Buying a 5Ds(r) now.

[BlueRay2]

I know that it's likely that Canon will replace the 5Ds(r) with a Mark 2 this year

Really? I know there are a few people speculating about such a thing, but then there are always a few dreamers in these forums speculating about the next new model, sometimes only weeks after the first release of the model it's supposed to replace. The fact is, Canon has no reason to rush out a 5Dsr mk2 any time soon. The 5Dsr has no serious competition and Canon is on record as saying it needs to refocus its innovative efforts away from the camera business.

It's also a fact that camera manufacture profitability is tied to the number of units of each model sold. It costs money to set up a production line for a new model camera, and real profits can't be realized until enough units of a model have been sold to amortize the cost of setting up that model's production line. Any "improvements" in a 5Dsr mk2 that would justify it's higher cost will most likely also necessitate creating a new production line instead of simply retooling the existing 5Dsr production line.

--
Landscaper

based on your reasoning, that could be said about 5D, 5D2, 5D3, 5D4, 6D, 6D2, 1D, 1D2, 1D3, 1D4, 1Dx, 1Dx2 (you get the idea)! canon has a very good reason to finish R&D on 5Dsr II to compete with the new nikon D850, which was selected as the best dslr on the market in its class (DPreview)!!! canon doesn't have to up the resolution but perhaps improve on some other features of the new 5Dsr II, such as noise handling and more DR, for example. and maybe incorporating some new technologies. as far as your "production line" reasoning goes, all new dslrs go through that process, besides, i don't think if you have the data how many 5Ds/r cameras canon has sold, so far! or, what marketing reason might give canon the incentive to produce the new 5Dsr II, maybe competing with nikon D580? we don't know! looking at the pattern in the past, i think there is a reasonably good chance that canon may introduce 5Ds/r II sometimes this year, hopefully sooner!

To put your entire statement in its proper context, let's just evaluate the content of your very last sentence ...

"i think there is a reasonably good chance that canon may introduce 5Ds/r II sometimes this year, hopefully sooner!"

"sometimes this year, hopefully sooner?" Sooner than this year would mean last year (2017), and we all know that a 5Dsr mk2 was not released in 2017. I daresay your enthusiasm for the subject has clearly gotten the better of your powers of reasoning. ;-)

--
Landscaper

if you say so!

 

[highlights]

1. Aliasing and moire artifacts manifest less with high megapixelage cameras (your optical system has to achieve a resolution sufficient to exceed the Nyquist limit of the finer-pitched sensor), which is why they're generally the only ones that are offered with the non-AA option. That said, you can see in the DPR studio scene comparison tool that the 5DSR manifests slightly more aliasing/moire effects than the 5DS... but that's not to say that the 5DS is moire-free. It just has less color moire, and less-noticeable aliasing errors.

PP anti-moire tools de-saturate the color artifacts to make them less obvious, but can't really do anything about the luminance errors. I have had to do stupid amounts of work to fix the luminance error in a critical shot (basically patch it up from other areas of the shot that didn't suffer from it) I had from a 6D (which has a weak AA filter) for large printing, which is why choosing the 5DS was a no-brainer for me. YMMV.

Many people seem to think of the 5DS(R) as some sort of niche camera, but it is actually quite well-rounded for any sort of serious photography. They point to the ISO6400 limit... but forget that there are few keepers past that aside from web-posting-look-how-high-this-ISO-went shots. (I guess, YMMV if you're shooting fast animals in marginal light with budget long glass, in which very-elevated ISOs must be utilized for the sort of shutter speeds needed.) What's more significant is that in full-resolution full views (i.e. print), the finer pixel pitch gives the overall noise character a finer, more film-ic quality than more-typical digital pixel pitches. Therefore I think of my 5DS as the finest film camera I could've ever conceived during my transition from scanned film to fully digital. I would have no problems using the 5DS(R) as my sole camera body.

The resolving power of the 5DS(R) improves every lens you already have without having to do a thing, but also opens the door to more improvement with even better lenses and improvements in your own shooting technique. Some people seem to mistake this opportunity to reap more resolution instead as some requirement that makes the 5DS(R)'s operation demanding. It is not at all so. I mostly shoot it freehand and still reap a lot (if not the maximal) amount of benefit in increased resolving power.

2. Yes, the W-E1 basically allows your 5DS(R) to behave like any WiFi-equipped Canon and shoot wirelessly tethered using Canon's own Camera Connect app, or a 3rd-party app, notably DSLR Controller.

Whole heartedly agree. After some initial caution we have now moved from the 5diii to the 5DSR for everything that we need more resolution than the 6D mk 1 can't deliver.

They (we have eight) have largely replaced our Pentax and Hasselblad MF gear.

So long as you have good technique, good glass and understand the effects of the lack of the AA filter - and with some practice the worst effects of the lack of filter can be predicted on shoot by eye, and a with recipe in pp for dealing with minor stuff - there will be no going back. We have two 5DIVs but they only get outings if their low light abilities are critical, or the better focus tracking is of use.

As I have said elsewhere MPX is like horsepower in your car. If you can afford it get, but be sure you learn to handle it, because if you don't you can mess up bad. And like horsepower, the extra MPx can often get you out of trouble, as the more PX the more cropping without loss of res on big prints. I've never loaded into PP and thought "gosh I wish I had less pixels," but I'd love a buck for every time I wished I had more to work with!

It is interesting to note that our staff that prefer the Nikon equipment and use the D810 as there main picturebox, will often be seen sneaking out with the 5DSR (especially if there is a need for the 70-200 F2.8 II or 16-35 f2.8III). I have been somewhat amused to note that a D810 fan-girl seems to be using the 5DSR more than the D810 - if the gear log book is anything to go by. Also, at our staff meetings there has not been any real pressure for a copy of the D850 - although "well we should get one to have a look at it" has come up once or twice..

Personally I use the 5DSR the latest f2.8 iterations of 16-35, 24-70, 70-200, 85/1.4 for 90% of my work. indoor and out.

 

[Scott Dobry]

Greetings,

I just sold a 5D3 which was a backup to my 5D4. Love the Mark 4 BTW.

Now I'm heavily leaning toward getting a good used 5Ds or 5Dsr to compliment the 5D4. There are times I could use the extra MP. This would be for studio use mostly (strobe).

I know that it's likely that Canon will replace the 5Ds(r) with a Mark 2 this year but I would rather pay 1/2 the price of the Mark 2.

2 questions:

1) To get the "R" version or not. Does moire with fabrics happen often and if so is it easily handled by LR's anti-moire software? Is the R version TOO sharp for people? I suppose in those cases I could go back to the IV. Any other caveats for S or SR?

2) Clients love the ability of the 5D4 to shoot to a tablet via wi-fi for art direction. I see that Canon has the W-E1 SD card wi-fi adapter for $40 designed to achieve the same effect. Does it work?

 

[BlueRay2]

I decided to go for the 5Dsr, here's my reasoning at closer to the time:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57449241

I find I get aliasing or moire very rarely, however I spent a while looking at how several tools handled it. Note that I think DXO have improved since then:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58034634
BTW if you look at the 1:1 crops here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57507061
You can spot a little moire buried in the hair, although really only forum nerds would worry about it in real life.

On the subject of detail I would recommend using the Fine Detail Picture Style for JPEGs as the default, ignoring Standard. It just has a better sharpening algorithm.

I have the W-E1 card and keep it in the SD slot. I find it works well, although you always seem to have to do two clicks more than you should when enabling it (don't miss the last press). Also my iPhone 7 handles the 50MP JPEGs okay and the image processing programs I use on it also work with them (e.g. SnapSeed). I use both the Canon App and Cascable, usually the former for image transfer and the latter for shooting. I haven't done the "using a Tablet for customer preview" thing though, not sure how well that would keep up. On that subject...

I shoot Raw and a large medium JPEG (large fine JPEGs can get stupidly large). Reckon on an average of maybe 76MB per image (9MB for the JPEG, 67MB for the CR2, less if birds against blue sky or similar low-content images). The largest Raw file I have is 94.2MB, you won't see many below 50MB or above 80MB. The largest "large medium" JPEG was 20MB, but that's quite unusual.

Note Memory Card write speeds top out at about 100MB/s so you can fill up the (14 shot) buffer even at just a couple of shots per second if you go on long enough. In-camera write speeds are available here:
http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/canon-5ds/sd-cf-card-comparison/

I have:
SD: SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s 128GB
CF: Lexar Professional 1066x 64GB
Which I have had no issues with.

The most I've shot in a day is just over 50GB (birding), but with some video I could push that up a bit, hence my decision to drop from 128GB to 64GB for the CF card.

I don't have issues with hand-held shots, the pixels are larger than the 24MP APS cameras, so if people can hold them steady...

The video is only FHD (1080p) but if you use the Neutral profile (or the Technicolor CineStyle profile in a Custom Slot) it's very clean, also it does well at night (the video, that is). I don't know what they are doing but it's cleaner than both my GH3 and GH4 (shooting 1080p, the GH4 is on a different planet in 4k). The rolling shutter is 27.7 ms (5Dmk2 is 25.9).

Other thoughts:
Live-View shooting is a bit of a pain with long blackout times. It does shoot the image quite promptly though.
Video users might be unhappy there isn't a clean HDMI.
If you use the crop modes it only crops the JPEG, there is no option to crop the Raw so you don't gain much buffer-wise.

What I'd like in a mk II (but probably won't get most of):
DPAF
In-camera image tagging
Deeper pixels (so lower ISOs possible)
The new AF point illumination scheme
Improved AFC subject tracking
Built-in MFA
Cleverer VF overlay (a hybrid OVF/EVF would be perfect)
In camera shooting for focus stacking
Faster memory cards and faster write speeds
Much deeper buffer
Much better Live View shooting experience
More DR (the mk I doesn't suck though)
Spot meter possible at AF point used
Electronic shutter mode in Live-View, so mirror stays locked up
More options for what you can program onto configurable buttons
Clean HDMI
Built-in and fast WiFi (802.11ac AC1800 or faster)
Bluetooth
4k video so I don't have to carry a second camera if I want that
Built-in radio flash controller
Maybe a fully-articulated touch-screen rear-LCD
Possibly a few more pixels, not really a big thing though

Hope that helps. I've been delighted with mine.

I'd be elated to see half of those features you have noted on the next 5Dsr2! i am not into video but if the next 5Dsr2 has a decent video feature, i may use it once in a while. a fully articulated screen would be a real treat. i'd be waiting eagerly to hear the good news from canon sometimes this year ;-)

 

[Jon555]

...

I'd rather have a touch screen rear LCD that just flaps up and down like the one on the M6. A fully articulated screen like on the GH5 always gets in the way of any rigging and can be quite vulnerable and as the 5ds2 will hardly be a vlogging camera a tougher solution would preferable. Touchscreen and flappy but not too moveable, please!

 

[marshwader]

...

I'd rather have a touch screen rear LCD that just flaps up and down like the one on the M6. A fully articulated screen like on the GH5 always gets in the way of any rigging and can be quite vulnerable and as the 5ds2 will hardly be a vlogging camera a tougher solution would preferable. Touchscreen and flappy but not too moveable, please!

 

[Jon555]

...

I'd rather have a touch screen rear LCD that just flaps up and down like the one on the M6. A fully articulated screen like on the GH5 always gets in the way of any rigging and can be quite vulnerable and as the 5ds2 will hardly be a vlogging camera a tougher solution would preferable. Touchscreen and flappy but not too moveable, please!

--
Machines were mice and men were lions once upon a time. But now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time.

P.S. Having used my fully articulated rear-screen camera over the weekend I realised why I slightly prefer them, I usually have it pointed inwards so it's completely bash-proof. However that's really only a plus if the camera has an EVF.

I can see where you are coming from as I tend to use the GH5 in that way, in part because there is no choice once you've connected an external microphone and headphones. Would be great to have the option to do it both ways. As I learned to my initial great shock, the GH5 and screen are actually pretty tough as it crashed to the floor out of a somewhat haphazard rig. Not a dent or scratch on it and everything seems to still be working. Phew! As you have the GH5 as well have you noticed the rubber coating peeling off under the position where your index finger rests below the shutter button? Seems to happen to many of these cameras. Definitely a flaw in the material:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...my-GH5-Sending-it-in-for-warranty-repair-soon

Mine's 9 days old...
(Traded in my GH3+GH4+battery grip plus £741 for a GH5 and the 12-60 2.8-4, which as the kit usually sells for £2099 and the lens alone, even after cash-back, costs more than that is the deal of the decade. Loving it too - 10bit is really what V-Log L needs and the IBIS is great.)

--
Machines were mice and men were lions once upon a time. But now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time.