70d focus issues or maybe I'm doing something wrong...

[Steveep]

So I have owned the 70d for about 6 weeks now, having owned the (now ancient) 400d, and basically have been disappointed with the results I'm getting. I have the 18-135mm stm, the sigma 17-50 f2.8 and recently purchased the canon 24mm f2.8 stm and the 50mm stm. All those lenses have excellent reviews.

My initial thinking was the sigma could pretty much do the job of the two primes without the hassle of changing lenses but the results suggest different so I bought the primes.

After some research, the 70d auto focus issue soon reared it's head and I assumed my body suffered from this. Last night I tried some focus tests (live view vs view finder) hoping that my lenses just needed some micro adjustment. Unfortunately this wasn't the case, the results from the live view matched those of the view finder results. And both sets were acceptably sharp.

So my issue now is essentially where am I going wrong here? I'm by no means an expert, but I think I know my way around appropriate apertures, shutter speeds and iso etc. Perhaps not.

My main subject is my 2 year old boy, so he's at full speed in everything he does. That's why I opted for the wide aperture lenses, especially as they are so highly regarded and good value for money. But first use of them at the weekend was disappointing.

So really I want to know what I should be doing differently to get sharp shots. And how sharp should I expect? At full magnification, the test shots I took last night were sharp, and whilst that was with a perfectly still camera, the lighting was poor. The photos from the weekend were on a sunny autumnal day, so surely the 24mm should've taken this in its stride? I tried A mode at varying apertures and P mode.

Generally speaking I shoot in P mode, but I'm not happy with the results, whereas the old 400d was fine left on P.

Happy to post images and exif etc to help you help me!

I guess I'm hoping to suss out if I do in fact have a dodgy camera or if it's me. Because if the camera itself isn't working correctly, I'd like to get the looked at asap.

I'm thinking my next port of call is the local camera shop to see if they can advise.

Thanks in advance

 

[JRWood]

Start with using a shutter speed of 1/500. That should cut out any camera shake and freeze action from the baby.

If that clears it up you can probably lower the shutter speed as needed.

 

[Buchanan]

Are any portion of the pictures in focus? (ruling out front- and back-focus).

Are you set to single focus point or are you having all of them active?

Examples are always a plus. Can you post some of your pics here?

 

[canonvaggio]

So I have owned the 70d for about 6 weeks now, having owned the (now ancient) 400d, and basically have been disappointed with the results I'm getting. I have the 18-135mm stm, the sigma 17-50 f2.8...

Sigma... here we go again... :-(

After some research, the 70d auto focus issue soon reared it's head

There is no "70D auto focus issue". Superficially reading internet forum chatter, without the benefit of experience and critical thinking, is like typing "back pain" into Google, and then self-diagnosing cancer based on a few hits.

Last night I tried some focus tests (live view vs view finder) hoping that my lenses just needed some micro adjustment. Unfortunately this wasn't the case, the results from the live view matched those of the view finder results. And both sets were acceptably sharp.

If LiveView (contrast AF) matches viewfinder (phase detect AF), then you don't have any AF problem. Period.

So my issue now is essentially where am I going wrong here? I'm by no means an expert, but I think I know my way around appropriate apertures, shutter speeds and iso etc. Perhaps not.

Perhaps not. Please post an example or two, and note if it's a raw conversion, or if camera jpeg what picture style and changes you have selected. Also what AF point selection you used.

 

[jjoven]

I have 70D with same lens as you except that I sold the 24mm STM as I feel i get the same image with my Sigma 17-50. And I also shoot my 1 year old who always runs around and play with the dog and I try to capture them playing indoors.

My advice is to shoot in TV mode and set it to 125, 160, 200, or 250 and set the ISO to A.
You're aperture will pretty much pretty much set to the lowest unless you're using the 50mm STM. So really the camera is just setting the ISO. Next use spot meter the only downside is you're forced to use the center point. You can use center if you're 2 year old is all over the frame. You can also use servo mode if you like. Try those settings and see if you get better results.

 

[yokochanie]

I brought a 70D in Japan. Took appox 15,000 pictures. Distant shots were good, but felt soft. Closer shots were soft. Sometimes there was a picture that jumped out; pin sharp.

I thought it was me, the way I used it. My 40 and 60D were working perfectly. the 17-55 and 70-200 were excellent, but I just couldn't get the tack sharpness on the 70D.

Used in 'Live mode' it was fantastic. But normal mode then it was just rubbish. Focus point would show lit up in software on a wall 70 feet away....totally out of focus, but a tree, 20 feet away, no where near the focus point would be sharp.

Canon UK agreed to 'look at it' (despite the warrenty applying to Japan and Asian only), and as a gesture of goodwill changed the entire AF system. The pictures then were perfect, but I couldn't use the camera because now the viewfinder was soft and the picture sharp, or else in manual mode, the viewfinder was sharp and the picture soft. Back to canon.

Another goodwill gesture, replacing the prism and focussing screen.

Now the picture quality on distant shots is excellent, but can vary. Four at 1000th second, tripod, mirror lock up showed three tact sharp, one soft. Closer pictures so far suggests the focus is not working well at all. Early days...will test it out at the weekend and see then.

The funny thing is I totally love the camera, it's perfect other then it can't take pictures well!

You need to seriously test the camera out. Use live view, then use viewfinder view. Same pictures, all on tripods. 4 at least of each one, see if focus is consistent. (Consistently good or if bad, in the same way or randomly focussing). Avoid centre spot, (issues with that on some cameras).

People from America, Europe and now my Japanese model suggest the problem is real and is some design fault. However, many have returned and exchanged only to find they have a model that is perfect. Some have had repairs, and also found it is perfect. Until the weekend when I plan to do some serious testing I don't know if my is or not. Long shots seem acceptable in that tack sharp and 3 out of 4 I can live with. But closer shots seem to be poor....so far.

So test and test and test. Then decide if you want a new one or want it repaired. Canon deny there is a problem. And while a lot jump on the band wagon on the internet and blame their camera for their own faults, two many posts detailing the problem so well that one has to accept that a lot of the 70ds do have a focus issue.

 

[Kaso]

I totally love the camera, it's perfect other then it can't take pictures well!

?????

How can a camera be "perfect" when it can do many things well except taking pictures?

I've had my 70D since December 2013 and been using it with many different lenses by Canon and Sigma, including the 50/1.4, 17-50/2.8 and 17-70/2.8-4. I've shot hand-held through OVF and on tripod through LV, inside, outside, during the day, in the evening... Thousands of nice images, with hundreds of really special ones.

The "problem" could be from 70D body sample variations, or it could be from user skill variations. No offense, but a realistic possibility.

As the OP suggested in the title,"maybe I'm doing something wrong." Without "problem photos" for people to offer concrete and constructive suggestions, this thread is as useful as a nice camera without battery.

 

[rocky01]

Check this out and let me know what you think:

I hail from the film days and still found value in his series. AF doesn't always mean point and shoot. This guy has some good tips.

 

[skanter]

Generally speaking I shoot in P mode, but I'm not happy with the results, whereas the old 400d was fine left on P.

P mode is a bad idea. Almost totally auto. Use M, set your aperture and speed (high), use auto-ISO. See how that works out

 

[H2O Junkie]

I am on the side of those who are saying you are making a huge error using P mode. You quite simply have an expensive P&S camera. What I am about to tell you will vary from camera to camera so you will have to refer to your owner's manual to see how your particular model reaches these settings.

First, AF. On moving targets I MUCH prefer using single point focus coupled with AI Servo mode. Using those two allows the user to press the button half-way and as long as the focal point is kept on target, the camera will maintain razor sharp focus, forsaking the other elements in the photo.

Using multi point is allowing the camera to use focus averaging on various points that IT (the AI) feels are important to the photo. It will then average the focus to cover the chosen points. By averaging the focus, the odds of the image being soft are high depending on the setting of the aperture and the focal plane.

Second, switch to aperture or shutter priority. Depending on the subject and the light I am shooting, I will choose one of those two to get what I want to achieve. If the light is constantly changing I will use Auto ISO.

Odds are if you use those settings, it will change the way you shoot. It will take a little practice. If you are using a flash keep in mind the flash won't meter until the button is pushed all the way down. If you don't pay attention to the color the focal point is on in flash use images, the variations in color response to light can give you the illusion that your TTL is not working correctly. You have to pay special attention to that focal point when using TTL flash...

 

[Steveep]

That's really interesting, as P mode was what I used almost exclusively on the older dslr. But hey, I don't care if I don't use it, it's not like it's substantially easier than av or TV.
Since I posted this I haven't had a whole lost of chance to get out and use the camera, but on the couple of occasions, I have made sure to try TV mode and try and monitor what is a suitable shutter speed. 1/500 seemed to be returning some nice shots.

In addition, I've tried to resist the urge to use f2.8 on the primes as all write ups conclude they aren't that sharp at that.

I appreciate this was in most terms a useless thread, but in the same respect I got a couple of answers that have helped me, so thanks.

 

[cberry]

So I have owned the 70d for about 6 weeks now, having owned the (now ancient) 400d, and basically have been disappointed with the results I'm getting. I have the 18-135mm stm, the sigma 17-50 f2.8...

Sigma... here we go again... :-(

After some research, the 70d auto focus issue soon reared it's head

There is no "70D auto focus issue". Superficially reading internet forum chatter, without the benefit of experience and critical thinking, is like typing "back pain" into Google, and then self-diagnosing cancer based on a few hits.

Last night I tried some focus tests (live view vs view finder) hoping that my lenses just needed some micro adjustment. Unfortunately this wasn't the case, the results from the live view matched those of the view finder results. And both sets were acceptably sharp.

If LiveView (contrast AF) matches viewfinder (phase detect AF), then you don't have any AF problem. Period.

So my issue now is essentially where am I going wrong here? I'm by no means an expert, but I think I know my way around appropriate apertures, shutter speeds and iso etc. Perhaps not.

Perhaps not. Please post an example or two, and note if it's a raw conversion, or if camera jpeg what picture style and changes you have selected. Also what AF point selection you used.

I hate to say it but there is a 70D AF issue - one that can be corrected at Canon by recalibrating the AF sensor points. It's rare though. More common is LoCA causing AF errors due to lens design such as with the 50mm f/1.8.

My take on the issue is:

Rule out technique

Rule out MFA

Rule out lens decentering.

Rule out Focus variance (difference between focusing on the same subject 2 different times)

Rule out differences in focus points.

cb

 

[canonvaggio]

So I have owned the 70d for about 6 weeks now, having owned the (now ancient) 400d, and basically have been disappointed with the results I'm getting. I have the 18-135mm stm, the sigma 17-50 f2.8...

Sigma... here we go again... :-(

After some research, the 70d auto focus issue soon reared it's head

There is no "70D auto focus issue". Superficially reading internet forum chatter, without the benefit of experience and critical thinking, is like typing "back pain" into Google, and then self-diagnosing cancer based on a few hits.

Last night I tried some focus tests (live view vs view finder) hoping that my lenses just needed some micro adjustment. Unfortunately this wasn't the case, the results from the live view matched those of the view finder results. And both sets were acceptably sharp.

If LiveView (contrast AF) matches viewfinder (phase detect AF), then you don't have any AF problem. Period.

So my issue now is essentially where am I going wrong here? I'm by no means an expert, but I think I know my way around appropriate apertures, shutter speeds and iso etc. Perhaps not.

Perhaps not. Please post an example or two, and note if it's a raw conversion, or if camera jpeg what picture style and changes you have selected. Also what AF point selection you used.

I hate to say it but there is a 70D AF issue - one that can be corrected at Canon by recalibrating the AF sensor points.

Source?

It's rare though.

Source?

More common is LoCA causing AF errors due to lens design such as with the 50mm f/1.8.

Link to testing that reproduces this?

 

[cberry]

My source? My personal experience working very closely with Canon who bent over backwards for my every request and gave me absolutely fantastic service, troubleshooting and calibrating my then 650D and now 70D over a period of months.

I wouldn't like to put names to the long story in public as can count 2 of them as personal friends who appreciated me as a very knowledgeable and demanding customer - and came through for me.

Let's just say that some lenses are particularly bad and every once in a while phase detect may play up on one or more AF points. Wider than f/2.8 on some lenses can be particularly tricky to achieve with the sensor resolution that we have. The 50mm f/1.8 II is excellent optically for instance but was never meant to resolve the sensor densities we have today on APS-C mechanically - that's precision well beyond the original design.

The longitudinal chromatic aberration especially at larger apertures causes it's own headaches with some lenses.

A few bodies did slip through causing a few headaches with some lenses - if you consider the number of permutations of body/lens - it's amazing the problem isn't worse.

That being said, it's just a table that needs to be updated to bring the sensors into line.

cb

 

[canonvaggio]

My source? My personal experience working very closely with Canon who bent over backwards for my every request and gave me absolutely fantastic service, troubleshooting and calibrating my then 650D and now 70D over a period of months.

I wouldn't like to put names to the long story in public as can count 2 of them as personal friends who appreciated me as a very knowledgeable and demanding customer - and came through for me.

So your answer is that you've talked to Canon customer service "closely", about an unrelated camera, with an unrelated problem? Ok, got it.

So clearly, regarding your statements:

I hate to say it but there is a 70D AF issue - one that can be corrected at Canon by recalibrating the AF sensor points.

This is merely opinion, with no evidence to support it.

It's rare though.

Fabricated out of thin air!

More common is LoCA causing AF errors due to lens design such as with the 50mm f/1.8.

You have no testing or evidence of any kind to support this.

I thought this was a photography forum, not a creative writing fiction workshop.

 

[digitalcuriosity]

That's really interesting, as P mode was what I used almost exclusively on the older dslr. But hey, I don't care if I don't use it, it's not like it's substantially easier than av or TV.
Since I posted this I haven't had a whole lost of chance to get out and use the camera, but on the couple of occasions, I have made sure to try TV mode and try and monitor what is a suitable shutter speed. 1/500 seemed to be returning some nice shots.

In addition, I've tried to resist the urge to use f2.8 on the primes as all write ups conclude they aren't that sharp at that.

I appreciate this was in most terms a useless thread, but in the same respect I got a couple of answers that have helped me, so thanks.

Since it's a fast moving object "your child" you need to capture in pictures,maybe trading the Canon 70D for the Canon 7DII would solve the focus issue you have with the 70D.

 

[Kaso]

I thought this was a photography forum, not a creative writing fiction workshop.

Photography forum???

Regarding this claim, you are perhaps the one who's being "creative."

 

[cberry]

My source? My personal experience working very closely with Canon who bent over backwards for my every request and gave me absolutely fantastic service, troubleshooting and calibrating my then 650D and now 70D over a period of months.

I wouldn't like to put names to the long story in public as can count 2 of them as personal friends who appreciated me as a very knowledgeable and demanding customer - and came through for me.

So your answer is that you've talked to Canon customer service "closely", about an unrelated camera, with an unrelated problem? Ok, got it.

Um not quite.

So clearly, regarding your statements:

I hate to say it but there is a 70D AF issue - one that can be corrected at Canon by recalibrating the AF sensor points.

This is merely opinion, with no evidence to support it.

It's actually in the internal service advisory for the 70D

It's rare though.

Fabricated out of thin air!

So fabricated that Canon have documented it.

More common is LoCA causing AF errors due to lens design such as with the 50mm f/1.8.

You have no testing or evidence of any kind to support this.

Placing a false aperture in front of the lens cures the AF variability. This reduces LoCA.

I thought this was a photography forum, not a creative writing fiction workshop.

If that's your interpretation - fine. I do find that the respect you afford others is a reflection on yourself which is unflattering in the least. The respect that my friends at Canon gained from me for their hard work is actually quite insulting. It was above and beyond the call of duty, to come round to my home, perform some tests with me, loan me $1,000s of equipment (some of it their personal equipment) for trips overseas, be in touch on a weekly basis, include me in the technical discussion among many other things.

What do you call someone who belittles good service, knowledge, personal experience in the manner you have just done?

 

[canonvaggio]

My source? My personal experience working very closely with Canon who bent over backwards for my every request and gave me absolutely fantastic service, troubleshooting and calibrating my then 650D and now 70D over a period of months.

I wouldn't like to put names to the long story in public as can count 2 of them as personal friends who appreciated me as a very knowledgeable and demanding customer - and came through for me.

So your answer is that you've talked to Canon customer service "closely", about an unrelated camera, with an unrelated problem? Ok, got it.

Um not quite.

So clearly, regarding your statements:

I hate to say it but there is a 70D AF issue - one that can be corrected at Canon by recalibrating the AF sensor points.

This is merely opinion, with no evidence to support it.

It's actually in the internal service advisory for the 70D

Can you post it, or link to it?

It's rare though.

Fabricated out of thin air!

So fabricated that Canon have documented it.

I can't find it anywhere on their site. Where do you see it.

More common is LoCA causing AF errors due to lens design such as with the 50mm f/1.8.

You have no testing or evidence of any kind to support this.

Placing a false aperture in front of the lens cures the AF variability. This reduces LoCA.

I thought this was a photography forum, not a creative writing fiction workshop.

If that's your interpretation - fine. I do find that the respect you afford others is a reflection on yourself which is unflattering in the least. The respect that my friends at Canon gained from me for their hard work is actually quite insulting. It was above and beyond the call of duty, to come round to my home, perform some tests with me, loan me $1,000s of equipment (some of it their personal equipment) for trips overseas, be in touch on a weekly basis, include me in the technical discussion among many other things.

What do you call someone who belittles good service, knowledge, personal experience in the manner you have just done?

I'm not 'dissing' Canon or Canon support. I'm just trying to get corroboration of what you're saying. You're choosing to take that personally.

 

[cberry]

It's an internal service advisory. Call Canon and tell them you have a problem with larger aperture lenses using the higher precision AF sensor - but you'll need to speak to the service manager at the very least.

It was investigated, documented and the advisory produced internally - it may affect as few as 1 in 100 bodies before Dec 2014 (my estimate) and only with certain lenses and one or other AF point - usually the center double-cross type f/2.8 or greater enables sensor.

More critical is how some lenses - especially older ones behave on NxxD bodies. (e.g. 650D) the 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8 for instance may be completely useless (IMHO) wide open with no remedy. I had an 85mm that needed +18 MFA I loved the green/magenta OOF areas but not on my subject! Obviously, the lack of MFA means that you'll need to shoot at f/4 or smaller especially on a crop sensor which magnifies bad focus that much more.

It's not that you can't use the lens - you just get more value from NxD bodies and up.

In effect, it's a far bigger difference than the smaller upgrades in sensor capabilities and probably the biggest advance between the 40D and 50D bodies.

cb