Bad Noise in Low Light ... is this normal

be aware we're still trying to ascertain whether it's just my camera or the SD10 in general.

Watch this space
It makes my decision much easier. It's 300D for me.
--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!
 
When you do a long exposure, the SD10 does another exposure afterwards without opening the shutter. This yields a "dark frame", an image containing noise only. This is then subtracted from the noisy long exposure image, cancelling any repetitive noise.

Helge Hafting
How does the Camera do Darkframe subtraction ?
Sounds interesting (keeping in mind I'm an engineer who loves the
tecco stuff).

Cheers....

Shoei
I just did this with my SD10 at 15 sec and despite two pixels (one
green and one blue) the Image came out black.

My guess is that the Darkframe substraction in your Camera is not
properly working and messing the images up.
 
I think this is doing more harm than good by no. Some things just need clarification.
Shoei wrote:
Many of them are the match of any Sigma EX lens, some are even the
equal of Canons best "L-glass",
And many of them are cr@p.
Luckily every M42 lens I have bought has turned out to be a good
lens, usually with virtually no CA and very sharp, with my 400mm
f5.6 being perhaps the softest, though still sharp.
So lets have a look in your Gallery.
Tokina 24mm shows CA
The Vivitar 400mm shows a lot of CA
Mirage Auto reflex 135mm shows CA

And the images have a quite "soft but sharpened" look, supported by the fact that most (or all?) of them are +2 sharpness in SPP.

to be continued in reply to the other posting...
--
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross_sd10

 
"Properly" is a very subjective term...
Properly meaning not as unfirm/wobbly as most KtoM42 adapters are. It will actualyl quite difficult to find one that is really a good fit.
that there will be no usable accurate metering (Guess via LCD), that you > have to manually stop down the aperture before taking a pic,
No, you simply use "stop down metering".
Its very simple and quick to set the lens aperture then set the
camera to the same aperture so that it records the true aperture in
the EXIF data
Did you ever try that, did it work or not?
or set the camera to f5.6 as a compromise for
metering and just simply adjust the lens aperture.
And this is why you shoot it in manual mode with greatly varying exposure bias? If it would be so easy I would set the Camera to Aperture priority and f5.6 and just shoot. But despite your manual tries some images still needed heavy exposure compensation in SPP.
You cant have tried it then Adam, because IMO its certainly no
slower than using an AF lens, once you are used to it.
I think he has and therefore he has this valid point. MF Cameras were designed for doing this with the SD9/10 you don't have a splitscreen, you have a smaller finder this makes MF not as easy as it was with the old Cameras.

Seeing how much sharpening you added to your pictures it seems that getting the focus right is not as easy or the lenses are soft.

Sure one could add a magnifier but a good magnifier ist not cheap and this whole setup does not make it more convinient. And a fast AF Lens will still be faster than MF 90% of the time.

One thing to notice is that the dustspots in the London eye picture are very sharp, sharper than one would expect it at lets say f/5.6-f/8 so the lens was stopped down quite a bit but the image is still quite soft and full of CA.
I dont think he will be frustrated,...You should give the man more
credit Adam...He is obviously very intelligent...After all, He
bought a Sigma!
Adam was probably right here as well, after reading such optimistic postings people tend to forget about the downsides.

--
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross_sd10

 
"Properly" is a very subjective term...You dont HAVE to buy "an
expensive adapter from Japan" if you use a Pentax K to M42 adapter
which is very widely available and is far from being
expensive...
But they are wobbly, you have to remove the pin from the back of the lens which may not be tricky for you or me but maybe for others and most of the time you have to unscrew the lens before taking the adapter out - a lot of faffing around
Buy a Pentax K mounts lens, do the neccessary, simple mod' and it
fits with no adapter at all!
Pentax K isn't M42 though is it? and the subject was M42. I have a PK 1.7 50 SMC and it works just like a 50mm MF SA would if such a thing existed but if Sigma ever made an old F1.7/1.8 AF lens at all let alone as sharp, I'd have one of those first full stop.
You cant have tried it then Adam, because IMO its certainly no
slower than using an AF lens,
LOL - that's one hell of a statement to make! - Firstly, you KNOW I've tried it as I've posted crops from three M42 lenses, secondly without a split screen and Auto Aperture (facilities enjoyed by even 30yr old SLRs like the Spotmatic) , I bet most people here couldn't set the aperture, focus, stop down, set the aperture on the camera and shoot reliably as fast as even a slow AF lens let alone one with HSM..
For those on a us on a very low budget, like me and perhaps, I
suspect, the majority of Sigma owners, M42 lenses offer the ONLY
affordable way to get decent lens quality,
I would hazard a guess that most on a LOW budget would be shooting a used Zenit, Praktica or other MF camera and even if they had Digital, I very much doubt that they could afford an SD10 - an SD9 at a push maybe and then go looking for "£50 specials" in old SA mount glass like the excellent 24mm F2.8 and other SA mount primes and zooms which dealers throw out at lowball prices - Check Jessops sometime, I and others on this forum picked up MINT as new Sigma 300F4s with HSM for £110 - 12 month warranty, one even E-Bayed their hi-Quality M42 after getting one of these razor sharp fast focussing Gems!..

Surely someone who can sink a GRAND on an SD10 can afford £110 for one of the sharpest Telezooms out there (as sharp as the Canon L IS version) and another £50 for the superb 24mm F2.8..
IMO, manual focus M42 lens are also very practical and without
power draining AF, your batteries also last longer
at £8 a set who cares?, we're not talking £100 1D batteries here!

Not just trying to be argumentative here Alf, just putting things into perspective, especially as there are a lot of old SA lenses which give superb results and gathering dust on dealers shelves waiting for an SD owner to make a lowball offer even here in the UK.. I just missed a MINT 28-70 F2.8, the earlier NON-EX metal bodied one in SA which is every bit as sharp as the EX versions for £75 with a 12 month warranty, an SA7 owner bought it :( . as for those 300mm F4s, Even well used versions of the Canon and Nikon versions go for around £375 WITHOUT HSM! - this is ONE BIG advantage to having an SDx, moreso than the ability to fill the house with geriatric glass..

Just my View of coruse Alf..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D & Sigma SD9 - Sharper than a Saville Row Suit!
 
Cool,

Any idea when this kicks in (i.e the exposure threshold ?)

Cheers....

Shoei
Helge Hafting
How does the Camera do Darkframe subtraction ?
Sounds interesting (keeping in mind I'm an engineer who loves the
tecco stuff).

Cheers....

Shoei
I just did this with my SD10 at 15 sec and despite two pixels (one
green and one blue) the Image came out black.

My guess is that the Darkframe substraction in your Camera is not
properly working and messing the images up.
--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!
 
I'm in Australia,

It cost me a hair under the cost of a D70 kit (which, I'm now
really wishing I'd bought instead of the SD10, occasional Moire I
can live with more easily than extreme noise in every low light
shot). The shots posted here are amazing, and my hat is off to
everyone that posts these inspiring images to the group .... if
only I could afford all of that EX glass.

I don't mean to be critical, because the forum group have been very
helpful to date, but I guess I'd interpreted responses to my "low
light" questions prior to buying the camera as the problem was not
as bad as the reviews etc, made out ...... now, four days after
I've bought the SD10, it seems quite the opposite is true (Sorry
Phil, All is forgiven).

It took me seven months to scrape the $$$'s together for my new
DSLR and now, 4 days later I'm not very happy.

Admittedly things may seem better in the morning (2:30am here
currently) and there's always "daylight" shots in which the Sigma
excels, but ... I'd hoped for more :-( Time to sleep on it.

Cheers....

Shoei
To Shoei

I've shot with the D70 and on May 7th I'll get to use it again and other Nikon products. As it stands right now I wouldn't give up my SD9 or 10. The D70 is a nice camera with a lot of nice features, but it has problems with noise in the dark areas. I do agree that Sigma and Foveon have to fix the low light noise problem, I like to shoot early AM and when you doing weddings you have to watch your exposure if you have the bride in a white dress and the groom in a black tux in the late evening, but it can be done. when you get it right the images will blow the rest out of the water. I do not like to post process so I have some more testing to do. If you use a Nikon camera you'll have to pay more money to get their better software, it doesn't come with the camera and I think but not sure, up grades cost also. You could exchange your camera. If you got a bad one have the dealer get another and exchange yours.
Good luck and have fun
Roger J.
bit of a case of "buyers remorse" about now.
This is one reason why I wouldn't pay the UK price for an SD10, the
SD9 is a total bargain at £550 but there was no way that I'd pay
Fuji S2 / 10D money asked for the SD10 until the body fittings,
buttons etc were of FAR better quality, they totally revamped the
insensitive 1-point AF, it ran off a 10D / D100 style Li-Ion
battery and they sorted the issues with the blue sky noise, long
exposures, high ISOs and other things which Bayer DSLRs do far
better..

Don't get me wrong, I love my Sigma, but it's an SD9 which with the
two kit lenses cost less than a 300D body or one of the 8Mp
noisemeister happycams cost at the time, not one which cost as much
for the body alone as an S2, D100, 10D or *ist, all of which (yes,
even the horrible Fuji) are far more polished products that do what
it says on the tin without battery dances, messing around with
selective colour or making sure that you don't expose for more than
a few secs.. Maybe they're selling SD10s for lowball prices in the
USA but in the UK, it's around 1700 US Bucks.

I'll recommend the SD9 til I'm blue in the face or Sigma run out of
them, whichever comes first , the foibles are acceptable at the
price and even "Quirky" and the results are top notch - a true
value camera but the SD10 should really be selling at 300D prices
NOT 10D level...

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D & Sigma SD9 - Sharper than a Saville Row Suit!
--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!
 
It took me seven months to scrape the $$$'s together for my new
DSLR and now, 4 days later I'm not very happy.
All I can say is, stick with it.
You've only had the camera for a week so far, and you've been disappointed.

But one day you'll get a shot that will make you gasp at it's quality. That's what you won't get with the cheaper Bayer cameras.

And don't think that noisy skies are only produced by the Sigmas. Here's a good example from the Minolta forum:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=8679037

--
Thanks,
Gary.
 
But one day you'll get a shot that will make you gasp at it's
quality.
with me, this was one of the first few pics as I used the 24mm F2.8 prime before the DC Kit lenses - I was knocked out - and as from the very start, I've developed from SPP in double size, post processed and resized to 4.15 megapixels to fit my 1D workload , most of the time, the only way I can tell the difference is that the SD9 is more Velvia, the 1D more Provia in colour balance.. The 1D is a Bayer which thinks it's a Foveon (same pixel level sharpness and colour quality) so long as it's shot in RAW..

The SD9 has been making an excellent secondary camera to the 1D - after seeing the output from those two, it's hard to look at 6Mp bayer images again in the same light

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D & Sigma SD9 - Sharper than a Savile Row Suit!
 
.... this picture from the Minolta forum is IMO a very good example not to care to much about noise!! I like the picture very much.

Uwe
It took me seven months to scrape the $$$'s together for my new
DSLR and now, 4 days later I'm not very happy.
All I can say is, stick with it.
You've only had the camera for a week so far, and you've been
disappointed.
But one day you'll get a shot that will make you gasp at it's
quality. That's what you won't get with the cheaper Bayer cameras.

And don't think that noisy skies are only produced by the Sigmas.
Here's a good example from the Minolta forum:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=8679037

--
Thanks,
Gary.
 
I'll be sticking with it ..... thanks again :-)
Uwe
It took me seven months to scrape the $$$'s together for my new
DSLR and now, 4 days later I'm not very happy.
All I can say is, stick with it.
You've only had the camera for a week so far, and you've been
disappointed.
But one day you'll get a shot that will make you gasp at it's
quality. That's what you won't get with the cheaper Bayer cameras.

And don't think that noisy skies are only produced by the Sigmas.
Here's a good example from the Minolta forum:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=8679037

--
Thanks,
Gary.
--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!
 
Cool,

Any idea when this kicks in (i.e the exposure threshold ?)
No, but I believe someone posted info about it earlier, so a search might turn up something.

Someone noticed things like the camera being unable to take another pictures for 10 seconds after a 10-second exposure, and figured out that the camera did a 10-second dark frame immediately afterwards.

You could simply try successively shorter exposures to see when this stops. Of course it is impossible to notice if it goes all the way up to 1/2-second exposures, the camera doesn't do more than 2fps anyway.

Helge Hafting
 
Is this normal ?
Is anyone else seeing this
Is it something I'm doing wrong ?
have I picked up a lemon ?
No, it's not "normal," but it's not all that unusual, either. Mastering any digital SLR, much less the SD-10, takes time. How you shoot and when you shoot will change as you begin to understand the differences between digital and emulsion and between the Foveon and other sensors.

Yes, it's possible you've gotten a defective camera, but I doubt it.

— SteveG
 
Sorry to say this, but sending the camera back won't solve anything. I purchased a non-Sigma SLR a bit over a week ago, after spending quite some time weighing up my options.

I gave the SD10 serious consideration.

The Foveon principle is an elegant one, and I firmly believe that, with the passage of time, it will replace the CFA method of acquiring colour information. BUT..... it's not there quite yet. It's an immature technology, and will take some years yet to "get it right" regarding noise.

The noisiness is quite understandable, and expected, if you look at the spectral response of the Foveon chip itself. Contrary to most people's beliefs, there IS interpolation carried out on the data from the Foveon sensor. You don't get three nice, clean, colour channels put into nice, separate boxes, ready to mix together and produce colour photographs with. The output response is quite mushy, actually, and you need to apply some fairly severe correction curves in order to get the desired spectral response curve for each colour channel. This is not to imply that Sigma/Foveon don't know what they're doing: they do. It's simply the nature of the physics involved.

The sensor has each pixel being 3 photodetectors deep. The layer closest to the surface (front) is for blue, the middle one green, and the red is at the rear. Blue has the shortest wavelength, so penetrates the least. Red has the longest wavelength, so penetrates the deepest.

Let's simplify and assume that the incoming light is made up of discrete RGB channels. If you look at what's happening at the pixel itself, all three channels hit the blue photodetector, so it contains the values for the whole lot. As the light goes in further, the "blue channel" energy drops off with distance, so if you position the next photodetector far enough away, all that the green photodetector will see is the R+G channels hitting it. Repeat this for getting to the red photodetector, and only the red channel information should be there.

Of course light is not made out of discrete channels, and the total filtering out of a colour 'channel' doesn't occur by the time you get to a particular photodetector, but the purpose of explaining it this way is to point out that the response that you get out of the chip is a series of overlapping curves, and each curve has a diffent shape. Now, if you know the response of each photodetector, you can calculate what the value for each colour channel should be at each photodetector (interpolation!), and then build a picture.

This is NOT in any way the same interpolation method used for CFA (Bayer) sensors, but seeing as how you have to shape the curves by increasing or decreasing the amplitude at any particular point on the curve, it's too easy to add noise: if the curve needs to be corrected because at point (x,y) its amplitude is too low, then re-plotting it at that point (pump up the gain) is the same as cranking up the ISO setting (turn up the op-amps in the camera's front end): noise. Complicating the issue is that the colour channels aren't totally separated, and some cross-talk is inevitable.

So, going back to the image quality for low-light shooting, yes, I'd be surprised if the images had less noise than a Bayer sensor camera. It's also not surprising that the colour saturation drops off with increasing ISO speed, as reported in the SD10 review on this site.

(continued Part 2)
 
What you're looking at is the physics of the image sensor itself. This is not to say it's a flawed method; I look forward to the day when all Bayer sensor cameras are in museums, but for the time being, it's not good enough for what I do, which is a LOT of night photography, with minimum exposure times of 20 sec, and now with my new SLR, several minutes.

It's a bit like cathode ray tube (CRT) vs LCD monitor technology. CRTs are a VERY clunky technology by today's technological standards, with very impractical and inelegant design flaws (for example, shooting tiny beams of electrons through a metal plate with tiny holes in it. One slip in your mechanical tolerances and you're totally stuffed). And yet, CRTs are everywhere, have been used for decades, and produce superb picture quality. In spite of the crazy idea of shooting electrons through an overgrown sieve (a very inspired way to do things though, especially given the level of technology in the early 20th century), they are the prime choice of display when it comes to picture quality... for now. Proof that if it produces results, no matter how clunky it is under the hood, it'll gain popular acceptance. Enough time and money has been poured into the CRT to make it a mature technology.

Give competing technologies (such as plasma & organic LED, for example) enough time, and they too will become a mature technology, and CRTs will head for the museums.

The Bayer sensor is very much like the CRT in this regard. Make a up sandwich using dye-based inks, shove it in front of a sensor that records monochrome only, and then go and fiddle the numbers and see what we can come up with (hmmm sounds like a bunch of corporate accountants). BUT.... it's a reasonably mature technology. Sure, there are still gains to be made in terms of resolution, sensitivity, and nose, for example, but the salient point is that it produces damn good photos. And more importantly, produces them NOW.

So, regarding the Foveon: when it matures, it will be a killer imaging technology for hand-held cameras. But until the SD15 or SD20 comes out, I'm sticking with Bayer sensors. Not because I want to.

SOMEBODY has to be an early-adapter of emerging technologies, otherwise those technologies stagnate and die. Remember the first mobile phones? The bricks? Would you have one now? Not in your right mind. At the time, however, they were great, and people took them up anyway. Today's Foveon is the brick. It has great promise, and I look very much forward to my first Foveon-style SLR. Does this help you today with your SD10? No.

Hopefully, something can be done in terms of noise reduction in a future release of Sigma's RAW converter software. From the physics point of view, you should have done what I did, and gone for a different camera.

PS: This is NOT an anti-Foveon post in any way whatsoever, merely an observation from a semiconductor physics point of view.
 
Finally, remember it is about photography - drawing light. The SD10
does not take well to overexposure (nor do any other cameras
really). Get the right exposure and reduce it by 1/3 stop, and you
will get the best results IMNSHO.
Words to live by.
--
Laurence

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com (eternal test site)
--
Chunsum
http://www.pbase.com/chunsum
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9
 
Properly meaning not as unfirm/wobbly as most KtoM42 adapters are.
It will actualyl quite difficult to find one that is really a good
fit.
That is what I just said, did'nt I?...I did not say they were a perfect fit, but they DO fit and for Shoei thats all he need to get up and running with M42 lenses.
And this is why you shoot it in manual mode with greatly varying
exposure bias?
No, I dont go by exposure bias at all....I check my histogram on every shot and alter the aperture or shutter speed to compensate if its a little underexposed.
If it would be so easy I would set the Camera to Aperture priority and
f5.6 and just shoot. But despite your manual tries some images still
needed heavy exposure compensation in SPP.
So what?...I leave SPP2 set to auto and trust its image processing decisions....Just because I dont spend hours in PS, post processing every shot to get it perfect, thats my decision and I'm sticking with it!
You cant have tried it then Adam, because IMO its certainly no
slower than using an AF lens, once you are used to it.
I think he has and therefore he has this valid point. MF Cameras
were designed for doing this with the SD9/10 you don't have a
splitscreen, you have a smaller finder this makes MF not as easy as
it was with the old Cameras.
I have not used "old cameras", with or without split screen, only prosumers with LCD screens so I cannot see that my Sigma has any problems with focusing using its "smaller finder".
To me its just right for MF lenses, but maybe my eyesite is just very good?
Seeing how much sharpening you added to your pictures it seems that
getting the focus right is not as easy or the lenses are soft.
No, not at all....I ALWAYS use maximum sharpening in SSP2 for EVERY picture I take, and that goes for pics taken with my AF kit lenses too, because I like pin sharp images with maximum detail.
...Which is why I bought the SD10, in the first place!

Some Sigma owners moan about "jaggies" in their images when they use lots of sharpening but in mine they are not visible on my CRT 17" monitor which is set to a screen res of 1024x768 so I sharpen as much I like.
Sure one could add a magnifier but a good magnifier ist not cheap
and this whole setup does not make it more convinient.
A magnifier can be cheap, it depends which one you get and where you buy it from.
My 2-3x straight-through unbranded magifier cost only 15 pounds!
And a fast
AF Lens will still be faster than MF 90% of the time.
Faster in what way?...In focusing?...I can MF focus very quickly, but then maybe I am just some kind of superhero?...Manual Focus Man..perhaps?
One thing to notice is that the dustspots in the London eye picture
are very sharp, sharper than one would expect it at lets say
f/5.6-f/8 so the lens was stopped down quite a bit but the image is
still quite soft and full of CA.
Er...I think you will find that the dustspots you are referring to are on the sensor, not the lens, so stopping down the lens has nothing to do with it. I get them in every shot, and they are gradually multiplying.
I dont think he will be frustrated,...You should give the man more
credit Adam...He is obviously very intelligent...After all, He
bought a Sigma!
Adam was probably right here as well, after reading such optimistic
postings people tend to forget about the downsides.
I think you are exagerating Dominic. There are downsides with EVERY camera, but IMO with the SD's they are very few or not worth worrying about.

All that matters at the end of the day is the image quality, and how you define that may be a personal thing but maximum sharpness and detail is what I am trying to capture, and I IMO am getting a massive head start by using the SD10 rather than a Bayer sensored DSLR.
 
Buy a Pentax K mounts lens, do the neccessary, simple mod' and it
fits with no adapter at all!
Pentax K isn't M42 though is it? and the subject was M42.
Oh,...So sorry! (not!)...I was simply informing him of other options aside of using M42 lens.
I have a PK 1.7 50 SMC and it works just like a 50mm MF SA would if
such a thing existed but if Sigma ever made an old F1.7/1.8 AF lens at all
let alone as sharp, I'd have one of those first full stop.
Yes, only the PK would be about 10 times cheaper so where is the attraction to buying an expensive Sigma version?

Maybe you just can't live without AF, and thats fair enough but I dont have the huge budget you seem to have so I am fully prepared to go without and use MF lenses.
For those on a us on a very low budget, like me and perhaps, I
suspect, the majority of Sigma owners, M42 lenses offer the ONLY
affordable way to get decent lens quality,
I would hazard a guess that most on a LOW budget would be shooting
a used Zenit, Praktica or other MF camera and even if they had
Digital, I very much doubt that they could afford an SD10 - an SD9
at a push maybe
Wrong,...they can,....and I did!

I did not have to shell out a grand in one go as others can afford to do, I bought my SD10 "2 lens kit" and 1gb CF card on 9 months interest-free-credit from: http://www.warehouseexpress.com

I am still putting aside 35 pounds per month and will have it payed off in October.
Check Jessops
sometime, I and others on this forum picked up MINT as new Sigma
300F4s with HSM for £110 - 12 month warranty, one even E-Bayed
their hi-Quality M42 after getting one of these razor sharp fast
focussing Gems!..
But thats not cheap!...My 300mm f5.5 M42 lens, which may arguably be just as sharp, cost less than 12 pounds!, and was including the postage!!!
Surely someone who can sink a GRAND on an SD10 can afford £110 for
one of the sharpest Telezooms out there (as sharp as the Canon L IS
version) and another £50 for the superb 24mm F2.8..
No I can't, and thats the point!
IMO, manual focus M42 lens are also very practical and without
power draining AF, your batteries also last longer
at £8 a set who cares?, we're not talking £100 1D batteries here!
"£8 a set" for AA NiMH's perhaps, but these don't work with the SD10 so I have had to buy 2 rechargable Li-ion batteries which cost me about £38.
Not just trying to be argumentative here Alf, just putting things
into perspective, especially as there are a lot of old SA lenses
which give superb results and gathering dust on dealers shelves
waiting for an SD owner to make a lowball offer even here in the
UK..
I just missed a MINT 28-70 F2.8, the earlier NON-EX metal
bodied one in SA which is every bit as sharp as the EX versions
Thats not I have have heard from threads on this forum, where the non-EX version is described as cr@p.
Maybe you were lucky it got away?
Even well used versions of the Canon and Nikon
versions go for around £375 WITHOUT HSM! - this is ONE BIG
advantage to having an SDx,
Very true, but they are still not cheap enough for me.
moreso than the ability to fill the house with geriatric glass..
Thanks,...So now I am just an antique lens collector!
Just my View of coruse Alf..
And you are welcome to it.
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
Can't say I noticed...(not!)
EOS-1D & Sigma SD9 - Sharper than a Saville Row Suit!
Cant argue with that!
 
I think this is doing more harm than good by no. Some things just
need clarification.
Well, by all means lets clarify the situation.
Shoei wrote:
Many of them are the match of any Sigma EX lens, some are even the
equal of Canons best "L-glass",
And many of them are cr@p.
Yes, thats right, but if you read it properly you will see that I inferred that, by not stating that they were all good, only that many were.
Luckily every M42 lens I have bought has turned out to be a good
lens, usually with virtually no CA and very sharp, with my 400mm
f5.6 being perhaps the softest, though still sharp.
So lets have a look in your Gallery.
Tokina 24mm shows CA
Where exactly?....Going blind trying to find any!
The Vivitar 400mm shows a lot of CA
Again, where exactly?....I am struggling to find any in 02656 (Pod on the London Eye.)
Mirage Auto reflex 135mm shows CA
Yes, on the highly reflective steel drum but certainly much less than I would have got using a Sigma zoom and there is no CA visible anywhere else in the picture. The corners may be a bit soft but thats not down to CA.
And the images have a quite "soft but sharpened" look, supported
by the fact that most (or all?) of them are +2 sharpness in SPP.
As I stated in an earlier reply, I use +2 sharpen in SPP2 for ALL my pics, not just those taken with M42 lenses, Sigma kit lenses too and thats just how I like it.
 
I'll be sticking with it ..... thanks again :-)
I've tried to remember to email you earlier in your disappointment with your sd10 images but just haven't had the time (uni assignments). I went through the same thing with my sd9 in the initial stage, disappointed with low light images. Thinking all this money I scraped up and the remainder on the creditcard have gone to waste. I found the + - over/under exposure compensation button (would have returned my camera without it). 70% of the time I shoot @ +0.5 and the other percentage +1.0 and manual guesswork checking the histogram afterwards.

Here's some important tips I feel you could do with knowing

from my personal experience with the SD9, it has very average light metering, which unfortunately means it will get the exposure wrong more often then say your D70, and usually underexposing. Added to the fact if your in low light and the camera gets it wrong, your really in trouble. Don't ever think SPP's auto setting is correct, ESPECIALLY in low light or night images I never use fill light, as all it does is boost the back sky and other dark areas into awful noise!

fill light is awesome with images very well lit, in open daylight and bright shady areas, and in these scenes brings out the area's which if exposed for correctly (would be classed as low light), out better machine the rest of the scene.

however if you take a picture in low light and try to use fill light to boost even lower light/black areas in your photo, for example your Brisbane shot. it will look shockingly bad.

if an image taken in anything other than low light needs more than +0.7 of exposure, you'll need to retake it as you will get shocking results.

fill light is a very, very powerful tool. And it's a shame fill light is always activated in SPP, in future versions there should be an option to turn off fill and do an auto calculation, as it is a sure-fire way to ruin any image taken in lowlight or darkness.

so to sum it up I would set the camera to at least +0.3 or +0.6 exp compensation and see what eventuates, check what SPP auto boosts and in all low light or darkness shots turn off fill light, and if the software has to boost exposure any drastic amount don't waste your time on the image. I now always use spot metering, directing the camera to the part of the scene I want exposed correctly, then recompose the shot and take the image, I recommend you try it,

if you have any questions please ask,

I see your getting a D-Shell adapter also, good luck with it I ordered min last Saturday but the golden week holidays are on in Japan so I won't see mine until late next week. have got a screwmount bellows and 50mm pentax f/1.4 awaiting it's arrival,

Thanks In Advance!

Alex Ball

--

Homer...this is positively the worst thing you've ever done! Ohhhhh Marge, you say that so often that it has lost all meaning.
 

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