Sharp image (No bokeh effect) when taking welfies

[boyshawn]

Hi, I am facing an issue which I will like to seek help and advice from all the experts on the forum. Often, my welfies (i.e me holding the camera, and everyone else sitting standing a short distance (<10 metres) behind me) turns out to have bokeh effect, which is undesirable for me. Because except for myself, everyone else in the photo turns out blurry. I turns to switch to use Aperture priority mode when taking welfies. However the whole photos turn out to be blurry. I will like to get some guidance what is there any recommended setting (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) to get rid of the unwanted bokeh effect? I understand that it will be different under bright light, indoor/outdoor night. Will appreciate if there can be some guidance for me to test and try for future photo-taking.

Background:

Camera: Canon G7X Mark II

How photo is taken: Taken most of the time in Full Auto mode, LED tilted forwards and human take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the bottom of photo in landscape mode.

 

[Chris R-UK]

What you are looking to do, to get a deep depth of field (DOF) when you are very close to the camera, is quite difficult to do with your camera. A smartphone would be easier. However, here are my suggestions with your G7X.

1. Position yourself as far away from the camera as possible. There is a huge difference between 2ft and 3ft. Preferably put the camera on a tripod and position yourself 4-5ft away.
2. Set the zoom to maximum wide angle or very close to it.
3. Use A mode and set the aperture to f/8.

If that doesn't work try getting further away from the camera, move the other people closer, shoot at a wider angle and/or set the aperture to f/11.

If the image is totally blurred then that means that you haven't got a high enough shutter speed to eliminate camera shake. You either need more light or you have to put the camera on a tripod.

This on-line Depth of Field calculator may help: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html Set the camera type to Nikon V1/J1 which has the same size sensor as your camera. You will need to input the actual focal length (which on your camera runs from 8.8mm to 36.8mm) not the FF equivalent depth of field. The subject distance is your distance from the camera. You need an depth of field behind subject of at least 5-10m but you will find that it quickly goes to infinity which is ideal.

Very small changes in some of the parameters make a huge difference to the depth of field. The most sensitive parameter is the subject distance.

 

[boyshawn]

Remember that the larger the f/ number the smaller the aperture are the smaller the amount of light reaching the sensor. So if you use f/8 or f/11 in low light you willhave a very slow shutter speed and you will have to use a tripod.

--
Chris R

Sorry to keep digging the rabbit hole. I understand that the shutter speed should be set to a slower setting for high aperture under low light setting. That could have resulted in blurry image due to shaky hand. As I understand, an average person can hand hold (without a camera at shutter speed between 1/80 to 1/50 seconds . I will like to clarify my understanding that I should do f/11 and shutter speed of 1/50 seconds under dim lighting?

For example, the last 4 person ( including the last one who got half of her face cropped out) face is blurred, and this is under decent bright sunlight.

The setting are:

f-stop: f/4

Exposure time: 1/30 seconds

ISO speed: ISO-125

Focal length: 9mm

Max aperture: 16875

Flash mode: No flash, compulsory

 

[boyshawn]

Just get a bit closer to the people behind you & either get just a little more light on everybody or change the aperture to a couple of bigger fstops and the people all the way in the back will be as in focus as the girl over your left shoulder and the girl would be more in focus than she is now.

 

[Chris R-UK]

You have two problems with low shutter speeds - camera shake which can be fixed by using a tripod, and motion blur caused by one of the people moving during the shot which cannot be fixed by using a tripod. In you shot I think that you have motion blur. I find that you really need at least 1/50 and preferably 1/100 to avoid motion blur when photographing "stationary" people - there is always some movement.

Low light photography is about compromises. If you want a good depth of field then you need a small aperture but that means a very slow shutter speed so you have a camera shake and/or motion blur problem. At f/8 or f/11 you will also get significant softening of the image caused by diffraction. You can't get a perfect picture so you have to decide which defects you are willing to accept.

The only real solutions are to add more light or just avoid shooting this kind of shot in low light.

 

[jshen808]

Remember that the larger the f/ number the smaller the aperture are the smaller the amount of light reaching the sensor. So if you use f/8 or f/11 in low light you willhave a very slow shutter speed and you will have to use a tripod.

--
Chris R

Sorry to keep digging the rabbit hole. I understand that the shutter speed should be set to a slower setting for high aperture under low light setting. That could have resulted in blurry image due to shaky hand. As I understand, an average person can hand hold (without a camera at shutter speed between 1/80 to 1/50 seconds . I will like to clarify my understanding that I should do f/11 and shutter speed of 1/50 seconds under dim lighting?

For example, the last 4 person ( including the last one who got half of her face cropped out) face is blurred, and this is under decent bright sunlight.

The setting are:

f-stop: f/4

Exposure time: 1/30 seconds

ISO speed: ISO-125

Focal length: 9mm

Max aperture: 16875

Flash mode: No flash, compulsory

..Wonderful pictures you have posted..

..this one came out better, in terms of background in focus, verses the previous picture..

..you can try taking outdoor pictures using Aperture Priority at f/8 (if need, can go f/11) and see what results you get..

..for indoors, it's going to be not easy, because most likely will be dealing with lower light situations.. and that is why the camera took the picture indoors at f/1.8 (and the outdoor picture at f/4)..

**********

..realistically, the perhaps the right 'tool' for what you are doing..

..is to use a smartphone camera, and maybe a selfie stick.. ;-)

**********

..try, experiment, and have fun..

..Cheers..

--
Regards, John..
..down with naysayers!
[YI M1 camera, Olympus 17mm f/1.8 lens, firmware 3.0]

 

[mfinley]

For example, the last 4 person ( including the last one who got half of her face cropped out) face is blurred, and this is under decent bright sunlight.

The setting are:

f-stop: f/4

Exposure time: 1/30 seconds

ISO speed: ISO-125

Those two pictures show you the difference in depth of field you are getting from 1.8 and f 4.0. You can see in the bottom picture the 2 stops difference in the lens gave you a lot more depth of field. If you had stepped back toward the two people behind you in the second picture you would have just about everybody in focus.

That 2nd picture should be giving you an idea of how much room you have to play with in sunny conditions.

The difference between okay and good pictures is often the manipulation of the situation by the person taking the picture. If you know for instance you only have 6 feet of distance between you and the last person in a picture that will be in focus shooting outside, you then know to manipulate the people's position in the group to keep everybody within that 6 feet. If you are standing 2 feet in front of the next person behind you and the last person is 8 feet away, if you step back 2 feet and put yourself right in front of the people behind you, that makes the last person now 6 feet behind you and everybody will be in focus. Same thing if you bring the last person up 2 feet. Does that make sense? - from what I see the biggest problem you are causing yourself is you are too far in front of those behind you, you're creating too much distance for your depth of field between yourself and the last person in your pictures, you need to compress that distance and your pictures look like there is room behind your to get closer to the other people.

There is only so much adjustment you are going to do with selfies, you aren't going to set up on a tripod, most people aren't even going to adjust the camera, it's easier because the pictures are fast and spontaneous to adjust the group and yourself and you'll keep that spontaneity and get better pictures.

The other trick that will give you more depth of field is by using a selfie stick, this will put the camera further away from the first person in the picture (you) and you will have a deeper depth of field because of the increased distance the camera is and that will probably solve your problems, especially inside where the light is lower and the camera is working against you.

--
Thanks,
Mike
https://www.instagram.com/mikefinleyco/

 

[Leonard Migliore]

Wow! That's a great deal of detailed explanation! So can I say that I should be using a smaller sensor (phone) camera to for welfies and that will effectively solve my problem?

Yes. Render with cellphones the things that are cellphone's.

 

[lehill]

Post a couple of examples so we can see the settings used.

--
Albert
The lazy photographer

This is one of the examples. Posting the exif:

f-stop: f/1.8

LOL, you've done almost everything possible to blur out the background (the wide angle is helpful to get more DOF):

1. wide open aperture (f/1.8)
2. close to subject (2-3 ft?)
3. background far away (10 ft?)

Seems to me trying to fix #2 gives you the most flexibility. My DOF calculator says if the camera were 6 ft away from your face everything from 4 ft to 12 ft would be in focus even at f/1.8.

It doesn't look like your arm is 6 ft long so a 3-4 ft heavy duty selfie stick could work if you figure out some grip or strap to hold things steady for indoor shots. Outdoor shots in decent light wouldn't be a problem at all.

--
Lance H

 

[GodSpeaks]

[No message]

 

[comis]

f-stop: f/1.8

Exposure time: 1/30 second

ISO speed: ISO-500

f/8 would nail it, but that's five stops that would be added to ISO, that would land you at ISO ~15000.

The phone wins this one any way you cut it, unless you reshoot in sunlight.

 

[Mark B.]

See my reply earlier in the thread. The OP used it to mean "wide-angle selfie", but the only reference I could find was "workout selfie".

 

[Xe11ent]

The depth of field (what will be Sharp) depends on the aperture, how close you are to the person you focus on, the lens or amount of zoom and the sensorsize in the camera.

aperture: a smaller F number (like 1.8 or 2) will give you more background blur.

standing close to the subject gives more backgroundblur.

zooming in or tele gives more background blur

a bigger sensor gives enables more blur than a small one

that is why cellphones will give you less blur in the background.

 

[FingerPainter]

The depth of field (what will be Sharp) depends on the aperture, how close you are to the person you focus on, the lens or amount of zoom and the sensorsize in the camera.

aperture: a smaller F number (like 1.8 or 2) will give you more background blur.

standing close to the subject gives more backgroundblur.

zooming in or tele gives more background blur

The above are correct

a bigger sensor gives enables more blur than a small one

This is wrong. If you keep the same f-number, subject distance and focal length, using a larger sensor provides a deeper DOF and less blur. You only get a shallower DOF and more background blur on a larger sensor if you lengthen the focal length to maintain the same Field of View (FOV). However this effect is already accounted for in the third item in your list.

that is why cellphones will give you less blur in the background.

The reason cellphones give less blur is that they are using a very short focal length to get the same FOV.

 

[Chris R-UK]

The depth of field (what will be Sharp) depends on the aperture, how close you are to the person you focus on, the lens or amount of zoom and the sensorsize in the camera.

aperture: a smaller F number (like 1.8 or 2) will give you more background blur.

standing close to the subject gives more backgroundblur.

zooming in or tele gives more background blur

a bigger sensor gives enables more blur than a small one

that is why cellphones will give you less blur in the background.

Note that the OP is asking how he can get a larger depth of field, not a smaller one.

 

[Xe11ent]

noted. I reckoned OP could figure that out by doing the opposite ;-)

 

[Xe11ent]

The depth of field (what will be Sharp) depends on the aperture, how close you are to the person you focus on, the lens or amount of zoom and the sensorsize in the camera.

aperture: a smaller F number (like 1.8 or 2) will give you more background blur.

standing close to the subject gives more backgroundblur.

zooming in or tele gives more background blur

The above are correct

a bigger sensor gives enables more blur than a small one

This is wrong. If you keep the same f-number, subject distance and focal length, using a larger sensor provides a deeper DOF and less blur. You only get a shallower DOF and more background blur on a larger sensor if you lengthen the focal length to maintain the same Field of View (FOV). However this effect is already accounted for in the third item in your list.

You are right, thanks for correcting! https://fstoppers.com/education/smaller-sensor-size-shallower-your-depth-field-110547

that is why cellphones will give you less blur in the background.

The reason cellphones give less blur is that they are using a very short focal length to get the same FOV.

 

[JoanMM]

Post a couple of examples so we can see the settings used.

This is one of the examples. Posting the exif:

f-stop: f/1.8

LOL, you've done almost everything possible to blur out the background (the wide angle is helpful to get more DOF):

1. wide open aperture (f/1.8)
2. close to subject (2-3 ft?)
3. background far away (10 ft?)

Seems to me trying to fix #2 gives you the most flexibility. My DOF calculator says if the camera were 6 ft away from your face everything from 4 ft to 12 ft would be in focus even at f/1.8.

It doesn't look like your arm is 6 ft long so a 3-4 ft heavy duty selfie stick could work if you figure out some grip or strap to hold things steady for indoor shots. Outdoor shots in decent light wouldn't be a problem at all.

Very nice photo,.. but I have to say that picture reminded me of this..

It's from a page where some animals seem to be taking out selfies, it's funny :-D
Selfies

 

[jshen808]

Post a couple of examples so we can see the settings used.

This is one of the examples. Posting the exif:

f-stop: f/1.8

LOL, you've done almost everything possible to blur out the background (the wide angle is helpful to get more DOF):

1. wide open aperture (f/1.8)
2. close to subject (2-3 ft?)
3. background far away (10 ft?)

Seems to me trying to fix #2 gives you the most flexibility. My DOF calculator says if the camera were 6 ft away from your face everything from 4 ft to 12 ft would be in focus even at f/1.8.

It doesn't look like your arm is 6 ft long so a 3-4 ft heavy duty selfie stick could work if you figure out some grip or strap to hold things steady for indoor shots. Outdoor shots in decent light wouldn't be a problem at all.

Very nice photo,.. but I have to say that picture reminded me of this..

It's from a page where some animals seem to be taking out selfies, it's funny :-D
Selfies

..Lol's, those are indeed funny pictures.. :-D

..thanks for sharing!

..Cheers..

 

[LondonWhiteWalker]

Welfie/Selfie = narcissism. Why is this a thing and why is narcissism still legal.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simongrobinson/

 

[teejaywhy]

You need a Welfie Stick!