#Arkive MO: Adapting Topcor

[moedius]

As I've been trying out various new (to me) mounts, I've been looking at some of the Topcor.

Do I understand this correcty; to use with my EXA > NEX adapter, I would want an RE Auto Topcor, the UV line is a different mount and isnt as straightforward to adapt?

Do some of the RE lenses not fit on the exa adapters, and if so is there a way to know by looking at the mount? I see the pins in the pictures of the lenses, but I can't tell if they're placed in such a way to cause a problem. I've seen posts where people had problems and had to take a dremel to the adapter to cut a groove. It's within the realm of doable, but I'd like to avoid having to customize the mounts at the moment if possible.

--
"Banal ideas cannot be rescued by beautiful execution" - Sol Lewitt

 

[ThomasB]

As I've been trying out various new (to me) mounts, I've been looking at some of the Topcor.

Do I understand this correcty; to use with my EXA > NEX adapter, I would want an RE Auto Topcor, the UV line is a different mount and isnt as straightforward to adapt?

Do some of the RE lenses not fit on the exa adapters, and if so is there a way to know by looking at the mount? I see the pins in the pictures of the lenses, but I can't tell if they're placed in such a way to cause a problem. I've seen posts where people had problems and had to take a dremel to the adapter to cut a groove. It's within the realm of doable, but I'd like to avoid having to customize the mounts at the moment if possible.

Any EXA to NEX adapter should be fine for the RE lenses.
The UV lenses are totally different as the aperture control was part of the camera; i.e. the adapter has to control the aperture as well. There was an original accessory from Topcon to convert UV lenses to RE mount to enable their usage on RE cameras but that is very hard to find. However, there are ready UV to NEX adapters available as well.

Here in front of my UV collection you see the original Topcon UV to RE adapter:



--
Regards, Thomas Bernardy
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[moedius]

Any EXA to NEX adapter should be fine for the RE lenses.

Thank you for confirming.

The UV lenses are totally different as the aperture control was part of the camera; i.e. the adapter has to control the aperture as well. There was an original accessory from Topcon to convert UV lenses to RE mount to enable their usage on RE cameras but that is very hard to find. However, there are ready UV to NEX adapters available as well.

I had a hell of a time finding an adapter, and had given up till you mentioned it here. I had to try a few more variations of terms, but I did find it now which is great!

Here in front of my UV collection you see the original Topcon UV to RE adapter

Mount\adapter differences aside, is there a notable quality difference between the UV and RE lenses? I've seen it stated often that the UV line was an 'economy' or budget series, but that doesn't tell me much about whether it's worth pursuing an adapter, or buying an old body and trying to make one myself.

 

[moedius]

Maybe someone can clarify this for me as well - the difference between topcon and topcor?

So is Tokyo kogaku the brand, topcon is the camera system, and topcor is the lens series? Or do I have they wrong?

I couldn't find a uv adapter until I searched for "topcor uv". Took me a while to figure that out.

--
"Banal ideas cannot be rescued by beautiful execution" - Sol Lewitt

 

[ThomasB]

Mount\adapter differences aside, is there a notable quality difference between the UV and RE lenses? I've seen it stated often that the UV line was an 'economy' or budget series, but that doesn't tell me much about whether it's worth pursuing an adapter, or buying an old body and trying to make one myself.

Well, it's a different system with central shutter. Therefore the lenses are generally slower. However, there is no general answer to your question in terms of quality. I've compared e.g. the RE 100mm/F2.8 with the UV 100mm/F4 and found the UV lens better (lesser CA's) at same aperture. The 135mm lenses are more or less on the same level.
From my experience both versions aren't bad, but the RE series offers more choices and also special lenses as the RE series was used by the U.S. Marine as well.
The number of different UV lenses is rather limited from 28 to 200 mm but they are available for very little money and certainly not bad for that price.

 

[ThomasB]

So is Tokyo kogaku the brand, topcon is the camera system, and topcor is the lens series? Or do I have they wrong?

Tokyo Kogaku is the older and Topcon the newer company name and Topcor is the brand name of their lenses. Like Nikkor for Nikon or Rokkor for Minolta lenses.

--
Regards, Thomas Bernardy
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[Lightshow]

So is Tokyo kogaku the brand, topcon is the camera system, and topcor is the lens series? Or do I have they wrong?

Tokyo Kogaku is the older and Topcon the newer company name and Topcor is the brand name of their lenses. Like Nikkor for Nikon or Rokkor for Minolta lenses.
--
Regards, Thomas Bernardy
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Exactly. You can add Takumar, Zukio, Serenar, Hexanon, Tominon, and Yashinon.(There are probably others)(Zeiss and Leica sort of also do it, but it's more related to the lens design, eg. Elmarit & Distagon)

There is an issue with mounting RE (possibly F too) lenses on the older R bodies in that it's not possible to mount them, I've had no issue with my Exakta adapter with any of my Topcor lenses that are Exakta based.

--
A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/
[My Lens list](http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/viewprofile.php?Action=viewprofile&username=LightShow)
####Where's my FF NEX-7 ?????

https://flic.kr/p/Q2b9mq

https://flic.kr/p/PgwEjs

Firmware request:
-A button map for toggling the EVF & LCD
-Still waiting for the minimum shutter speed with auto ISO for my NEX-7 and A7r. I know it will never happen.
-Customize the display screen layout, I'd love to have both Histogram and level at the same time.
-More peaking options, being able to set peaking sensitivity and a threshold level.
-An RGB overlay on the histogram

https://flic.kr/p/wQd7zp

-An option to return the focus assist zoom to one button press
-An option to return to how the NEX-7 handled playback, ie. center button to zoom, then you could use the control dial to zoom in and out, then center button to exit the zoom mode.

 

[Ching-Kuang Shene]

Topcon was founded on September 1st in 1932, initially named as Tokyo Optical Co., then changed to Topcon Optical Co. Topcon made some unsuccessful RF and TLR cameras; but, Topcon made one of the most advanced SLR with built-in meter, the Topcon RE Super.

Asahi Pentax was the first Japanese camera maker to release a SLR, the Asahiflex I in 1951 (or 1952). But, Asahiflex has not pentaprism commonly seen in today's SLR. We have to wait until Contax S (East Germany) and later Rectiflex (Italy) in 1949. This Asahiflex I looks very similar to Praktiflex built before WW2. The first Japanese SLR equipped with a pentaprism is the 1954 Miranda T aka Miranda Standard. This is followed by 1957's Asahi Pentax and Asahi Pentax S, and Topcon R. Therefore, Topcon was one of the earliest Japanese SLR maker. Then, we have 1958's Minolta SR-2 and Nikon F and Canon Canonflex in 1959.

The Topcon R released in 1957 is not a great camera. However, two notes are worthwhile to be discussed. FIRST, the shutter release button is placed on the right side of the camera front, just like Contax S and Praktiflex. SECOND, Topcon used Exakta mount, which was used throughout the years until 1979's Topcon RM 300, which has a Pentax K mount.

From Topcon R (1957), we saw a series of SLRs from Topcon: Topcon R II (1960), Topcon R 3 Automatic (1960), and Topcon RS (1962). The 1963 Topcon RE Super is THE camera that could rival Nikon F . The Topcon RE Super is a beautiful camera and easy to use.

Topcon RE Super

Removable Viewfinder

Exakta mount

A Biotar 58mm f/2 amounted on a Topcon RE Super

Topcon/Exakta Lens Mount

The meter of Topcon RE Super is "wired" on the flipping mirror

This is the lines etched from the flipping mirror

Topcon RE Super uses two CdS sensor, wired underneath the mirror. One "wire" measures weak light while the other for strong light.

CdS meters wiring.

Topcon RE Super is the FIRST SLR to have TTL meter. many people followed Pentax's claim because Pentax claimed that Asahi Pentex Spotmatic is the first TTL capable SLR. However, Spotmatic only existed in prototype around 1961. But, by 1964 when Spotmatic was on the market, it is one year later than Topcon RE Super.

Topcon also have a series of leaf shutter lower-end cameras (e.g., Uni Unirex). These cameras use the so-called UV lens, UV not for ultra-violet. To adapt UV lenses on a MILC, one need a special made adapter. Note that the UV series lenses do not have aperture control. Instead, aperture is controlled by a ring on a camera body like Contax RF. The following is a UV Topcor 200mm f/4. As you will see, no apeture ring on the lens:


UV Topcon 200mm f/4

The best way to mount UV Topcor lenses is by salvaging the mounting ring from a Topcon camera and put it on a M42 to NEX adapter as shown below.



Just keep in mind that the UV Topcor lenses are lower level lenses. As a result, don't expect super results from it. The above UV Topcor 200mm f/4 has a minimum focus distance 6m.

By the way, Topcon made the first 300mm f/2.8 in 1958, the fisrt of this kind, even before Canon and Nikon announced their SLR Canonflex and Nikon F. I have a post here -> A Few Test Shots of Topcon R. Topcor 30cm f/2.8 （1958） .

CK

 

[Proplus888]

What a great post! Mega thanks!!! Super informative and so much to learn from it!!!

 

[Heritage Cameras]

Asahi Pentax was the first Japanese camera maker to release a SLR, the Asahiflex I in 1951 (or 1952). But, Asahiflex has not pentaprism commonly seen in today's SLR. We have to wait until Contax S (East Germany) and later Rectiflex (Italy) in 1949.

CK

A fascinating post as usual CK – thank you.

Interestingly, the Italian Rectaflex was also available in a Rotor version with a three-lens turret, just like the recently announced Multi Turret system.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, etc.

 

[moedius]

Thank you.

I wish there was more standardization of how lenses and camera gear is listed by sellers on eBay.

 

[moedius]

Thanks! That's a really thorough and concise history lesson there.

 

[moedius]

So is Tokyo kogaku the brand, topcon is the camera system, and topcor is the lens series? Or do I have they wrong?

Tokyo Kogaku is the older and Topcon the newer company name and Topcor is the brand name of their lenses. Like Nikkor for Nikon or Rokkor for Minolta lenses.
--
Regards, Thomas Bernardy
----------

There is an issue with mounting RE (possibly F too) lenses on the older R bodies in that it's not possible to mount them, I've had no issue with my Exakta adapter with any of my Topcor lenses that are Exakta based.

I saw that all the canon adapters for Topcon had grooves cut for the pins, this was throwing me off as none of the dumb adapters did. But now that I have the EXA adapter and a lens for it, I see how much of a gap is there and I can see how those pins would not be an issue, they'd have to be really long to prevent the bayonet from attaching\locking.

 

[moedius]

I get the RE vs UV now, but does anyone know what the phrasing 'HI Topcor' on some of the lenses is? Is it an actual designation of some sort, or just a variation in branding?

I've only seen it on UV lenses thus far, is that across the board or are there HI Topcor lenses in the RE line as well?

 

[Heritage Cameras]

I get the RE vs UV now, but does anyone know what the phrasing 'HI Topcor' on some of the lenses is? Is it an actual designation of some sort, or just a variation in branding?
I've only seen it on UV lenses thus far, is that across the board or are there HI Topcor lenses in the RE line as well?

HI Topcor lenses were later models with the UV mount, but only for the Topcon IC-1 Auto camera. This had a focal plane shutter instead of the behind-the-lens leaf type used in the Unirex, and the extra space inside the mount allowed more ambitious designs such as a 55mm f/1.8 and 87-205mm zoom. There was a HI Topcor 2x tele converter too.

These may fit existing UV adapters, though I haven't tried it.

 

[Lightshow]

To my knowledge there is no difference to the mount between UV and HI Topcor lenses.

 

[D Cox]

The Topcons were indeed beautiful cameras. I still have mine, but unfortunately only a few lenses.

The shutter button is perfectly placed for reducing camera shake.

Having the meter on the mirror is a much better arrangement than having it in the viewfinder, as it works when you change viewfinders and screens, with no need for any change of settings.

 

[Heritage Cameras]

To my knowledge there is no difference to the mount between UV and HI Topcor lenses.

Yes... and no. The bayonet mount is the same on UV and HI Topcor lenses, but some of the latter have rear elements that are too large to fit onto cameras other than the IC-1 Auto models. Here's the HI Topcor 55mm f/1.8 alongside a Unirex:


A HI Topcor 55mm f/1.8 lens and a Topcon Unirex camera... doesn't fit.

The lens won't mount normally, as the rear element is larger (27mm+) than the diameter of the shutter opening (23mm). Interestingly if you set the lens to minimum focus it will fit, but then you can't focus any further away.

Some HI Topcors seem to be just re-branded UV Topcors sold with the IC-1 Auto cameras, and certainly the HI 50mm f/2 and f/2.8 lenses do fit:


A HI Topcor 50mm f/2.8 lens on a Topcon Unirex camera... fits OK.

The HI Topcor 2x converter doesn't fit, and looking at pictures of the zoom the rear element also looks much too big.

When talking about adapting these lenses (as we are here) this probably doesn't make any difference. Most adapters seem to have a large enough throat to accept the bigger lenses.

--
Dave, HCL

 

[moedius]

Thanks for the input guys!

I'm sure all this info is out there spread out and buried, but I was having a really hard time parsing out a clear answer.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Guessing relative lens quality RE->HI->UV - would this be a fair estimate?