Sharp image (No bokeh effect) when taking welfies

boyshawn

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Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera, and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect, which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.
 
Post a couple of examples so we can see the settings used.
 
Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera, and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect, which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.
What aperture does the EXIF show? I bet it’s fairly wide open and your DOF is small. You may need more light and use A mode and set your aperture smaller to get more DOF.
 
Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera, and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect, which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.
I've never seen this type of photo referred to as "welfies"; the common term is "selfies". Is this new?

EDIT: a Google search shows that "welfie" is used when taking workout selfies. Typically, though, it's of the user only and not a group.

Example photos with the settings (EXIF info) intact would be a huge help. Without seeing samples, I'll guess that when you use a smaller aperture the shutter speed is too low for a handheld shot. A tripod would be a tremendous help. Shutter speeds can be lower but fast enough so there isn't the blur you're getting from hand movement. I wouldn't rule out the use of flash for fill light either.

Mark
 
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Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera, and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect, which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.
What you are looking to do, to get a deep depth of field (DOF) when you are very close to the camera, is quite difficult to do with your camera. A smartphone would be easier. However, here are my suggestions with your G7X.
  1. Position yourself as far away from the camera as possible. There is a huge difference between 2ft and 3ft. Preferably put the camera on a tripod and position yourself 4-5ft away.
  2. Set the zoom to maximum wide angle or very close to it.
  3. Use A mode and set the aperture to f/8.
If that doesn't work try getting further away from the camera, move the other people closer, shoot at a wider angle and/or set the aperture to f/11.

If the image is totally blurred then that means that you haven't got a high enough shutter speed to eliminate camera shake. You either need more light or you have to put the camera on a tripod.

This on-line Depth of Field calculator may help: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html Set the camera type to Nikon V1/J1 which has the same size sensor as your camera. You will need to input the actual focal length (which on your camera runs from 8.8mm to 36.8mm) not the FF equivalent depth of field. The subject distance is your distance from the camera. You need an depth of field behind subject of at least 5-10m but you will find that it quickly goes to infinity which is ideal.

Very small changes in some of the parameters make a huge difference to the depth of field. The most sensitive parameter is the subject distance.
 
Put the camera on a tripod and use a remote release. Set the aperture to somewhere around f/8 which will give you good depth of field on that small sensor.
 
Use your phone. You'd have to set a standard camera to some astronomical f-stop to get objects at both an arm's length and ten feet away in focus, then focus roughly halfway into the scene, and then you'd be well into quadruple-digit ISOs resulting in a both noisy and diffuse pic.

Edit: My Sony RX100, also a 1" sensor, pulls it off at f/8, but with indoor lighting, ISO 3200.

--
Digital Camera and Adobe Photoshop user since 1999.
Adobe Lightroom is my adult coloring book.
 
Last edited:
Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera,
so the camera will be at most about 60cm, (2') from you.
and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect,
They are beyond the field of acceptable sharpness. I suggest you read about "Depth of Field" (DOF). You want the depth of that field to cover from the front of your face to the back of that group of people. The closer the front of that field is to the camera, the more difficult it is to stretch it far away.

The minimum aperture for the lens on a G7XII is f/11. with the lens zoomed out to cover a wide angle, it will have a focal length of 8.8m. If you focus at 60cm with a focal length of 8.8mm on a 1" sensor, you will get a DOF of about 8.7 m, with about 8.4 m meters of the field beyond where it focussed. So you cannot get the 10m DOF you say you want with this camera if you hand hold it.

Furthermore, at 8.8mm focal length and an aperture of f/11, the aperture diameter is 8.8mm/11 = 0.8mm. Such a small aperture diameter produces a lot of diffraction blur. Any images you take at this setting will be blurry. Also, if you have stopped down to f/11, you camera will need to use either a slow shutter speed or a high ISO to get adequate image lightness. If you are not in direct sunlight and try to keep the ISO at base, the shutter is likely to be so slow as to cause motion blur from camera movement as you hold it at arm's length. If you keep the shutter fast enough to prevent camera motion blur, the exposure is likely to be so low as to cause considerable noisiness.
which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.
The most important changes to make would be to the distance relationships between the camera and the humans. If you can use a selfie stick to get the camera 1m from the closest subject, and close up the group so that the farthest person is no more than about 3.8 m behind the closest person, then you can set the aperture to f/5.6. This will let in four times as much light as f/11, allowing you to use a somewhat faster shutter speed and avoid motion blur.You will need to have the selfie stick firmly braced however, or you will get even more motion blur.

An option that produces a much better result is resting the camera on a tripod or other firm holder at an even farther shooting distance. If you shoot from a distance of 2m, you can use an aperture of f/2.8, which lets in four times as much light at f/5.6, and can cover up to 4m behind the front person. Shooting from this distance will also eliminate any distortion that comes from having the camera too close to the subject.

If you must shoot "welfies" holding the camera, then use a smartphone. Its smaller sensor actually helps overcome the DOF problems you are experiencing. However, it won't help with the distortion of close subjects.
 
Post a couple of examples so we can see the settings used.

--
Albert
The lazy photographer


6ba1479549f6438689f00a780e135b3d.jpg

This is one of the examples. Posting the exif:

f-stop: f/1.8

Exposure time: 1/30 second

ISO speed: ISO-500

Exposure bias: 0 step

Focal length: 9mm

Max aperture: 1.6875

Metering mode: Pattern

Flash mode: No flash, complusory
 
Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera, and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect, which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.
I've never seen this type of photo referred to as "welfies"; the common term is "selfies". Is this new?

EDIT: a Google search shows that "welfie" is used when taking workout selfies. Typically, though, it's of the user only and not a group.

Example photos with the settings (EXIF info) intact would be a huge help. Without seeing samples, I'll guess that when you use a smaller aperture the shutter speed is too low for a handheld shot. A tripod would be a tremendous help. Shutter speeds can be lower but fast enough so there isn't the blur you're getting from hand movement. I wouldn't rule out the use of flash for fill light either.

Mark
Thanks Mark for your reply. I have posted an example here
 
What you are looking to do, to get a deep depth of field (DOF) when you are very close to the camera, is quite difficult to do with your camera. A smartphone would be easier. However, here are my suggestions with your G7X.
  1. Position yourself as far away from the camera as possible. There is a huge difference between 2ft and 3ft. Preferably put the camera on a tripod and position yourself 4-5ft away.
  2. Set the zoom to maximum wide angle or very close to it.
  3. Use A mode and set the aperture to f/8.
If that doesn't work try getting further away from the camera, move the other people closer, shoot at a wider angle and/or set the aperture to f/11.

If the image is totally blurred then that means that you haven't got a high enough shutter speed to eliminate camera shake. You either need more light or you have to put the camera on a tripod.

This on-line Depth of Field calculator may help: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html Set the camera type to Nikon V1/J1 which has the same size sensor as your camera. You will need to input the actual focal length (which on your camera runs from 8.8mm to 36.8mm) not the FF equivalent depth of field. The subject distance is your distance from the camera. You need an depth of field behind subject of at least 5-10m but you will find that it quickly goes to infinity which is ideal.

Very small changes in some of the parameters make a huge difference to the depth of field. The most sensitive parameter is the subject distance.
 
Use your phone. You'd have to set a standard camera to some astronomical f-stop to get objects at both an arm's length and ten feet away in focus, then focus roughly halfway into the scene, and then you'd be well into quadruple-digit ISOs resulting in a both noisy and diffuse pic.

Edit: My Sony RX100, also a 1" sensor, pulls it off at f/8, but with indoor lighting, ISO 3200.
 
Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera,
so the camera will be at most about 60cm, (2') from you.
and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect,
They are beyond the field of acceptable sharpness. I suggest you read about "Depth of Field" (DOF). You want the depth of that field to cover from the front of your face to the back of that group of people. The closer the front of that field is to the camera, the more difficult it is to stretch it far away.

The minimum aperture for the lens on a G7XII is f/11. with the lens zoomed out to cover a wide angle, it will have a focal length of 8.8m. If you focus at 60cm with a focal length of 8.8mm on a 1" sensor, you will get a DOF of about 8.7 m, with about 8.4 m meters of the field beyond where it focussed. So you cannot get the 10m DOF you say you want with this camera if you hand hold it.

Furthermore, at 8.8mm focal length and an aperture of f/11, the aperture diameter is 8.8mm/11 = 0.8mm. Such a small aperture diameter produces a lot of diffraction blur. Any images you take at this setting will be blurry. Also, if you have stopped down to f/11, you camera will need to use either a slow shutter speed or a high ISO to get adequate image lightness. If you are not in direct sunlight and try to keep the ISO at base, the shutter is likely to be so slow as to cause motion blur from camera movement as you hold it at arm's length. If you keep the shutter fast enough to prevent camera motion blur, the exposure is likely to be so low as to cause considerable noisiness.
which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.
The most important changes to make would be to the distance relationships between the camera and the humans. If you can use a selfie stick to get the camera 1m from the closest subject, and close up the group so that the farthest person is no more than about 3.8 m behind the closest person, then you can set the aperture to f/5.6. This will let in four times as much light as f/11, allowing you to use a somewhat faster shutter speed and avoid motion blur.You will need to have the selfie stick firmly braced however, or you will get even more motion blur.

An option that produces a much better result is resting the camera on a tripod or other firm holder at an even farther shooting distance. If you shoot from a distance of 2m, you can use an aperture of f/2.8, which lets in four times as much light at f/5.6, and can cover up to 4m behind the front person. Shooting from this distance will also eliminate any distortion that comes from having the camera too close to the subject.

If you must shoot "welfies" holding the camera, then use a smartphone. Its smaller sensor actually helps overcome the DOF problems you are experiencing. However, it won't help with the distortion of close subjects.
Wow! That's a great deal of detailed explanation! So can I say that I should be using a smaller sensor (phone) camera to for welfies and that will effectively solve my problem?
 
Post a couple of examples so we can see the settings used.

--
Albert
The lazy photographer
6ba1479549f6438689f00a780e135b3d.jpg

This is one of the examples. Posting the exif:

f-stop: f/1.8

Exposure time: 1/30 second

ISO speed: ISO-500

Exposure bias: 0 step

Focal length: 9mm

Max aperture: 1.6875

Metering mode: Pattern

Flash mode: No flash, complusory


The picture was shot at a large aperture(f/1.8) and the depth of field will be pretty shallow. And if you are using Aperture mode, the shutter might be too slow which potentially will introduce camera shake.

I would suggest using manual mode with a tripod, set the aperture smaller to allow larger DOF, get in with the rest of group(so you are in the same focusing plane) and then you could afford a slower shutter speed without rising the ISO too high.
 
f-stop: f/1.8

Exposure time: 1/30 second

ISO speed: ISO-500
f/8 would nail it, but that's five stops that would be added to ISO, that would land you at ISO ~15000.

The phone wins this one any way you cut it, unless you reshoot in sunlight.

--
Digital Camera and Adobe Photoshop user since 1999.
Adobe Lightroom is my adult coloring book.
 
Last edited:
Sound like I have to carry a (mini) tripod with me everywhere. It is an added weight with reduced convenience. I took note of your advice. I am shopping around for a small and portable tripod.
 
Alright, sound like taking selfies with phone is still a better option in this case. If I use a camera with smaller sensor size, will the bokeh effect be gone?
The next step down is a 1/2.3" sensor, which has the same IQ as a phone.

One option since everyone's lifting: a ceiling bounced flash. That would fix everything completely, but you'd have to be willing to hold out a camera at arms length with a full-size flash on it. Only $70 if you have the arm for it..
 
The next step down is a 1/2.3" sensor, which has the same IQ as a phone.

One option since everyone's lifting: a ceiling bounced flash. That would fix everything completely, but you'd have to be willing to hold out a camera at arms length with a full-size flash on it. Only $70 if you have the arm for it..
 
Just get a bit closer to the people behind you & either get just a little more light on everybody or change the aperture to a couple of bigger fstops and the people all the way in the back will be as in focus as the girl over your left shoulder and the girl would be more in focus than she is now.

--
Thanks,
Mike
https://www.instagram.com/mikefinleyco/
 
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