well* worth listening to.

I can understand somewhere where you're coming from. I have an extremely deep and vast technical knowledge of still photography - borne from a few decades of doing this and a bachelors of science degree from RIT in photography, so while I'm probably in the top 1% of knowledge on the still side of things, I'm totally the opposite, maybe an "advanced beginner" at best, in the video world, so perhaps what I've learned so far might be of help.

I'll give you a couple of things to search for in youtube first since that's your question, before I go into what I've learned so far.

Editing

I've actually found the Davinci provided tutorials on editing to be quite helpful, if a bit long. Any other questions about something, I usually just google them. It's in the domain of color grading where my suggestions are far more specific...

Color Grading

1. Anything Cullen Kelly produces
2. Anything Darren Mostyn produces

I'd honestly ignore everyone except those two and if you hang with it - meaning, you're aware this is a longer learning curve than many of us might want to admit - you'll find everything you need with those two guys.

Item #1: It's a long, steep learning curve, and that's okay. Even if you know a lot about other things, it's best to admit to ones self that the world of video is just different, and at times complex.

What I've found so far - meaning as I do more, I learn more...

1. Ignore the temptation to shoot everything in 8K NRAW unless you're doing something extremely amazing and hyper important that you'll never do again. It's overkill for most everything. Shear overkill. I know a couple of people in video production professionally - that's what they do as their main job - and none of them ever shoot raw, even though their cinema and mirrorless cameras have that capability.
2. My suggestion - that may get overridden by Andre or Clint if they see this LOL, is to try and utilize these two things to start, and to learn how to deal with them.
   1. 4K/60 Prores 4.2.2 codec
   2. NLog instead of SDR for your color. This is "harder" because one has to learn/get used to dealing with log footage instead of what we're used to with our still cameras, but using Nlog gets you into the Rec 2020 color space (wider color gamut) and has more dynamic range than SDR. Forum member Horshack has done some nice videos on dealing with NLOG, and I strongly suggest you search for those as well as the two guys mentioned earlier.
   3. Leave HDR for the future when you know the basics really, really well.
3. Don't skimp on CFE cards, Seriously. Skip the garbage, skip the cheap. Most problems people have with drop outs or other issues are cards that are not up to the task. I use the prograde digital cobalt cards myself; mostly these have been upgraded to the new Irridium cards, but one can still find the cobalts at the major photo stores in NYC. I've never had a video issue with these cards.
4. When you get into color grading in Davinci
   1. Again, check the two guys mentioned earlier
   2. Try to wrap your head around the concept of nodes, and how they can occur in different "places" (at different levels, as in - at the clip level, at the timeline level, or even at a group level) - and pay attention to the videos where that is discussed.
   3. Try to wrap your head around CSTs for your color management - again, see the videos from those two guys, but in Nikon land, I prefer the CST (Color Space Transform) approach over the Nikon provided LUTS, even though the last technical LUT from Nikon after they purchased Red is way better than the original. This will take some time to understand/learn, but well worth the effort.
   4. Really try to understand what the various monitors (waveform, etc) are telling you - so you can see where adjustments need to be made, and where color casts exist that need to be addressed.
5. During shooting, try to keep at 180 degree shutter angle (the last Z8 firmware update allows this to be set in shutter angle as opposed to photo shutter speed terminology), and get your white balance correct as best you can. Sure - if you ignore my earlier advice and rush off to shoot 8K NRAW for everything, you can change it, but the guys I've talked to suggest learning how to get this right so you don't have to rely on the crutch of NRAW.

Overall, while I don't expect to be a video expert, my advice is "have fun". On my last big landscape trip, I devoted half of the time to still photography, and the other half to video, mostly just to challenge my brain to think differently, which also means to grow. As one gets older, particularly if they know a lot about one thing, it's common to get obstinate and bull headed, and I think challenging oneself to learn new things is hugely important.

Good luck!

 

[Andre Yew]

Mike's given you really good advice already, but since he mentioned me, I guess I should toss in my 2 cents. First, what kinds of things do you want to shoot with video? That will be helpful in steering you in the right direction.

Second, just go out there and start shooting. You'll make mistakes, but you'll be learning and figuring out how video works for you. We all have our own ways of doing things, but it's easier to try something out, and see what works for you. We can give you better advice after you start running into problems for the way you like to shoot. I started out shooting video on my D810 and D500, as well as a Sony NEX-5N, and learned a lot that way.

Third, I lean more towards documentary work than narrative (ie. your traditional movie), so I got lots of useful information from Mark Bone and Griffin Hammond on YouTube. Griffin hasn't posted in a while, but what is up is still very useful. Both filmmakers talk a little about the technical stuff, which you should be able to pick up in a week or two, but emphasize the story aspect of videos more, which will help you make better videos whether you're using a phone or a Z8.

The Z8 is very capable camera, but you should not worry about trying to use every feature on it or pushing it to its max performance envelope initially. Just find a comfortable workflow that you can execute consistently and grow from. For example, I'd avoid Nlog for now and use the Flat picture profile, which is underrated and very good.

You should not do anything that requires more than trivial amounts of color grading. That's for later. Use h.265, 4k, and 10-bit, and don't even think about raw video. I like to shoot at 24FPS, but other people like 30 (especially if you upload to YouTube) or even 60. Try them out and see what works for how you view and share your videos.

Many things like composition, exposure, and WB carry over from the stills side, so make sure you are solid on those. Getting exposure and WB correct will do more for the technical quality of your video than almost anything else. Shooting video is like shooting JPEG: you must get it right in-camera, because there is not much latitude for correction later on. You can make small moves, but nothing big. Learning to set a custom WB is an important skill.

Basically, since you're new to video, think about your basics first: those are the things that are applicable to any video camera. After you get comfortable with that, you can start adding more technical things like Nlog or raw as a way to enhance what you know how to do well already. Don't start with the technical stuff and try to find your workflow that way.

Good luck and have fun! Also buy lots of storage for your computer.

P.S. Nikon have some decent videos on setting up your camera. This is for the Z9, but it should be identical for the Z8:

You don't need the external microphone initially, and their setting for 2160/60 resolution/frame rate is fine to start with. As you learn more, you can alter the setup to better suit your needs. The key with learning something completely new to you is to find some consistent way to perform that activity so that you can make small incremental changes to it without messing yourself up and keep your learning curve up instead of confusing and frustrating yourself.

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

I just really started doing some video last year, in Little Cayman. I had help in the form of instructors to learn video post-processing. The learning curve was substantial.

I learned Adobe Premier Pro because that was what the instructors were teaching. I can tell you right now that a good video is all about editing in the end. But you don't need to master a lot of new tools all at once. It's overwhelming. Just start with a simple idea, and make it more complex as you go.

Which brings me to a point. Video is about telling a story, so you need to have a story in mind before you go out shooting. And you'll eventually want specific types of shots (wide intro, over-the-shoulder, etc). With video, it's also all about motion. If the camera isn't moving, then the subject needs to be, or why video? Then, at least for me shooting underwater, camera movements are big issue.

It may help to see how a beginner (me) progressed over the period of a week. I was diving twice a day in the morning, and I used some footage (?) from each day to make a couple of short learning videos. I started with basically nothing, though later I at least added a title and comment or two - I didn't learn how to add a title or comment until day 2.

Each day I made two more shorts adding something new - title, comments, music, fades, color correction, etc. I learned how to do it as I went, but again, I also had some help with instructors. (I did the bulk of these videos after I got home, while I did one long one at the event I was at).

I suggest this sort of bit-by-bit approach. The story here is you learning to shoot a video, with the editing you want. So what you shoot isn't all that important - it's the changes that make the story.

Here's the progression, in a Youtube playlist. (Best to watch in 4k).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7vUkbCutc&list=PLjzzDGGtHPrG6JqoVva0nm2J0frydtq6Fhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7vUkbCutc&list=PLjzzDGGtHPrG6JqoVva0nm2J0frydtq6F

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

I Learn To Shoot Underwater Video

I spent nine days over two weeks in Little Cayman leaning how to shoot video underwater with my Nikon Z9. 21 dives in total. I also spent hours learning to d...

www.youtube.com

Hopefully I got the right link this time.

 

[Bill Ferris]

No matter the level of mastery you achieve on the technical side of video, it won't make much difference if you don't invest the time to learn how to tell stories with video.

It's not as difficult as you might think. There are talented storytellers whose work is available on YouTube, Netflix and other digital content platforms. They may not know it but they're your mentors.

When you find someone whose work captivates you, consume it with the eye of a critic. Who is their audience? How do they structure the story for that audience? How do they establish a topic or theme in a manner that captures your interest? How do they develop the story in a way that maintains your interest. What's the payoff and is it satisfying?

If you're a good storyteller, your audience will forgive the occasional technical fumble. But no amount of technical mastery will overcome poor storytelling.

Good luck.

 

[Suntan]

I will just add, take time to get abasic understanding from YouTube, but then go shoot and try to create something. You will learn what questions to overcome much faster.

And don't just record the same clip of your bookshelf, taken from your couch, in every different setting then expect to uncover the differences based on reviewing the played-back footage. Go actually try to accomplish something, even if it is something as simple as trying to make a quarter-interesting video compilation of the flowers in your wife's flowerbed. At least then you will start to ask yourself, "How do I achieve this?" Or, "How do I prevent that?"

 

[gmacamera]

I hope a couple of the forum folks who do a lot of video with Z bodies like Andre Yew and Clint Gryke chime in - they are *well* worth listening to.

I can understand somewhere where you're coming from. I have an extremely deep and vast technical knowledge of still photography - borne from a few decades of doing this and a bachelors of science degree from RIT in photography, so while I'm probably in the top 1% of knowledge on the still side of things, I'm totally the opposite, maybe an "advanced beginner" at best, in the video world, so perhaps what I've learned so far might be of help.

I'll give you a couple of things to search for in youtube first since that's your question, before I go into what I've learned so far.

Editing

I've actually found the Davinci provided tutorials on editing to be quite helpful, if a bit long. Any other questions about something, I usually just google them. It's in the domain of color grading where my suggestions are far more specific...

Color Grading

1. Anything Cullen Kelly produces
2. Anything Darren Mostyn produces

I'd honestly ignore everyone except those two and if you hang with it - meaning, you're aware this is a longer learning curve than many of us might want to admit - you'll find everything you need with those two guys.

Item #1: It's a long, steep learning curve, and that's okay. Even if you know a lot about other things, it's best to admit to ones self that the world of video is just different, and at times complex.

What I've found so far - meaning as I do more, I learn more...

1. Ignore the temptation to shoot everything in 8K NRAW unless you're doing something extremely amazing and hyper important that you'll never do again. It's overkill for most everything. Shear overkill. I know a couple of people in video production professionally - that's what they do as their main job - and none of them ever shoot raw, even though their cinema and mirrorless cameras have that capability.
2. My suggestion - that may get overridden by Andre or Clint if they see this LOL, is to try and utilize these two things to start, and to learn how to deal with them.
   1. 4K/60 Prores 4.2.2 codec
   2. NLog instead of SDR for your color. This is "harder" because one has to learn/get used to dealing with log footage instead of what we're used to with our still cameras, but using Nlog gets you into the Rec 2020 color space (wider color gamut) and has more dynamic range than SDR. Forum member Horshack has done some nice videos on dealing with NLOG, and I strongly suggest you search for those as well as the two guys mentioned earlier.
   3. Leave HDR for the future when you know the basics really, really well.
3. Don't skimp on CFE cards, Seriously. Skip the garbage, skip the cheap. Most problems people have with drop outs or other issues are cards that are not up to the task. I use the prograde digital cobalt cards myself; mostly these have been upgraded to the new Irridium cards, but one can still find the cobalts at the major photo stores in NYC. I've never had a video issue with these cards.
4. When you get into color grading in Davinci
   1. Again, check the two guys mentioned earlier
   2. Try to wrap your head around the concept of nodes, and how they can occur in different "places" (at different levels, as in - at the clip level, at the timeline level, or even at a group level) - and pay attention to the videos where that is discussed.
   3. Try to wrap your head around CSTs for your color management - again, see the videos from those two guys, but in Nikon land, I prefer the CST (Color Space Transform) approach over the Nikon provided LUTS, even though the last technical LUT from Nikon after they purchased Red is way better than the original. This will take some time to understand/learn, but well worth the effort.
   4. Really try to understand what the various monitors (waveform, etc) are telling you - so you can see where adjustments need to be made, and where color casts exist that need to be addressed.
5. During shooting, try to keep at 180 degree shutter angle (the last Z8 firmware update allows this to be set in shutter angle as opposed to photo shutter speed terminology), and get your white balance correct as best you can. Sure - if you ignore my earlier advice and rush off to shoot 8K NRAW for everything, you can change it, but the guys I've talked to suggest learning how to get this right so you don't have to rely on the crutch of NRAW.

Overall, while I don't expect to be a video expert, my advice is "have fun". On my last big landscape trip, I devoted half of the time to still photography, and the other half to video, mostly just to challenge my brain to think differently, which also means to grow. As one gets older, particularly if they know a lot about one thing, it's common to get obstinate and bull headed, and I think challenging oneself to learn new things is hugely important.

Good luck!

Thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed and helpful response, it is very much appreciated.

 

[gmacamera]

Thank you for such a great response, I am looking forward kinda, to actually getting stuck into this.

 

[gmacamera]

Brilliant thank for this and for taking the time to post.

 

[gmacamera]

No matter the level of mastery you achieve on the technical side of video, it won't make much difference if you don't invest the time to learn how to tell stories with video.

It's not as difficult as you might think. There are talented storytellers whose work is available on YouTube, Netflix and other digital content platforms. They may not know it but they're your mentors.

When you find someone whose work captivates you, consume it with the eye of a critic. Who is their audience? How do they structure the story for that audience? How do they establish a topic or theme in a manner that captures your interest? How do they develop the story in a way that maintains your interest. What's the payoff and is it satisfying?

If you're a good storyteller, your audience will forgive the occasional technical fumble. But no amount of technical mastery will overcome poor storytelling.

Good luck.

So very true and duly noted, thank for taking the time to respond.

 

[gmacamera]

Thank you its great advice, I will go out and try not to get bogged down initially till I find my way.