RX10 IV custom settings revisited

[AlwynS]

Or: When manual isn't

Some of you may recall that in the far distant past I created a thread on custom settings for the RX10 IV HERE . And for the past 2 years+ I have pretty much stuck with the latest revisions in that post.

Until today.

What drives one to make changes this far down the road you might ask? Well, in this case it started with a friend and fellow RX10 IV photographer sending me an e-mail with a question about shutter speed in the "Auto ISO" settings. In practice it gives SOME control but really not much: you can select a fixed shutter speed (not ideal) or Shutter speed slower, slow, normal or faster. But while helpful, those are really not very powerful or specific.

In the e-mail thread discussing this, my brother (a Panasonic FZ1000 user) asked but why not define both Aperture and shutter speed (which was what we were debating) and using Auto ISO. To which I responded: you can't! You can use Aperture mode (in which you control the aperture and lightly influence shutter speed with Auto ISO settings), you can use Shutter speed mode (in which you control the shutter speed and the rest is lightly influenced) or Manual, in which case case you have to fix everything because (as I thought), you cannot use Auto ISO because that is not a manual setting.

But that set me to thinking: is that REALLY the case? I checked... and no, that is NOT the case! It turns out that in Manual, you CAN use Auto ISO with upper and lower limits! Who'da thunk it? That was not what I was expecting in Manual hence I never even looked! Classic case of man with faulty parachute jump to conclusion....

So: now my BIF settings are stored in M1 as:

Manual mode

Shutter speed 1/2000th

F4

Auto ISO, lower limit 100, upper limit 3200 (this one will likely attract some comments)

Wide AF, continuous

Center metering (pretty much accepting that I almost invariably using some EC)

High burst rate

And my PERCHED BIRDS settings are stored in M2 as:

Manual mode

Shutter speed 1/1000th

F4

Auto ISO, lower limit 100, upper limit 1600

Small Flexible Spot AF, continuous

Spot metering

Medium burst rate

In both cases it it dead simple and almost instantaneous to change any of aperture (on the lens, duh!), shutter speed (with the control dial) and ISO (with the control wheel).

I have programmed these approximate settings to Custom Hold 1 and 2 as well. I normally walk around with the camera in the MR1 position (BIF) because these are the opportunities that tend to give you the least warning and opportunity to get the shot. As a consequence, Focus Hold 2 (Perched birds) is the Hold I use most often. Because that it the most commonly used I used to have my Perched bird Custom Hold setting programmed to the Focus Hold button on the lens as I thought that was the most convenient. However: I have recently come to the conclusion that I can better control the camera while pressing the AEL button while shooting rather than the Focus Hold button. So I have now mapped Custom Hold 2 (perched birds) to the AEL button and Custom Hold 1 (BIF) to the Focus Hold button.

Not really huge changes but hopefully some incremental improvements. I will be trying these settings for the next little while and report back how it works out for me in practice.

 

[Holmes375]

And it maintains the ability to adjust exposure via the EC dial. Not all cameras allow this when shooting in manual/auto ISO.

 

[IndianEye]

Interesting, I'm going to try this! Can you please share some photos or steps on how to set up recall custom hold so it switches between the 1 and 2 at the press of a button. I tried to figure it out but ended up writing the current settings to a custom hold slot whenever I pressed the focus hold button I assigned.

 

[Horacecoker]

Or: When manual isn't

Some of you may recall that in the far distant past I created a thread on custom settings for the RX10 IV HERE . And for the past 2 years+ I have pretty much stuck with the latest revisions in that post.

Until today.

What drives one to make changes this far down the road you might ask? Well, in this case it started with a friend and fellow RX10 IV photographer sending me an e-mail with a question about shutter speed in the "Auto ISO" settings. In practice it gives SOME control but really not much: you can select a fixed shutter speed (not ideal) or Shutter speed slower, slow, normal or faster. But while helpful, those are really not very powerful or specific.

In the e-mail thread discussing this, my brother (a Panasonic FZ1000 user) asked but why not define both Aperture and shutter speed (which was what we were debating) and using Auto ISO. To which I responded: you can't! You can use Aperture mode (in which you control the aperture and lightly influence shutter speed with Auto ISO settings), you can use Shutter speed mode (in which you control the shutter speed and the rest is lightly influenced) or Manual, in which case case you have to fix everything because (as I thought), you cannot use Auto ISO because that is not a manual setting.

But that set me to thinking: is that REALLY the case? I checked... and no, that is NOT the case! It turns out that in Manual, you CAN use Auto ISO with upper and lower limits! Who'da thunk it? That was not what I was expecting in Manual hence I never even looked! Classic case of man with faulty parachute jump to conclusion....

So: now my BIF settings are stored in M1 as:

Manual mode

Shutter speed 1/2000th

F4

Auto ISO, lower limit 100, upper limit 3200 (this one will likely attract some comments)

Wide AF, continuous

Center metering (pretty much accepting that I almost invariably using some EC)

High burst rate

And my PERCHED BIRDS settings are stored in M2 as:

Manual mode

Shutter speed 1/1000th

F4

Auto ISO, lower limit 100, upper limit 1600

Small Flexible Spot AF, continuous

Spot metering

Medium burst rate

In both cases it it dead simple and almost instantaneous to change any of aperture (on the lens, duh!), shutter speed (with the control dial) and ISO (with the control wheel).

I have programmed these approximate settings to Custom Hold 1 and 2 as well. I normally walk around with the camera in the MR1 position (BIF) because these are the opportunities that tend to give you the least warning and opportunity to get the shot. As a consequence, Focus Hold 2 (Perched birds) is the Hold I use most often. Because that it the most commonly used I used to have my Perched bird Custom Hold setting programmed to the Focus Hold button on the lens as I thought that was the most convenient. However: I have recently come to the conclusion that I can better control the camera while pressing the AEL button while shooting rather than the Focus Hold button. So I have now mapped Custom Hold 2 (perched birds) to the AEL button and Custom Hold 1 (BIF) to the Focus Hold button.

Not really huge changes but hopefully some incremental improvements. I will be trying these settings for the next little while and report back how it works out for me in practice.

Food for thought indeed Alwyn, I going to try it. I knew about manual mode allowing auto ISO (most modern cameras do) but never thought to make use of it. Very dubious regards 3200 ISO for BIF, I will stick to 1600 for both perched and BIF but even 1600 is a stop more than I would normally allow the ISO to go up to on a 1" sensor camera. For me, it might be a case of biting the bullet and splashing out on DXO PL to get my hands on Deep Prime. There's no getting round the fact that by shooting at 1600 ISO you are in effect underexposing by 4 stops and that doesn't just produce excessive noise. It robs the image of detail and reduces the dynamic range and even degrades the colours somewhat. But, as Nigel as proved time and time again, Deep Prime works wonders on really noisy images. I'm also going to try 1/500 shutter speed for perched birds and 1/1000 for BIF to start with.

Thanks for giving me this huge nudge.

 

[Digital Nigel]

Food for thought indeed Alwyn, I going to try it. I knew about manual mode allowing auto ISO (most modern cameras do) but never thought to make use of it.

Yes, Sony has allowed Auto ISO in Manual mode for many years now. The original RX100 in 2012 didn't have it, but I think it came soon after. For example, the original RX10 (introduced in 2013) has it, as Elliott reported here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3596601#forum-post-52772944

Very dubious regards 3200 ISO for BIF, I will stick to 1600 for both perched and BIF but even 1600 is a stop more than I would normally allow the ISO to go up to on a 1" sensor camera. For me, it might be a case of biting the bullet and splashing out on DXO PL to get my hands on Deep Prime.

I'm sure the next DxO 30% sale will be along soon...

There's no getting round the fact that by shooting at 1600 ISO you are in effect underexposing by 4 stops and that doesn't just produce excessive noise. It robs the image of detail and reduces the dynamic range and even degrades the colours somewhat. But, as Nigel as proved time and time again, Deep Prime works wonders on really noisy images. I'm also going to try 1/500 shutter speed for perched birds and 1/1000 for BIF to start with.

Thanks for giving me this huge nudge.

 

[GilaSki]

I have a related question if anyone's able to give me a little guidance.

I'd like my RX10M4 lens to zoom to its fullest 600mm focal length when using a custom button (e.g., Focus Hold or AEL) when switching from my perched birds setting (which I have in Memory Recall 1) to my BIF settings (in MR 2). Then, when I let off of the custom button after taking my BIF shots, the lens will retract to the settings I have for perched birds.

I've tried many configurations and read lots of posts on this forum about custom settings, but for the life of me I haven't figured this one out yet. Maybe the answer for my inability to set my camera up in this way is it's not possible, but I thought I'd ask to see if any of you might be able to provide me some guidance on this.

Thanks, Alwyn, for your posting this update on your custom settings; very much appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Rusty D]

Using auto-ISO in Manual has been my preferred mode for birds and wildlife.

F4 is wide open at 600 mm. So I don't worry about aperture unless I am shooting into the sun or otherwise need a tighter aperture.

It is an interesting question - what drives one to make changes to habitual settings. Often just wanting to try out what is suggested here or attempting a different sort of subject (night sky recently).

I look forward to being able to get out to take more pictures. We got a rescue dog this summer who needs lots and lots of exercise and training. I have not had the energy to go out on my own to bird since we got him. He does like being photographed and I have fun using our photo shoots as part of training him. He is busy and fast and nosey so I have to clean his nose prints off the UV filter on the lens - who knew that would be the best reason to use it.

Here is one I used for a Valentine's day 'card.'

I know I rarely post, but I read posts here almost daily and am grateful to this group for advice and inspiration.

 

[AlwynS]

And it maintains the ability to adjust exposure via the EC dial. Not all cameras allow this when shooting in manual/auto ISO.

Ah yes, this was a very important consideration for me as I frequently photograph dark birds (think Bald Eagles) against a bright sky: EC is essential!!!

 

[AlwynS]

Interesting, I'm going to try this! Can you please share some photos or steps on how to set up recall custom hold so it switches between the 1 and 2 at the press of a button. I tried to figure it out but ended up writing the current settings to a custom hold slot whenever I pressed the focus hold button I assigned.

Cheers: if you bear with me I will do a bit of a write-up on this soon.

 

[AlwynS]

Thanks for the kind comments David. Some thoughts below

Food for thought indeed Alwyn, I going to try it. I knew about manual mode allowing auto ISO (most modern cameras do) but never thought to make use of it. Very dubious regards 3200 ISO for BIF,

I am likewise not convinced about this. But I have been stuck in a rut for some time now because what I was doing was working sort of OK-ish. Sort of rather the devil you know (warts and all!) than the devil you don't know. So I decided to take a leap out of my comfort zone and try something different.

The reason for going with the (absurdly?) high ISO is twofold: firstly, because ISO is now the only variable left to use if I fix both shutter speed and aperture so I wanted some leeway plus one of our group of friends that share photographs recently got some surprisingly good (surprisingly less bad than expected?) quite high ISO images with his Panasonic FZ1000. So I thought a bit of experimentation would not kill me: if the results are bad, there is always the delete button .

Noted that up to now I have limited ISO to 800 and even with these settings I do not really expect to really use the (absurd by my standards) max of 3200. But I did want to give it a try at least while I am feeling... adventurous?

I fully expect to regularly manually "back off" on shutter speed (especially for BIF) if conditions are such that the ISO creeps up more than I like....

I will stick to 1600 for both perched and BIF but even 1600 is a stop more than I would normally allow the ISO to go up to on a 1" sensor camera. For me, it might be a case of biting the bullet and splashing out on DXO PL to get my hands on Deep Prime. There's no getting round the fact that by shooting at 1600 ISO you are in effect underexposing by 4 stops and that doesn't just produce excessive noise. It robs the image of detail and reduces the dynamic range and even degrades the colours somewhat. But, as Nigel as proved time and time again, Deep Prime works wonders on really noisy images. I'm also going to try 1/500 shutter speed for perched birds and 1/1000 for BIF to start with.

I will have to try this as well I think. Given the ISO limitations of a 1" sensor camera I suppose we MUST explore possibilities to mitigate the "deficiencies".

Thanks for giving me this huge nudge.

I felt the same way when I was discussing this with my group of friends. I tend to be rather conservatives in my approach so I know I definitely need a push to get me to try something that does not come naturally to me....

 

[AlwynS]

I have a related question if anyone's able to give me a little guidance.

I'd like my RX10M4 lens to zoom to its fullest 600mm focal length when using a custom button (e.g., Focus Hold or AEL) when switching from my perched birds setting (which I have in Memory Recall 1) to my BIF settings (in MR 2). Then, when I let off of the custom button after taking my BIF shots, the lens will retract to the settings I have for perched birds.

Hhmm, I have not seen anything that makes me think this is possible. I would be interested to hear if you do find something.

I've tried many configurations and read lots of posts on this forum about custom settings, but for the life of me I haven't figured this one out yet. Maybe the answer for my inability to set my camera up in this way is it's not possible, but I thought I'd ask to see if any of you might be able to provide me some guidance on this.

Thanks, Alwyn, for your posting this update on your custom settings; very much appreciated.

You are welcome: I tend to be rather conservative and stick with what works at least acceptably/reasonably well for me and that I am comfortable with. A bit silly really as this is a hobby and there really is no downside to experimenting. I just needed my brother to nudge (as Horacecoker David put it) me to experiment a bit.

Cheers!

 

[Horacecoker]

Thanks for the kind comments David. Some thoughts below

Food for thought indeed Alwyn, I going to try it. I knew about manual mode allowing auto ISO (most modern cameras do) but never thought to make use of it. Very dubious regards 3200 ISO for BIF,

I am likewise not convinced about this. But I have been stuck in a rut for some time now because what I was doing was working sort of OK-ish. Sort of rather the devil you know (warts and all!) than the devil you don't know. So I decided to take a leap out of my comfort zone and try something different.

The reason for going with the (absurdly?) high ISO is twofold: firstly, because ISO is now the only variable left to use if I fix both shutter speed and aperture so I wanted some leeway plus one of our group of friends that share photographs recently got some surprisingly good (surprisingly less bad than expected?) quite high ISO images with his Panasonic FZ1000. So I thought a bit of experimentation would not kill me: if the results are bad, there is always the delete button .

Noted that up to now I have limited ISO to 800 and even with these settings I do not really expect to really use the (absurd by my standards) max of 3200. But I did want to give it a try at least while I am feeling... adventurous?

I fully expect to regularly manually "back off" on shutter speed (especially for BIF) if conditions are such that the ISO creeps up more than I like....

I will stick to 1600 for both perched and BIF but even 1600 is a stop more than I would normally allow the ISO to go up to on a 1" sensor camera. For me, it might be a case of biting the bullet and splashing out on DXO PL to get my hands on Deep Prime. There's no getting round the fact that by shooting at 1600 ISO you are in effect underexposing by 4 stops and that doesn't just produce excessive noise. It robs the image of detail and reduces the dynamic range and even degrades the colours somewhat. But, as Nigel as proved time and time again, Deep Prime works wonders on really noisy images. I'm also going to try 1/500 shutter speed for perched birds and 1/1000 for BIF to start with.

I will have to try this as well I think. Given the ISO limitations of a 1" sensor camera I suppose we MUST explore possibilities to mitigate the "deficiencies".

Thanks for giving me this huge nudge.

I felt the same way when I was discussing this with my group of friends. I tend to be rather conservatives in my approach so I know I definitely need a push to get me to try something that does not come naturally to me....

I've now reset M1 & M2 to the (your) 'new' manual exposure method. I've compromised a bit with the shutter speeds and gone for 1/640 for perched birds and 1/1250 for BIF. Thing is, that's not set in stone. Like you say it's very easy to change the shutter speed as and when needed when actually shooting in M1 or M2. And as for the aperture, that will never need changing, it will always be f/4.

Exciting times! The good thing is we can exchange notes. One thing I will say is that judging by the images you post, you seem to get far more sunshine than I do which will help you greatly to keep away from those 'absurdly' high ISOs. 3200 ISO on the RX10iv generates near enough the same amount of noise as shooting at 25,600 ISO on FF. (Not a lot of people know that.)

 

[Horacecoker]

Food for thought indeed Alwyn, I going to try it. I knew about manual mode allowing auto ISO (most modern cameras do) but never thought to make use of it.

Yes, Sony has allowed Auto ISO in Manual mode for many years now. The original RX100 in 2012 didn't have it, but I think it came soon after. For example, the original RX10 (introduced in 2013) has it, as Elliott reported here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3596601#forum-post-52772944

Very dubious regards 3200 ISO for BIF, I will stick to 1600 for both perched and BIF but even 1600 is a stop more than I would normally allow the ISO to go up to on a 1" sensor camera. For me, it might be a case of biting the bullet and splashing out on DXO PL to get my hands on Deep Prime.

I'm sure the next DxO 30% sale will be along soon...

Please let me know when that happens.

 

[Bassy]

did you know about shooting this way you stay in aperture priority F4 and choose

your minimum shutter speed with auto iso

this method will work on therx10 mark4

 

[AlwynS]

Went for a walk this morning and got the following:

BIF:

Long range:





Closer:





Closest:



The light was reasonably good, which certainly helped. But generally I would have expected the camera to have chosen around 1/1000th with lower ISO for most of these shots. Early days but this just "feels" as if I was able to get sharper images a bit more consistently and more easily.

Perched:

Not sure if anything really changed with this. At least to me it seems no worse than what I would have expected with the previous settings











So far so good I think.

--
Cheers
Alwyn

 

[Rodger1943]

I have used M mode with auto ISO, a fixed aperture of F4 and a set shutter speed for years, both on my FZ1000 and Sony RX10. I just like the control it gives. If the weather is good, I might set the ISO to 400, which seems pretty good for a lot of light conditions and then I make all my adjustments via the shutter speed. eg if I want more light I drop the shutter speed and if I want less light I up the shutter speed, so there's only one adjustment you need to make.

 

[Rodger1943]

Great results, Alywn.

 

[AlwynS]

did you know about shooting this way you stay in aperture priority F4 and choose

your minimum shutter speed with auto iso

this method will work on therx10 mark4

You are right, it is certainly a very similar solution

 

[Horacecoker]

Went for a walk this morning and got the following:

BIF:

Long range:





Closer:





Closest:



The light was reasonably good, which certainly helped. But generally I would have expected the camera to have chosen around 1/1000th with lower ISO for most of these shots. Early days but this just "feels" as if I was able to get sharper images a bit more consistently and more easily.

Perched:

Not sure if anything really changed with this. At least to me it seems no worse than what I would have expected with the previous settings











So far so good I think.

Nice images. Your new settings certainly work in good light when the ISO doesn't need to be very high. Only wish I could experiment with obliging eagles and hummingbirds under glorious blue skies - very envious!!

 

[wam7]

Not really huge changes but hopefully some incremental improvements. I will be trying these settings for the next little while and report back how it works out for me in practice.

Thanks for the update. I had pretty much independently come to exactly the same settings as yours. I also use max of ISO3200 for the BIF as I can quite easily take care of the noise at that level.