tkbslc
Forum Pro
I don't get why someone who says they don't care would waste time worrying about people that do.
Why aren't you out taking pictures right now?
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Data doesn't lie. DSLRs are soon sinking below mirrorless in unit sales.
- Thread starter EcoR1
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No. When one has an inferiority complex, one must constantly argue stats and trends and futures and community in order to feel ok.
Oh wow, if nothing at all changes in 5 years, mirrorless will have similar new body sales to DSLR's! And a few years later, there will be negative sales of DSLR's where camera companies will buy their own products!
Even if any of this were true (it's all debatable) my responses would be:
- So? Who cares?
- What does this have to do with anything? Sales stats don't really have to do with anything. The #1 type of camera in terms of sales today...is smartphones. They also sell fewer high end sports cars than grocery getters.
- Who cares what things are going to look like 5 years out? I may replace my already 3-year old cameras by then. Or I may not. Who cares?
Max Iso
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When some of less savory specs finally get around (like you don't actually get 20fps uncompressed raw, or that the buffer takes a long long time to clear), then there will be a recoil of expectation. Then the A9r/s will launch and it will be the same thing over and over.
Meanwhile of course, all other brands will be standing still...
David Pavlich
Veteran Member
i just watched a video from T&C Northrup. Fill up the buffer with two cards in the camera and the camera is neutered for 3+ minutes until the buffer is cleared. And it's 2 minutes if you have the fastest compatible SD card in the camera by itself. Basically, this is a $4500 wedding camera. I doubt that this camera puts much of a dent in the D5/1DxII fraternity anytime soon.12-bit compressed RAW (of course). It only does 12-bit uncompressed RAW at 12 FPS; and 14-bit RAW's at 5 fps. Call it a "record holder" if you want, though that's more like manipulating the scope of the record than an actual apples-to-apples comparison. Should be fun waiting for that buffer to clear to the SD card...Is the 20 fps the "compressed RAW" or whatever it is that Sony calls it, or is it the full size RAW or whatever it is that Canon calls what I shoot with my 5DIII?Coincidentally, i just got thru watching a "pre-review" of the A9 by the Canadian "The Camera Store" youtube channel. They seem quite convinced that the A9 is a serious challenge/problem for major DSLR makers. Of course, the A9 is the new "record holder" for continuous shooting 20fps for FF ILC camera. The defensive comment has been "who needs 20 fps?" The A9 covers that eventuality by offering 10fps and 5fps continuous as well. Plus the AF speed and hit rate is incredible. The Conversion of ILC cameras to mirrorless had to happen: fewer parts, no wearable parts other than buttonsCipa is an organisation that tracks camera and lens shipments from Japanese companies. From 2012 onward in has reported mirrorless as their own category. Now is a good time to look at all historical data and try to interpret the future.
From the data we can see that with each passing year DSLR-shipmensts are smaller compared to previous year. On the other hand, mirrorless shipments have been very stable during the same period of time. If the trend continues the same, the DSLR-shipmenst are going to sink below mirrorless in few years. That's absolutely clear.
The tipping point could happen even sooner. It seems that Canon is finally trying to put their mirrorless act together by releasing more serious EOS-M-cameras. Nikon has also stated that they will concentrate more on higher end-market - meaning that entry level DSLR-shipments are going down.
What do you think? When the DSLR-camera shipments sink below mirrorless?), etc. Its no accident that the two new Medium Format cameras in the industry, i.e the Hasselblad and the Fuji have both been designed from the ground up as mirrorless cameras.
I estimate 2020 as the point where mirrorless sales reach 50% to 50% parity with DSLRs.
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David
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For example, the Nikon D5 does 12 FPS @ 14-bit uncompressed; 14 FPS @ 14-bit uncompressed (mirror up); and 30 FPS JPEG in live view. Dual XQD cards.
Obviously this is irrelevant to this crowd that is more concerned with stats than taking pictures.
Or, you can buy two A9s so that when one is stalled, you can shoot with the other. ;-)
David
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Is that the video titled "Sony a9 Hands-on: A $4,500 Canon 1DX Killer!" perchance...?
Where they praise silent mode, no EVF blackout, Sony's responsiveness to customers?
No, it was the hands-on, where they praised the silent shutter, EVF no-blackout (and Tony saying he could never go back to a DSLR), got 5 hours / 4000+ frames on a single battery, and Tony said he'd rather have the a9 than a 1DX or D5.
Is filling the buffer a flaw resulting from its being mirrorless? Or just Sony not using the fastest possible memory cards?
The a9 certainly is not perfect, especially with lenses. But it certainly shows how mirrorless is not only capable of photographing sports at a very high level, but that it has at least two major advantages over DSLRs (silent shutter and no EVF blackout).
And even as a "mere" wedding and event camera, it can likely chew up more DSLR market share.
tko
Forum Pro
EcoR1 has not uploaded any photos to their gallery yet.
EcoR1 has not submitted any challenge entries yet.
EcoR1 does not have a web site yet.
I don't get photographers who think news and reviews of equipment they don't own magically transfers status. I want a black car. Black cars are selling well. I'm in with the in-crowd and I'm cool.
EcoR1 has not submitted any challenge entries yet.
EcoR1 does not have a web site yet.
I don't get photographers who think news and reviews of equipment they don't own magically transfers status. I want a black car. Black cars are selling well. I'm in with the in-crowd and I'm cool.
n3eg
Senior Member
And Nikon could make a serious mirrorless camera too, and we can use it to photograph pigs in flight.
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It may not prove anything you brought up, but...
It seems to prove the OP's infatuation all thing Sony/Mirrorless though.
I was impressed with his wish list...
If the old king refuses to die, how can a crown price become king...
It seems to prove the OP's infatuation all thing Sony/Mirrorless though.
I was impressed with his wish list...
If the old king refuses to die, how can a crown price become king...
yes, funny how so many have such an insecurity complex that they need to validate their purchases in the forums .
Ben Stonewall
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David Pavlich
Veteran Member
Yep...that's the one! Sony, for whatever reason, chose to use the SD cards that they did. I would say that was a poor choice, especially that when using two cards, the choice of professionals, it's a 3+ minute buffer. It's a non starter for the pro that makes his or her living with a high performance camera.
And as far as a wedding/event camera, that $4500 price tag and weak lens line up pretty much ensures that it'll be a substantial amount of time before the DSLR isn't the choice of wedding/event shooter.
It's a terrific camera, but to say it's the be all end all of cameras is wishful thinking. Heck, even for me with my big hands, it's a non starter as you probably noticed in that video of the guy with the hands larger than Chelsea's found it quite uncomfortable. But my 5DIII with a grip is comfortable and balances big lenses, Canon lenses, quite nicely.
David
Edit: And one more thing; Sony has an overheating reputation. Let's see how it works in the Gulf South in August.
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I too don't understand what all the fuss is about. Why all these threads on DSLR sales vs mirrorless, etc. And so what if sales of one type are sinking. Will your camera all of a sudden stop working if say Nikon or Canon gets out of the camera business? Sure there may not be any new cameras of a particular brand, but today's cameras are so feature laden, provide such good image quality, and offer so many lens choices, why worry. I thought the objective of photography is to capture image, not sales and marketing strategy. Why not enjoy using your your camera and take some pictures instead of worrying about which company is selling the most cameras.
When do you think anyone will give a flying flip about what kind of camera outsells which other kind?
Other than the terminally insecure mirrorless users, who seem to find this discussion as vindication of their choice of camera.
Suggestion: take up photography as a hobby, instead of 'cameras'.
Give him a chance. He's only been here three years. Sooner or later he may actually USE his camera to take a few photos worthy of sharing.
His hobby is not photography, his hobby is cameras. "My gee whiz electronic viewfinder is so peachy keen kewl that it has to has to has to be just THE BEST kind of camera! And when it sells more than DSLR's it will PROVE I bought THE BEST kind of camera at last!"
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jameszhan
Leading Member
You are merely stating a fact that no one is trying to disagree. It looks like it's not that mirrorless is rising, but more like less and less people buy DSLR cameras because DSLR camera shipments are decreasing, the mirrorless ones aren't increasing at the same time. This could be because phones are getting better and better at taking photos, or just less and less people are doing photography nowadays--it could be because of many reasons.Cipa is an organisation that tracks camera and lens shipments from Japanese companies. From 2012 onward in has reported mirrorless as their own category. Now is a good time to look at all historical data and try to interpret the future.
From the data we can see that with each passing year DSLR-shipmensts are smaller compared to previous year. On the other hand, mirrorless shipments have been very stable during the same period of time. If the trend continues the same, the DSLR-shipmenst are going to sink below mirrorless in few years. That's absolutely clear.
The tipping point could happen even sooner. It seems that Canon is finally trying to put their mirrorless act together by releasing more serious EOS-M-cameras. Nikon has also stated that they will concentrate more on higher end-market - meaning that entry level DSLR-shipments are going down.
What do you think? When the DSLR-camera shipments sink below mirrorless?
Mirrorless cameras are gaining popularity yes, but I don't think--not for the foreseeable future at least--mirrorless cameras will replace DSLRs because DSLR cameras have many advantages over mirrorless ones (so far). It's more like there is one more kind of camera gaining popularity.
You're seemingly getting really defensive over this camera and getting out of scope. This sub-thread was a specific response to the FPS comments in this post.
That post claims that 20 FPS is record for FF burst rate (which is not a record as it was stated there). For example, the Nikon D5 shoots 30 FPS. In reality, the image quality is compromised for both of these cameras at these high burst rates. In the Sony, maximum image quality is limited to 5 FPS, while the Nikon does 12-14 at maximum image quality. That's the scope here.
Nothing to do with silent mode, EVF blackout, Sony's responsiveness to customers, shooting sports, shooting weddings, etc.
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