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Hi iso comparison..
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I am also interested in this thread. I am looking to buy the D800E and because the place near me didn't have the D800E I order the D800 to test out since we can return if we are not happy with it.
I will be able to test it from tomorrow with my 200mm f2 ais. I can give you an overview afterwards. I am not sure what would be the best option since everyone talks about the D750 having better high ISO performance and by that for me having good ISO performance is up to ISO6400 since I don't go up to 12800 (very very rarely). Have been up to ISO10000 but not many times to ISO12800.
I have downloaded some raw files from the web including from dpreview (which are not good to be honest to test the cameras) and I was not able to fully conclude anything because they weren't taken in the same place and settings but the scenes don't allow you to evaluate fully the ISO performance. One thing is to take shots with the available light and can be very dark and in that case there isn't any camera that can save you - probably the latest one costing $5K. But for those ones within this price range $600 to $1K they will look the same. Probably a BSI sensor can give you better results in low light, in fact it gives you if you look at the A7III samples under low light condition with not great quality lighting. However, you can see that the file is still noisy.
Now if the low light condition has got good quality available light I guess any of the cameras will perform well.
The files from D800 and D800E that I have analysed at ISO6400 looked not great but comparing to the D750 the low light samples had a little bit better quality available light in the low light situation where it was shot and the results were a bit better. I would like to see the D800 and D800E samples on the same place and condition to compare them.
The D800 can be had close to my place for $780 with 28K actuations. The D800E can be had for $850 (actually I mentioned $770 on another thread but it was meant to be the price of the D800 and not the D800. Currently the exchange rate pound/dollar is a bit higher than before) with 30K actuations. They come with 1 year of warranty. Overall condition looks very good. Shame it doesn't have the flip screen.
I am very tempted to get the D800E because of the price. I will be using it mainly with manual lenses and I ordered the D800 to check if this can be achieved easily with the focus guide/confirmation in manual mode. Case this does not happen I will give another try with the D750. If I can't get the grip I will check the mirrorless camera options and that's another domain that will make me lose lots of time because I have canon glass also and going mirror the debate will be going to canon EOS R for example since the others R5/6 are too expensive, or going with Sony and from what I have seen the A7R has got the same sensor of the D800 and D800E and I was very pleased with the results or with the A7R2 or even A73 (for the low-light as well, further performance) and use an adapter with the A7R2 or A73 and use my canon glass until the R5 becomes affordable and re-think my setup.
The other option is to go mirrorless and as I was advised get an A7, A7II or A7R, A7RII. The A7R has got the same sensor as the D800/D800E according to DXOMARK assessment and photonstophoto website.
One thing that is very curious - and would appreciate if someone can jump in and correct me and explain what that thing means - is that if you look at photonstophoto or DXOMARK ISO performance, the values they both got in there for the D800 and D800E is much higher than the D750.
PHOTONS TO PHOTO:
Nikon D800E Maximum PDR: 11.46 / Low light ISO: 4299 / Low light EV: 10.43
Nikon D800 Maximum PDR: 11.42 / Low light ISO: 3984 / Low light EV: 10.32
Nikon D750 Maximum PDR: 11.49 / Low light ISO: 4075 / Low light EV: 10.35
DXOMARK
Nikon D800E ISO: 2979
Nikon D800 ISO: 2853
Nikon D750 ISO: 2956
As you can see the performance is basically the same according to these results from these websites. Now I wonder why are people saying that D750 is better in low light.
Now if we grab the information above my understand is that the ISO they present in there is the maximum ISO that the camera can go up to to make the image usable and I assume without resorting to noise reduction. I might be wrong but it would be nice if someone could jump in.
Sorry for hijacking your thread and hope any info in here can help you. One more thing is that the D750 has been recalled a couple of times and if you have access to the serial number of the camera you can check it out if it was recalled or not using this website:
D750 Service Advisory
Dyun27
Senior Member
Both will do great in low light, but the D750 is cleaner when comparing in native size. With noise reduction software being as good as it is these days (DxO PL 4 "Deep Prime" NR and Topaz Denoise), you shouldn't need to worry about ISO 6400 with either camera, as long as you expose properly. Underexposed images will be harder to clean up for sure.
Look at the camera comparison tool.
The AF in low light is better on the D750 however, so maybe that should also be part of the decision process.
Dyun27
Senior Member
The Nikon D800, D800E and D4 focus down to -2EV, whereas the D750 focuses down to -3EV. The D500 focuses down to -4EV,... so yes, in theory the D750 AF should focus more accurately in low light than the D4, plus you get more pixels on your subject. The D4 has a 16mpx sensor compared to 24mpx in D750. I'm not saying the D4 isn't still a great camera, just saying the D750 low light focusing should be more accurate.
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Nikon 79
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Of course, you didn't hijack my post.
Thank you very much for your inputs and the important info.
I really struggle to find someone who can give a clear answer to my question.
In my opinion, the D800E is a way better camera than the D750.
The stunning D800E sensor itself is the reason for someone to go for this camera.
But again..I would like to know the real-life differences between these cameras at iso 6400.
Thank you very much for your inputs and the important info.
I really struggle to find someone who can give a clear answer to my question.
In my opinion, the D800E is a way better camera than the D750.
The stunning D800E sensor itself is the reason for someone to go for this camera.
But again..I would like to know the real-life differences between these cameras at iso 6400.
I understand you and I am with you. I think it will depend on the quality of the light in the low light situation. Have you tried to download some samples around the web? I don't know if I can refer to another website with additional RAW files. I could re-direct you to that website and you can download the samples. Do you understand what I mean?
Example:
ISO6400 with nice light:
ISO6400
ISO6400 with poor light, though I must say that the picture was not very well taken you can see some shake which can also detour the analysis:
ISO6400
Now and example with ISO1400 with poor lighting:
ISO1400
I guess that other cameras would perform more or less the same way. Of course one could use ETTR for example or search for better light to get better photos at same ISO. Probably a BSI sensor would perform a bit better but probably other cameras with similar specs and such would perform similar.
But because it wasn't me who shot these I cannot fully trust.
For at ISO100 a portrait:
ISO100
In here any camera would perform very well. Even a crop sensor.
ISO100
I think the image here was under exposed on purpose but came nicely.
At ISO3200 you here an example with good light:
ISO3200
Not worth putting with bad light if at ISO1400 with bad light you get the above shown.
All the images aren't mine and weren't modified, that is are SOOC RAW.
I have analysed also some files from great cameras like the A7R which apparently has the same sensor and they looked a bit better but that could be because being mirrorless you have more accurate AF and that camera does not have AA filter I think. The same for the A7RII and A7III and I can tell you that the photos where the light wasn't great the files came really noisy. Even the A7III although this one was a bit better than the others.
The following picture was taken with the D800 and I think the sensor is the same though according to DXO and photonstophoto the ISO performance is a bit lower that the D800E. It was taken at ISO6400 and you can see that it is all right though one can see a bit of noise but the noise it is better than the one at ISO1400 with bad light.
ISO6400
Probably the noise in some of the pictures might not be very noticeable because I have resized them if that is the case I can post the a screen shot or point you to the site where they were taken.
Hopefully I will receive the D800 tomorrow and I will try it out with my manual 200mm f2 ais and I can come back to you with some findings.
What kind of situation are you going to be shooting?
For example my 6D I have only realised now how good the camera is at low light when shooting the right of the histogram (ETTR) when compared to other cameras, recent cameras. I understand now when they call it low light monster. I can shoot in a reasonable lit room using ETTR technique at ISO12800 without problems.
An example is shown below at ISO10000 in a normal lit living room with ETTR and post processed just with basic correction. First one without noise reduction and the second with noise reduction and some sharpening.
ISO10000 no NR
ISO10000 and NR and sharpening
I agree that the D800E is indeed a much better camera than the D750 but the thing here with the ISO if it is something that you really need probably the D750 is the best option according to real life testimonials if you are going to shoot at very high ISO or probably it is best to get a D4. But strangely enough is that DXOMARK and photontophoto puts the D800E ahead of the D750 with better ISO performance at least till 4300.
Thanks.
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Dyun27
Senior Member
Of course the D800 sensor is great, but if we're talking low light high ISO, the D750 has the slight edge over the D800(E). why is that? Because to get higher resolution out of that sensor, Nikon had to cram in a lot more pixels. The more pixels you cram onto a sensor, the less light gets in, the more noise it will produce at any ISO range.
"Way" better camera? Not in my opinion. It's great if you need high resolution images and slightly better dynamic range at ISO 64, but in low light at high ISO the D750 will do a better job.
I told you, and I even tried showing you what the difference is with real life examples that you yourself can control. The real life difference is that the D800(E) will produce slightly grainier images at ISO 6400 compared to the D750.
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Have you had the D800E? Can you give your feedback about using manual focusing lenses with it? How accurate is it?
The same for your D750. Thanks
Zoran K
Senior Member
At one point of time we were using D800 and D750 for our wedding business. Regardless of the test results from DXO, in real life the D800 was noisier. Resizing to 24MP helps in minimizing the noise and makes the difference less obvious. I don't have personal experience with D800E, but I assume that their performances are similar.
I see. Did you have the chance to shoot the same picture with same settings out of curiosity for comparison at that time? With same available light? The results were as you describe? How many stops is the D800 worst that D750 just have an idea?
Adam-T
Forum Pro
its about 1/3 of a stop - 1/2 a stop at most in RAW at pixel level , resize the 800E image to 24Mp and the 800E wins ....... also the D750 has a pretty heavy AA filter softening the images - the D800E`s expensive cancelling filter effectively doesn`t have one .. that 36Mp sensor is still in the top group for a reason, its a hell of a performer even now full stop , the only advantage the 24Mp sensor has is smaller RAW files . Check DXO , the D600/610 have the same IQ as the D750 with less shutter shock for a fraction of the price , so long as you don`t need a fancy AF system , you`re laughing but I`d just get a D800E and have done - next worthy step is a D850
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WildlifePhotog
Senior Member
The D750 definitely has better noise performance at lSO 6400 or above, however I agree not much at the same resolution. (As in down sizing the D800E files to 24mp!) I would personally choose the D800E or D800/810. The prices are so low right now I would get a D810 used instead. Even if you have to save up for it, the D810 is a much newer and better camera. Not image quality wise, just about every feature or spec is better as is the lack of left focus issues. I tried to buy a D800 used years ago, I looked at three separate copies as the first two both suffered from the left focusing issue! So I recommend the D800E and or better yet the D819
There is nothing wrong with a D750 if all you care about is image quality and high ISO. My issue with the D750 is ergonomics, build quality and weather sealing. It’s a prosumer camera, while the D800/E/810 are all professional build quality and just feel better in your hands. I’ve played around with a friends D750 and it feels like a plastic fantastic camera to me. Of course that’s mostly because I own and use two D5 bodies and before that D4/D4s all the way back to the D1 in 1999. So I’m used to professional flagship bodies. I honestly wouldn’t worry to much about ISO 6400 nowadays and I agree the software is amazing, I use Topaz Denoise Ai and it’s amazing. I can shoot at 128O0 or 25600 without worrying!
There is nothing wrong with a D750 if all you care about is image quality and high ISO. My issue with the D750 is ergonomics, build quality and weather sealing. It’s a prosumer camera, while the D800/E/810 are all professional build quality and just feel better in your hands. I’ve played around with a friends D750 and it feels like a plastic fantastic camera to me. Of course that’s mostly because I own and use two D5 bodies and before that D4/D4s all the way back to the D1 in 1999. So I’m used to professional flagship bodies. I honestly wouldn’t worry to much about ISO 6400 nowadays and I agree the software is amazing, I use Topaz Denoise Ai and it’s amazing. I can shoot at 128O0 or 25600 without worrying!
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aVolanche
Senior Member
No doubt, at today's prices a D810! I sold my D810 and bought a D500. Sold D500 and got D750. Sold D750 and got D810 again. It's just a better camera for me. I shoot everything from sports to flying birds to portraits and candids. D810 handles it all.
ericbowles
Senior Member
The noise at high ISO levels is very similar between the two - not something where you can tell the difference with your naked eye if you use a common output size. The benefit of the D800E is going to be higher resolution, and when ISO is not a challenge, that resolution is pretty spectacular. If your lenses are up to the D800E, you can see a difference. I'll never forget my first set of photos with the D800E.
The D750 is good, but it's basically a stripped down D800 with a standard resolution sensor. It lacks some of the performance features you have with the D800/E.
The D750 is good, but it's basically a stripped down D800 with a standard resolution sensor. It lacks some of the performance features you have with the D800/E.
Adam-T
Forum Pro
its basically a full frame D7200 - or a D600 with the AF it should have had to begin with and a flippy screen which is pretty useless because the live view is so bad
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Thank you very much for this information. So we can say that the D800/D800E performance at ISO3200 is the same as the D750 but at ISO3200 lets say. Probably this is a good way to put, when we go out and compare both at 1:1 view each at their original pixel number.
In regards to downsizing the D800/D800E file to the 24mpx, by that you mean crop the file at the same resolution as the D750 or is there a tool or procedure to do it in lightroom?
I was actually looking at the D610 because I will be using the camera with manual lenses and not sure if this is a better investment instead of the D800E or D750. Is there anything one should know about the D610? Like problems, failures, recalls, etc?
I have just received the D800 because they didn't have the D800E and I am testing it with my 200mm f2 ais. Will come back with my findings.
Thanks in advance.
Adam-T
Forum Pro
just resizing the image to 6000 across in photoshop will do - I don`t use Lightroom , I use capture one for RAW and photoshop for everything else .....
the D610 is the bargain of the newer cams , the only let down is if you need more than the centre focus point, the rest aren`t very sensitive , centre point wise its just fine ....... I`d watch used prices though, they can be up to as much as the D800
The D800 is a softer D800E (it has an AA filter but not as strong as the one in the 24Mp FF cams) - they seemed to have the left side AF point issue more than the E if I remember rightly - but if you`re on centre point most of the time, iot won`t be an issue .
Thanks for this piece of information. The thing is that I guess that if the quality of the light isn't great even the D750 will no perform considerably better or it can perform better but the file will not be that usable. That's my guess based on the use case of my 6D. I will also get the D750 in due time after testing the D800 to try it out and check this ISO performance.
In regards to the D810, you are saying that it is better camera for the features and all that. Can you enumerate which ones from the top of your head? Why would it really be worth upgrading? For example the place I am looking at, they sell the D800 for approximately $780 and the D800E for $850 and the D810 for $1160. It is a $300 jump from D800E to D810. The features have to be really good to justify that jump wouldn't you say?
In regards to the left focus problem. How do you know that a camera has it? In which condition this happens? Do you know it by heart or do you have any reference? Was the camera recalled to have this fixed? Thanks in advance.
As a first couple of shots I did earlier with the D800 and quick analysis with available light in the house and ceiling lights, I would go above ISO2500 with the D800. The D800E apparently has a better ISO performance according to photonstophoto and DXOMARK so I would think that with the D800E one could up to ISO3200 and not above that.
Cheers
I see. Just out of interest, when you say common output size I guess you mean bringing the 36mpx resolution to 25mpx? How do you do this? Just in case someone else doesn't answer. I have asked already above.
Thanks.
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