Why a Mac and not PC

[Earendil_Star]

I've been an Apple owner for more than 10 years and I finally got
fed up with the lack of easily available hardware/software and
always checking to see if something would work on the mac.

I'm sorry you feel that way, you are a first (see one of my posts above).

Personally I've never checked software/hardware to see if it'll work. Well that's not entirely true, I used to check game titles when I was 12.

If you ever go back, or even as a windows user, you should check out Download.com and Versiontracker.com for loads of freeware and shareware. Though be warned, now that you are on WIndows you should be very careful what you download.

The other day, I went to a store to get a card reader, a router.
Some games were on sale. So I got the software too. My external
DVD burner died. I got a new DVD burner at BJ for $90. It has
USB. Then I picked up an external USB hard drive for $220.

To carify his point, I dare someone to find me a any of those hardware items that don't work in OSX. Unless it is a cheapo item from a company no one has heard of, just about any of those items, in any flavor, will work under OSX.

There are of course some obscure pieces of hardware that can be found that don't work, for example some thumb print readers don't work, nor do some GPS units (because they rely on their own software).

I run 6 peices of external hardware off my laptop and din't check any of it.

After I got home, I realize that I forgot to check to see if the
software/hardware would work on my computer. Everything worked.
Because I had a PC.

Wait 6 months, something won't work right

Tyler

 

[thirdlife]

I've been running Vista Beta 2 for over a month and love it.

The reason I mentioned it was because its FREE (and BETA ) and it has a GUI very candy or OS X like, but the comfort or layout that the original poster maybe comfortable with.

Don't get me wrong, I use Mac's too, but why try to reteach something new when old habits still work. Err...something like that.

--
Jesse A.
-------Ultra-Amature Time Capture Snatcher--------
My stock photo portfolio
http://www.dreamstime.com/resp155987
and other photos http://jascher.smugmug.com/

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

I've been an Apple owner for more than 10 years and I finally got
fed up with the lack of easily available hardware/software and
always checking to see if something would work on the mac.

I'm sorry you feel that way, you are a first (see one of my posts
above).

Personally I've never checked software/hardware to see if it'll
work. Well that's not entirely true, I used to check game titles
when I was 12.
If you ever go back, or even as a windows user, you should check
out Download.com and Versiontracker.com for loads of freeware and
shareware. Though be warned, now that you are on WIndows you should
be very careful what you download.

The other day, I went to a store to get a card reader, a router.
Some games were on sale. So I got the software too. My external
DVD burner died. I got a new DVD burner at BJ for $90. It has
USB. Then I picked up an external USB hard drive for $220.

To carify his point, I dare someone to find me a any of those
hardware items that don't work in OSX. Unless it is a cheapo item
from a company no one has heard of, just about any of those items,
in any flavor, will work under OSX.

There are of course some obscure pieces of hardware that can be
found that don't work, for example some thumb print readers don't
work, nor do some GPS units (because they rely on their own
software).

I run 6 peices of external hardware off my laptop and din't check
any of it.

After I got home, I realize that I forgot to check to see if the
software/hardware would work on my computer. Everything worked.
Because I had a PC.

Wait 6 months, something won't work right

Tyler

A lot of hardware does support OSX, though some doesnt. It would be fair to say that like it or not windows has more hardware and software support in general. Its not a huge issue though...most printers etc will work with mac...

What is an issue is when a mac owner wishes to upgrade comoonents. CPU is a problem, graphics cards are more expensive...not good.

I can whip my processor out in minutes and plonk something else in there..not so with a mac....

The upgrade factor is a key issue as to why a pc is a better long term investment, one could easily build a low cost system using a budget cpu and upgrade it later on, pick your own graphics card, memory, brand of hard disk. Its a clear winner for the DIY builder...

Apple wont ever take the mass market until they wake up to the fact they should be a software company..not a hardware one. I know this isnt popular with mac owners...but this is the way forward...

OSX would do very well up against windows...

 

[pixelbender]

Can't OS X setup a samba share that is seen by Windows?
Anyone help me out with this?

OS X can both host or connect to an SMB share regardless of the
underlying file system. That is, an OS X machine can share files
in such a way that a Windows machine can see them, as well as
connect to a directory shared on a remote Windows machine. This
protocol abstracts the underling mechanism, so the filesystem used
on the drive is irrelavant for networked file sharing purposes. As
such, the two platforms can communicate in a relatively transparent
manner so users won't have any problems in this regard.

Thanks for sharing that information. I hadn't used it before, but it literally took me less than 20 seconds to setup.

The NTFS restriction only applies to locally connected drives.
Naturally it may be an issue with external 1394/USB drives, however
those are generally formatted with FAT32 (unless the user
consciously changes the setting). NTFS is typically used for
internal hard drives, which are unlikely to find their way into a
Mac (unless you're running Bootcamp or a pirated copy of OS X x86).

I'm pretty sure you can't write to an NTFS partition on another computer when connected over a network. I mean, it is a limitation of OS X, not something that is just imposed upon local drives. Am I wrong?
--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[pixelbender]

Apple's line of displays (stand alone, that is) are very good for
LCDs in terms of color calibrations. Don't get me wrong, they
aren't as good as those monitors that are four times as much, but
then again those costs four times as much for a reason.

However, Dell has used the same panels as some of Apple's LCDs in
their monitors, which can usually be had for much less and come
with more input features. Looking for a 20" LCD? I recommend the
2005FPW

snip

I'd like to add that I would also suggest that monitor, I have one,
it's incredible for the price. However there are design issues that
cause it to not live up the Apple display with the same panel. The
dell bleeds light around the edges which is particularly noticable
in a dark room. However I only ever do Photography work during the
day, or with light, and work in the dark for papers and the
occasional game.

That is true. But if you buy from Dell, you have a 3 year warranty. If it bleeds you can just send it back for another one. The newer 2007FPW has MANY MANY more quality issues than the 2005FPW.

Also Apple's displays are, for the most part, the 4x as much
displays ;-)
They iwll cost more than just about every other monitor out there
in it's catagory, but that is in part due to the certification they
recieve.
I wouldn't buy an Apple monitor unless you have the cash, or you
really want one of THE best monitors. Otherwise another quality
display will work quite well and you probably won't notice the
difference.

The Apple LCDs cost say twice as much as the other consumer models such as the Dells. I was referring to the ultra-high color corrected LCDs that go for a lot. It is my opinion that if you get a non-defective Dell LCD you'll be able to calibrate it pretty well, and it won't set you back much.

tYLER

--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[Earendil_Star]

A lot of hardware does support OSX, though some doesnt. It would be
fair to say that like it or not windows has more hardware and
software support in general. Its not a huge issue though...most
printers etc will work with mac...

Yes, Windows has more software and hardware options. But What you have to ask yourself is how many different printer options you really need, and how many different word documents do you really need? There are very few niche areas that don't have a very good software solution that compares to the windows side. I listed a few in my previous post.

More is not always better anyway. If the top ten applications out of 50 run on a Mac, you can be sure to not get confused picking from one of the 50 on the windows side.

What is an issue is when a mac owner wishes to upgrade comoonents.
CPU is a problem, graphics cards are more expensive...not good.

CPU is a problem? AFAIK you could swap the IBM procs, though they were expensive. And Apple now uses Intel chips, which are easily swapable. Graphics cards are essentially the same, though I'm not up to speed on how the new Intel chips/boards handle 3D cards.

I can whip my processor out in minutes and plonk something else in
there..not so with a mac....

Watch me? ;-)

The upgrade factor is a key issue as to why a pc is a better long
term investment, one could easily build a low cost system using a
budget cpu and upgrade it later on, pick your own graphics card,
memory, brand of hard disk. Its a clear winner for the DIY
builder...

I'm sorry, but you're flat out wrong there. Upgrading is NOT a key issue. 0.00001% of computer users upgrade their computers. The average home user doesn't, they are lucky if they ever upgrade they ever upgrade their OS (many don't even buy software). Companies trash they computers and buy all new ones. Universities do the same.

The only people that actually swap out procs are the gamers looking to stay completely current and the IT guys that know what they're doing, and they do it on their own home computers.

Being able to swap a proc or paying $50 more for the latest 3D card is about the weakest argument for dealing with Windows I've ever heard. Sorry. It's almost as weak as saying Apple won't be top dog until they respect the gamers and pay gaming companies to develope top notch games for OSX.

Apple wont ever take the mass market until they wake up to the fact
they should be a software company..not a hardware one. I know this
isnt popular with mac owners...but this is the way forward...

Perhaps. You are right that the reason most people buy Apple computers is for the OS. If Apple hardware disappeared I'd glady buy a Toshiba laptop, and pay $500 more to put OSX on it.

However,in the mean time, Apple's incredible hardware design (not just athestics), quality construction, and industry top costumer service are great bonus and will keep me buying.

Besides, I need a laptop for 60% of my work, especially when doing Photography on the go. You can't build a laptop that comes close to the power and size of the MacBook Pros.

OSX would do very well up against windows...

It does to very well up against windows

It's understandable that if you want a cheap system and save every penny that you would build your own PC (from the same parts that Apple computers are made from). However the OS alone is, for me, worth the extra cost and the no hassle of dealing with broken hardware and making sure it all works together.

If something breaks APple overnights me a box that perfectly fits my machine, with a prepaid overnight label back.
The first and only time I've sent my computer in, it was back to me in 4 days.

Tyler

 

[Earendil_Star]

I've been running Vista Beta 2 for over a month and love it.

The reason I mentioned it was because its FREE (and BETA ) and
it has a GUI very candy or OS X like, but the comfort or layout
that the original poster maybe comfortable with.

If Vista is really the next thing for the windows side it may be worth getting to know now. Personally I wouldn't put vista on my main machine for a while after all the inevitable bugs and querks are worked out. You can bet there are people already working on breaking Vista so as to make a huge splash when it is officially released.

Don't get me wrong, I use Mac's too, but why try to reteach
something new when old habits still work. Err...something like
that.

I won't point out that you are posting on a digital SLR forum ;-)

 

[pixelbender]

Been a member of MacRumors for many years now. That was the other forum I was referring to in one of my posts. Yes you're get a bias over there, but that doesn't mean you won't also get help.

Any question you have regarding Apple hardware or software can be answered either at MacRumors.com or at Apple's support forums (aka discussion forums) on their website. I'd say you'd be able to answer 98% of your questions between the two, and if it can't be answered, then you probably need some of that world-class Applecare support to fix your computer.

Oh, and as far as their "photography" forum goes - I've been trying it recently, and OUCH it just isn't the same as over here.

pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[Earendil_Star]

I'd like to add that I would also suggest that monitor, I have one,
it's incredible for the price. However there are design issues that
cause it to not live up the Apple display with the same panel. The
dell bleeds light around the edges which is particularly noticable
in a dark room. However I only ever do Photography work during the
day, or with light, and work in the dark for papers and the
occasional game.

That is true. But if you buy from Dell, you have a 3 year warranty.
If it bleeds you can just send it back for another one. The newer
2007FPW has MANY MANY more quality issues than the 2005FPW.

It bleeds light around the edges, which is a fact of the 2005FPW Dell monitors. I knew about it before I bought it, and sure enough it exists. It is not something that Dell will replace.

My point was that sometimes you pay for better design, not just the lcd lanel that resides behind the case.
Also, to my knowledge the backlite is different on the Apple monitors.

This is a widely discussed topic on Apple forums

Tyler

 

[pixelbender]

The Beta download period from Microsoft is over, so it isn't "free" anymore.

I am currently running a 2ghz Macbook (non-pro) that is running 10.4 on it, but I also have Vista Beta 2 installed via BootCamp as well for those times when I need to run DVDFab and the like.

I also have another Core Duo mac (soon to be upgraded to the Core 2 Duo) that I use for photography only. My one other computer is an old Thinkpad 600 that I use for DOS games and a few 98 ones (ahh the good ole days).

Hopefully what I use myself will put into perspective all the comments I've made in this thread.
--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[pixelbender]

I've been an Apple owner for more than 10 years and I finally got
fed up with the lack of easily available hardware/software and
always checking to see if something would work on the mac.

Perhaps you should upgrade your 10 year old hardware and you'd see better results? Please let us know what your most recent piece of Apple hardware is.

The other day, I went to a store to get a card reader, a router.

ALL of which will work with OS X, WITHOUT having to install drivers like you might have to do for the card reader in Windows.

Some games were on sale. So I got the software too.

They make games for OS X. Go to Apple.com and buy some. Also check out VersionTracker.com for many free software titles available for OS X.

My external
DVD burner died. I got a new DVD burner at BJ for $90. It has
USB. Then I picked up an external USB hard drive for $220.

ALL of which will work with OS X, again WITHOUT having to install drivers.

After I got home, I realize that I forgot to check to see if the
software/hardware would work on my computer. Everything worked.
Because I had a PC.

Everything you just bought would have also worked on a Mac, by simply plugging them in!

--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[Thomas Sapiano]

I'm pretty sure you can't write to an NTFS partition on another
computer when connected over a network. I mean, it is a limitation
of OS X, not something that is just imposed upon local drives. Am
I wrong?

When you are using a network share, the computer doesn't have access to the underlying file system - it issues commands, and the computer hosting the share does that work. The computer accessing that file share simply knows the network protocol it has to work with (SMB) and the directory structure (which NTFS and FAT share) it is navigating. If this were not true, then a Windows machine would never be able to log into a HFS+ directory shared on an OS X machine

As such, if you are accessing a remote file share on an NTFS drive the Windows machine does all of the NTFS-specific stuff - OS X just tells it what files it wants to work with and sends/receives the data. Windows then takes those commands and does what it is told to do (assuming that the remote user has authorization to do what they are asking). The same thing occurs when doing things the oposite way (just swap Windows and OS X, and change NTFS to HFS+ in this paragraph).

All of the partitions on my current Windows workstation are NTFS, and I regularly transfer files from it's shares to my Macbook Pro without issue All that I have to do is go to the Network icon in a finder window, my workgroup appears in the list, I select the appropriate computer, login and it appears as a mounted volume on my desktop. I'm then free to upload and download files as necessary.

 

[pixelbender]

A lot of hardware does support OSX, though some doesnt. It would be
fair to say that like it or not windows has more hardware and
software support in general. Its not a huge issue though...most
printers etc will work with mac...

Yes. But what good is that if it isn't needed?

What is an issue is when a mac owner wishes to upgrade comoonents.
CPU is a problem, graphics cards are more expensive...not good.

CPU is not a problem. In fact I plan to upgrade my Mac Mini from a Core Duo to a Core 2 Duo later this month.

As for GPUs, you just pull it out and install it just as if it were any other computer. Apple's higher end computers that support non-integrated GPUs generally come with great video cards that don't need swapping anyways (or you can buy them from the getgo with better cards).

In fact, until the recent Mac Minis and Macbooks, all of Apple's integrated graphics were ACTUAL video cards from ATI and nVidia, something that the PC side could not say.

I can whip my processor out in minutes and plonk something else in
there..not so with a mac....

FUD. FALSE. NO TRUE. See above remark.

The upgrade factor is a key issue as to why a pc is a better long
term investment, one could easily build a low cost system using a
budget cpu and upgrade it later on, pick your own graphics card,
memory, brand of hard disk. Its a clear winner for the DIY
builder...

But with a Mac you don't have to upgrade in order to get the same longevity like you do for the PC. WIth every new version of OS X that has come out, it has been FASTER on the same hardware. Windows has been slower, and thus the NEED to upgrade.

Budget CPU - buy the Mac Mini core solo and put a Core 2 Duo into it for less than $200

Graphics card - again, on the Powermacs it is just as easy as any PC, its exactly the same
Memory - again, exactly the same as a PC

Brand of Hard Disk - again again, exactly the same as a PC, you can put in and HDD you want!

By the time you build a cheap computer (and PAY for a legit copy of Windows that runs $100-200), and upgrade over a period of 5 years, you probably will have passed the intial cost of the Mac. Plus, you don't have the same resale value, and you've been having an inferior user experience the whole time. Not to mention if anything goes wrong you have to support it yourself.

Apple wont ever take the mass market until they wake up to the fact
they should be a software company..not a hardware one. I know this
isnt popular with mac owners...but this is the way forward...

I pray that Apple will never take over the mass market. Then, they might start getting sloppy like Microsoft.

And your software/hardware company stuff is absurd. The reason a Mac is so wonderful is because Apple controls both the hardware and the software. Microsoft products would be a lot better if they did this too.

OSX would do very well up against windows...

It has and continues to do so on a regular basis.

--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[pixelbender]

"Adobe today said it would not deliver native Intel versions of
currently shipping professional products"

What that means is full performance from Photoshop on an Intel Mac
will have to wait until CS3 or whatever they call it. Till then
you are running photoshop thru the converter which robs performance.

Not a reason to buy one flavor or the other just be aware of the
facts.
--
When I was a kid we used pin hole cameras when not borrowing the
old mans Rolleiflex.

Good information.

I've found on all the Macs I've run CS2 on, that it is very usable. It depends on HOW much you use it as to whether or not it would be a problem.
--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[pixelbender]

Anyone who has used both Windows and OS X extensively for any
amount of time will tell you they prefer OS X.

--
Philip

That isn't a lie. Ok, so I didn't know the grammer **** would be on my case. It is a well-supported generalization, as proved by many other posts in this thread.
--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[pixelbender]

BUT, the Magazine division of that same publisher is all mac based
(self described "mac chick" staff) but did not specify that in
submission requirements. So, against a tight deadline I uploaded a
couple gigs of images only to get panic stricken editioral
assistant calling me the next day saying they were unreadable and
that all the files she tried from me would not open. It took me the
better part of the day to realize they were not very tech savy in
that part of the biz and that I needed to be sending "mac format"
TIF files. Jpg's were no problem, but TIF files were. Once I
resaved all my images in mac tif format, she was able to use them.

That's very odd, since both Photoshop and other programs should be
able to read both Mac and PC oriented TIFF files - it just affects
the order of bytes in the image. I have moved TIFF files back and
forth between PC and Mac systems for some time... like you say,
they were not technical but I am really curious what problem they
ran into.

--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_home

Agreed, it should not have been an issue. Simply because TIFF files are "optimized" for one platform or another, they both simply work across both platforms.
--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[pixelbender]

I think there is no doubt you can do what you want on either platform.
I have been using only PCs. I carry two laptops on each job - a
small Sharp laptop with a 12 inch screen and an even smaller Acer
Convertible Tablet PC with a 10 inch screen as a backup.

After about three years of using the Sharp almost every day, I
can't remember a single system crash except for one due to a bug in
a specific program. Never had the blue screen. (I don't use the
Acer as much.)

So here is what interests me - small lightweight laptops because I
shoot tethered and move around a lot. So I can hold the laptop in
one hand and the tripod/camera in the other as I move to different
rooms in a house. The 12inch powerbook looks ok but is still a lot
bigger than some of the choices in the PC world. (Not only the
ones you'll find at CompUSA) but the ones by Fujitsu, Motion, and
many others.) The Panasonic Toughbooks are pretty special too.

There are no Mac tablet machines which is a shame. The tablet pcs
are great for tethered shooting and let you retouch via pen
directly on the screen just as you would with a Waccom pad. The
Motion, Fujitsu and some other machines are available with a
display that can be viewed in full sunlight.

Here is one of the top makers of tablets:
http://motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_le.asp

There are other really amazing small pcs. When it comes to
laptops, notebooks, and subnotebooks, there are many more choices
in the pc world. Besides tablet pcs, there are also convertible
pcs that can be changed from tablet to notebook function.

--
Alan Goldstein

http://www.goldsteinphoto.com

Agreed. In fact I own a Sony U101 (do a google, its the size of two DVD cases) and it is great for tethered as you mentioned. It is a shame that Apple hasn't released a subnotebook yet (and I doubt they will).

If you're only looking for tethered shooting (mobile), you'll definately want to go with a subnotebook (which all run Windows). However, they are going to be expensive.

In the end you can do whatever you want on both machines. I've used both types for years. But in the end, I'd rather do my tasks in OS X than Windows.
--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

 

[Dave Wyman]

I dare someone to find me a any of those hardware items that don't work in OSX.

Ok, the Dazzle card readers (CF cards) found at Radio Shack don't seem to work with OSX. I've had this problem with my iBooks, and I've seen it with PowerBooks.

That said, I've been a confirmed Mac user for two decades; my current model is a MacBook laptop. Photoshop could run faster - it's as fast as it was on my old G4 iBook - while some programs, like GraphicConverter, run at light speed, and Keynote (for my purposes) blows the socks off PowerPoint for presentations of my photographs.

 

[Earendil_Star]

Check out the PC users forum here at depreview, and than look at the Mac forum here.

In general you'll find a distint difference in the kinds of posts in the two forums. One side is having problems with all kinds of cryptic things, the other is asking how to use brand new cool software (or bugs in beta software).

Which forum do you want to be on?

 

[Earendil_Star]

I dare someone to find me a any of those hardware items that don't work in OSX.

Ok, the Dazzle card readers (CF cards) found at Radio Shack don't
seem to work with OSX. I've had this problem with my iBooks, and
I've seen it with PowerBooks.

I'm going to take that dare, but I need the proper spelling of the company. If that is the proper spelling than radio shack no longer carries them, nor does BestBuy.

And since the Apple forums also have no record of that company, I'm really doubtful that is correct AND that the card reader doens't work (else it's sure ot have popped up).

Cheers,
Tyler