GPS support with m43 cameras

[Dave Oddie]

Hi,

I am looking to replace my aging Sony A77 sometime this year and one of the reasons I held onto it for so long is the built in GPS. I know these days few cameras have this and those that have any GPS support at all typically rely on linking to a smart phone app.

I have such a cameras myself in a Sony RX100VII. After an update to the phone app this has proved reliable and accurate (much to my surprise) using my old Android OnePlus 5 phone and the app and camera tag the photos in real time.

If Sony bring out an A7 iV with the same support I could go that route and be confident the GPS will work but I really am not a big fan of FF and the large size of lenses like the 24-105 zoom that results (and I am not keen on the form factor of the APSC offerings).

Can someone explain to me how you can geotag photos within the M43 system? I am looking at the OLYMPUS OM-D E-M1 MK III as a potential replacement and having looked at the manual I am a bit confused as to how geotagging works.

If I understood it correctly the Oly app creates a GPS log on the phone and then later you do it the "old fashioned" way of adding the GPS data to the photos based on time taken. Is that correct? If so do people find it reliable and workable?

I have not really considered the Panasonic cameras but if they do real time geotagging similar to my Sony RX100 it might be time to take a look so any feedback on how it works with the Panasonic cameras would be appreciated.

 

[Jack Tingle]

I looked at my M10 II manual & the process is as you described. It's done through Ol.Share.

I suggest you download the Mark III manual & check that camera.

 

[Enders Shadow]

If I understood it correctly the Oly app creates a GPS log on the phone and then later you do it the "old fashioned" way of adding the GPS data to the photos based on time taken. Is that correct? If so do people find it reliable and workable?

I have not really considered the Panasonic cameras but if they do real time geotagging similar to my Sony RX100 it might be time to take a look so any feedback on how it works with the Panasonic cameras would be appreciated.

It's not exactly the "old fashioned" way where the GPS data is added in post. You use OI.Track app on your phone to first sync the camera and phone clocks. This is done over a WiFi connection. Once that is done, the WiFi connection is dropped and the OI.Track app starts generating a GPS log. When you're done shooting for the day, you reconnect phone and camera. OI.Track uploads the location log to the camera and the camera tags the pictures covered by the duration of the log. I find the process 100% reliable.

I don't like live tagging as it requires a Bluetooth connection to be active when a picture is taken. When the camera goes to sleep or is turned off, the connection is broken. It can be a little slow and not always reliable to reconnect when the camera is turned back on. Nikon uses Bluetooth LE and maintains the connection even when the camera is switched off. I've found Nikon's live tagging method to be reliable.

The only issue with the Olympus tagging method is some people struggle connecting the camera with WiFi. This almost always has to do with the phone already having a connection to a WiFi network. You need to have a process to connect and maintain the WiFi connection to the camera during the file transfer. This has never been a issue for me.

As I use multiple brands of cameras, I use that so called "old fashion" method. I create a GPX log on my phone or handheld GPS. The images are tagged in post. It's a process that only requires a few mouse clicks and is independent of any specific camera app. I also have a complete location log of the day, even when not talking pictures.

--
Phil

 

[OMDiver]

The EM1X has GPS built in, as does the TG series. OM is teasing a “wow” camera this year so hopefully gps finally makes it to a smaller mirrorless. I’d rather have it built in but have been mostly successful with the EM1iii and OITrack.

The toughest part is remembering to open the app and start a track log every time. They recommend you wifi to the camera and sync the time before each use as well, but as long as the camera clock hasn’t drifted or crossed time zones, I’ve had no issues transferring a track to the camera.

Link phone to camera via wifi, select the track file on the phone, and swipe to add geo info to the camera. After a few minutes, you get a message with how many frames were tagged and those photos will show up with a satellite icon on the camera LCD. There is no way to adjust for a few minutes or hours out of sync in the app, but it does copy a track log to the camera SD that should be usable with third party software.

 

[Dave Oddie]

The toughest part is remembering to open the app and start a track log every time. They recommend you wifi to the camera and sync the time before each use as well, but as long as the camera clock hasn’t drifted or crossed time zones, I’ve had no issues transferring a track to the camera.

That is probably what I would forget. The Sony app is constantly running on my phone and when I turn the RX100 on it connects and is very reliable at doing so.

I don't have to resync the clocks each time I use it either. This is also a function of the connection.

Link phone to camera via wifi, select the track file on the phone, and swipe to add geo info to the camera. After a few minutes, you get a message with how many frames were tagged and those photos will show up with a satellite icon on the camera LCD. There is no way to adjust for a few minutes or hours out of sync in the app, but it does copy a track log to the camera SD that should be usable with third party software.

OK, thanks for the info.

 

[Dave Oddie]

If I understood it correctly the Oly app creates a GPS log on the phone and then later you do it the "old fashioned" way of adding the GPS data to the photos based on time taken. Is that correct? If so do people find it reliable and workable?

I have not really considered the Panasonic cameras but if they do real time geotagging similar to my Sony RX100 it might be time to take a look so any feedback on how it works with the Panasonic cameras would be appreciated.

It's not exactly the "old fashioned" way where the GPS data is added in post. You use OI.Track app on your phone to first sync the camera and phone clocks. This is done over a WiFi connection. Once that is done, the WiFi connection is dropped and the OI.Track app starts generating a GPS log. When you're done shooting for the day, you reconnect phone and camera. OI.Track uploads the location log to the camera and the camera tags the pictures covered by the duration of the log. I find the process 100% reliable.

I don't like live tagging as it requires a Bluetooth connection to be active when a picture is taken. When the camera goes to sleep or is turned off, the connection is broken. It can be a little slow and not always reliable to reconnect when the camera is turned back on. Nikon uses Bluetooth LE and maintains the connection even when the camera is switched off. I've found Nikon's live tagging method to be reliable.

The only issue with the Olympus tagging method is some people struggle connecting the camera with WiFi. This almost always has to do with the phone already having a connection to a WiFi network. You need to have a process to connect and maintain the WiFi connection to the camera during the file transfer. This has never been a issue for me.

As I use multiple brands of cameras, I use that so called "old fashion" method. I create a GPX log on my phone or handheld GPS. The images are tagged in post. It's a process that only requires a few mouse clicks and is independent of any specific camera app. I also have a complete location log of the day, even when not talking pictures.

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. When I first got the RX100 I had the issue you describe of the Bluetooth not reconnecting if I switched the cameras off and on. I ended up carrying my Garmin Oregon 7 to record a GPX log as a back up but since the Sony app was updated this issue has been fixed and the connection is re-established quickly. Nikon seems to have thought this through the best.

Tagging in post obviously works but I'd be afraid of losing my GPX log if I didn't force myself to post process the images promptly which sometimes is the case.

If you prefer to do this for reasons you state that is obviously fine but camera makers seem to be going backwards over GPS with so few including it and tagging in post is yet another step.

 

[Jack Tingle]

If you prefer to do this for reasons you state that is obviously fine but camera makers seem to be going backwards over GPS with so few including it and tagging in post is yet another step.

There were some bad implementations a few years back (cough, Canon, cough) that were battery hogs. At the time phones were better.

 

[Dave Oddie]

If you prefer to do this for reasons you state that is obviously fine but camera makers seem to be going backwards over GPS with so few including it and tagging in post is yet another step.

There were some bad implementations a few years back (cough, Canon, cough) that were battery hogs. At the time phones were better.

My Sony A77 never suffered from battery drain due to GPS. It's switched on permanently on my A77 and I can go all day on one battery.

In contrast I have had phones that as soon as you turn location services on the battery life drops through the floor. This was one of my concerns with using a phone based GPS tagging app. So far I have not had an issue using my phone with the RX100 but it's only a matter of time before I leave the house having forgotten to charge the phone up sufficiently. With a camera you can always (and I suspect most people do) carry a spare battery or two.

 

[Enders Shadow]

Tagging in post obviously works but I'd be afraid of losing my GPX log if I didn't force myself to post process the images promptly which sometimes is the case.

Losing log files? Many GPS logger apps can automatically upload to cloud based storage. The files are usually visible on my computers within seconds of closing the logger on my phone. For my handheld GPS, I can upload the files to my phone that will then sync to the cloud. I usually only do that when away from home for a extended period.

If you prefer to do this for reasons you state that is obviously fine but camera makers seem to be going backwards over GPS with so few including it and tagging in post is yet another step.

Manufacturers have phased out built-in GPS systems as they determined extremely few people used them. Also, with small cameras like your RX100, there's no place left to locate the antenna. Some of my cameras do have built-in GPS. But I still prefer running a separate log. The exception is my TG-3 which is often used in conditions where my phone isn't likely to be around.

Yeah, tagging in post is a extra step. Select the directories with the downloaded images then select the appropriate log file(s). Finally click run. Really difficult process.

 

[Dave Oddie]

I wasn’t suggesting as camera as small as the RX100 should have a built in GPS antenna. I was just using that as an example of a smart phone based GPS tagging mechanism that works better then i thought it would.

I am interested in how GPS works on what would be my main camera replacing the A77.

I don’t think it matters how easy it is to tag post processing or use an app like with the Sony and a smart phone I think it’s been a backward step removing GPS from cameras.

Also if manufacturers think it’s not used which is why they removed it, why bother going to al. the trouble of developing an app that GPS tags and the the software and protocol is the camera to tag the photos in real time or after the event like the Oly solution? Seems to be a lot of trouble to go to for something they think few people use.

 

[Barry Twycross]

I don't know about those Olympus cameras, I shoot Panasonic, and I tend to do it in post.

The latest generation of Panasonic cameras do BlueTooth, and they can pair to a smartphone and geotag from the phone as the picture is taken. For that to work, you need to make sure the camera connects to the phone before you start taking pictures. You can see the BlueTooth icon goes from grey to white. I never notice that, and the connection is a bit flaky, and can be a bit slow. If it does work, the first few pictures may not be geotagged.

The previous generations, without BlueTooth could accept a download from the Panasonic "Image App" (smartphone app). You could then go and write the geotags to the stored images in camera. That was slow, for a full card the geotagging could take anything up to an hour, and has to be done on battery. it basically has to rewrite every picture with a new version with the right exif tag.

As I said, I now do it in post. I run Gaia GPS on my iPhone to get GPS tracks, and use HoudahGeo on my Mac to geotag the files. I tend to only geotag the files I select for further use, otherwise, it'd take an hour to tag all the photos I shot in a day. If I want to tag further photos I can go find the geotag track files, and tag from there.

 

[rienm]

I found out that my battery drains quickly using WiFi with my EM-1 mk III. Can you stop the WiFi after the first sync with the OI-share app??

 

[kaphinga]

I gave up on the OI.Share app a while back. Now I use an iPhone app called "GPS Tracks." I just click "Start" at the beginning of the session, and at the end of the session I export a GPX file that I then link up with either Lightroom or Photo Mechanic. It's not ideal, but it works.

 

[robgendreau]

The toughest part is remembering to open the app and start a track log every time. They recommend you wifi to the camera and sync the time before each use as well, but as long as the camera clock hasn’t drifted or crossed time zones, I’ve had no issues transferring a track to the camera.

That is probably what I would forget. The Sony app is constantly running on my phone and when I turn the RX100 on it connects and is very reliable at doing so.

I don't have to resync the clocks each time I use it either. This is also a function of the connection.

Link phone to camera via wifi, select the track file on the phone, and swipe to add geo info to the camera. After a few minutes, you get a message with how many frames were tagged and those photos will show up with a satellite icon on the camera LCD. There is no way to adjust for a few minutes or hours out of sync in the app, but it does copy a track log to the camera SD that should be usable with third party software.

OK, thanks for the info.

I just start the tracking. I often track hikes using GaiaGPS as well, or log them in a journaling app, or start a timer on a watch, so starting the OI app is pretty standard for me. I don't synch the time first. Doesn't seem to matter.

It's pretty accurate and easy to do. Just make the wifi connection to the camera after the shoot, synch, and done.

 

[robgendreau]

I found out that my battery drains quickly using WiFi with my EM-1 mk III. Can you stop the WiFi after the first sync with the OI-share app??

Yes, It only takes a minute or so to geotag like hundreds of images. Not sure what you mean by "first" synch. I just do it once at the end of a hike or shoot.

 

[Chris DC]

Dave

I have the EM1X. It has a real GPS receiver built in answer it works. Location data is saved with every image and this includes direction that the camera is facing.
No extra apps or hardware are needed. Indeed, the camera tends to be underrated fir what it can do.



CDC

 

[Dave Oddie]

I am sure it's a great camera but too large for my requirements. I was disappointed the OM-D E-M1 Mark III didn't have GPS given it came out after the M1X. Had it done so I'd have probably switched by now.

 

[Dave Oddie]

The latest generation of Panasonic cameras do BlueTooth, and they can pair to a smartphone and geotag from the phone as the picture is taken. For that to work, you need to make sure the camera connects to the phone before you start taking pictures. You can see the BlueTooth icon goes from grey to white. I never notice that, and the connection is a bit flaky, and can be a bit slow. If it does work, the first few pictures may not be geotagged.

That sounds similar to the Sony and Nikon systems. My experience with the Sony is it works well and better than I thought it would. From what was posted earlier the Nikon system which maintains the connection via low energy Bluetooth with the camera powered off also sounds good.

It's all about reliability really and while several manufacturers adopt similar approaches I can find little about how reliable the systems are, hence the question. DPR never test this functionality and I can't say I have seen it mentioned on other review sites.

 

[Bassam Guy]

If I understood it correctly the Oly app creates a GPS log on the phone and then later you do it the "old fashioned" way of adding the GPS data to the photos based on time taken. Is that correct? If so do people find it reliable and workable?

I have not really considered the Panasonic cameras but if they do real time geotagging similar to my Sony RX100 it might be time to take a look so any feedback on how it works with the Panasonic cameras would be appreciated.

It's not exactly the "old fashioned" way where the GPS data is added in post. You use OI.Track app on your phone to first sync the camera and phone clocks. This is done over a WiFi connection. Once that is done, the WiFi connection is dropped and the OI.Track app starts generating a GPS log. When you're done shooting for the day, you reconnect phone and camera. OI.Track uploads the location log to the camera and the camera tags the pictures covered by the duration of the log. I find the process 100% reliable.

I don't like live tagging as it requires a Bluetooth connection to be active when a picture is taken. When the camera goes to sleep or is turned off, the connection is broken. It can be a little slow and not always reliable to reconnect when the camera is turned back on. Nikon uses Bluetooth LE and maintains the connection even when the camera is switched off. I've found Nikon's live tagging method to be reliable.

The only issue with the Olympus tagging method is some people struggle connecting the camera with WiFi. This almost always has to do with the phone already having a connection to a WiFi network. You need to have a process to connect and maintain the WiFi connection to the camera during the file transfer. This has never been a issue for me.

As I use multiple brands of cameras, I use that so called "old fashion" method. I create a GPX log on my phone or handheld GPS. The images are tagged in post. It's a process that only requires a few mouse clicks and is independent of any specific camera app. I also have a complete location log of the day, even when not talking pictures.

...or if O.I Share consumes too much battery. Google already tracks me wherever I go, so every few months, I synch my location history via LightRoom.

Google maps

• Click = Hamburger menu
• Click "Your Data in Maps"
• Click Download your Maps data
• Click Location History
• Click JSON Format, and change to KML
• (uncheck Maps (your places) and My Maps)
• Click Next Step
• Check/uncheck desired options
• Click Create Archive
• (should complete within a couple minutes)
• Download & unzip
• Convert archive to a common format that LR understands: gpx. I use GPSBabel.

(LR Pukes with more than ~3 months of data (truncates @50,000 Points))

• Select all the photos you want to tag
• Go to LR Map module. To the right of the lock icon there's a ~ GPS Tracklogs icon.
• Click the icon and Load Tracklog…
• Apply tracklog to selected photos

This is usually pretty accurate but I do ride my bike a lot along wooded areas of the VA side of the Potomac River, and sometimes my phone's location is shown across the river in MD.

 

[NoTx]

I would watch this...