Zoom and a flash or a fast prime?

I like using flash in a creative setting (typically in a studio), but generally speaking I don't like using flash out in the "real world", for a number of reasons:

1. I'm primarily a "people photographer", and I find flash is disruptive in most situations.
2. I have a bias towards capturing the world (mostly) as I see it
3. It's a lot of additional gear that I just don't want to mess with - especially if you're doing flash "well" which for me means fill flash, which means matching (or complimenting) ambient color temperatures, having something easy to bounce, etc. It's easy to add a lot of light to a scene with a flash, it's harder to add "good" light.

So, I'd prefer a fast prime most of the time. That said, there's really no replacement for a flash in some situations and I'm glad I've had the opportunity (and equipment) to develop that side of being a photographer.

TJ Olympus said:

Smaug01 said:

If I know I'll have a low, white ceiling and I'm not concerned with impacting the mood of the place, I use the bounce flash & zoom lens. No bounce = no deal, as direct flash in low light looks horrible. In that case, I either let the ISO go to the moon or swap on my fast prime or both.

Click to expand...

Agree about the look of direct flash in low light, terrible, a big no-no, unless the flash is way higher, like on a stand off to the side and even then it's not great.

I use strap on white bounce cards on my flashes when there's no ceiling to bounce off during low light events....which is like, 90% of the time! These cards have a bigger area than the flashes' built-in little pull up white card, allowing for a nice spread when the subjects are 4-6ft away. Can stay at f/4 and around ISO 2000-2500, varying flash power between 1/32 and 1/64. Makes it a heck of a lot easier in post.

Click to expand...

Do you have a picture of this card/flash setup?

Sam Bennett said:

I like using flash in a creative setting (typically in a studio), but generally speaking I don't like using flash out in the "real world", for a number of reasons:

1. I'm primarily a "people photographer", and I find flash is disruptive in most situations.

Click to expand...

It can be but you can get used to it. The initial moment you see will be captured accurately, but subsequent pictures could shot the subjects reaction to the flash.

Sam Bennett said:

1. I have a bias towards capturing the world (mostly) as I see it

Click to expand...

This is impossible. We see far more than the camera can see. I would say capture the world as I imagine and/or as the camera can capture. If that is the metric, then flash can be included in that vision.

Sam Bennett said:

1. It's a lot of additional gear that I just don't want to mess with - especially if you're doing flash "well" which for me means fill flash, which means matching (or complimenting) ambient color temperatures, having something easy to bounce, etc. It's easy to add a lot of light to a scene with a flash, it's harder to add "good" light.

Click to expand...

It is harder to get/add good light with a flash in all scenes, but I am finding that the more I use flash the easier it gets. I also find that some of my earlier flash creations are better seen with the eye that I have today. Because I know for that moment I could not have had a better capture.

Sam Bennett said:

So, I'd prefer a fast prime most of the time. That said, there's really no replacement for a flash in some situations and I'm glad I've had the opportunity (and equipment) to develop that side of being a photographer.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I do like shooting with a prime primarily, but if I don't have that luxury (and I think it is a luxury) the next best thing is to get "something" with a zoom and flash.

jhunna said:

Sam Bennett said:

I like using flash in a creative setting (typically in a studio), but generally speaking I don't like using flash out in the "real world", for a number of reasons:

1. I'm primarily a "people photographer", and I find flash is disruptive in most situations.

Click to expand...

It can be but you can get used to it. The initial moment you see will be captured accurately, but subsequent pictures could shot the subjects reaction to the flash.

Click to expand...

All I can say is that this hasn't been my experience.

Pretty much the only place I'd bring a flash in public is documenting punk rock shows, where it's part of the aesthetic and the culture.

jhunna said:

jhunna said:

1. I have a bias towards capturing the world (mostly) as I see it

Click to expand...

This is impossible. We see far more than the camera can see. I would say capture the world as I imagine and/or as the camera can capture. If that is the metric, then flash can be included in that vision.

Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, but this is splitting hairs IMO. I'm always showing my interpretation of reality, of course, but introducing an element that was not there before (flash) substantively changes the scene. You can do it in subtle ways (really light fill to just get catchlights in people's eyes), but at a certain point you have to ask whether that's worth the extra effort and the disruption it causes with your subjects.

Again, in a studio setting I don't care - it's part of the process and while it might be annoying to my subject, that's just part of the gig from their perspective. In that case I'm usually trying to really "create" a scene that is not "there" in reality, so it's worth the effort.

jhunna said:

jhunna said:

1. It's a lot of additional gear that I just don't want to mess with - especially if you're doing flash "well" which for me means fill flash, which means matching (or complimenting) ambient color temperatures, having something easy to bounce, etc. It's easy to add a lot of light to a scene with a flash, it's harder to add "good" light.

Click to expand...

It is harder to get/add good light with a flash in all scenes, but I am finding that the more I use flash the easier it gets. I also find that some of my earlier flash creations are better seen with the eye that I have today. Because I know for that moment I could not have had a better capture.

Click to expand...

I've done a lot of event photography and studio photography with flash, so I'm pretty dang comfortable with it. But it has never ceased being a pain in the ass. Largely because flash manufacturers have stubbornly not found a way to reproduce a gelling system with Xenon-tube based flashes. Smartphone work around this with LEDs that can adapt to the ambient temp, but as usual "real cameras" are still in the stone age.

jhunna said:

TJ Olympus said:

Smaug01 said:

If I know I'll have a low, white ceiling and I'm not concerned with impacting the mood of the place, I use the bounce flash & zoom lens. No bounce = no deal, as direct flash in low light looks horrible. In that case, I either let the ISO go to the moon or swap on my fast prime or both.

Click to expand...

Agree about the look of direct flash in low light, terrible, a big no-no, unless the flash is way higher, like on a stand off to the side and even then it's not great.

I use strap on white bounce cards on my flashes when there's no ceiling to bounce off during low light events....which is like, 90% of the time! These cards have a bigger area than the flashes' built-in little pull up white card, allowing for a nice spread when the subjects are 4-6ft away. Can stay at f/4 and around ISO 2000-2500, varying flash power between 1/32 and 1/64. Makes it a heck of a lot easier in post.

Click to expand...

Do you have a picture of this card/flash setup?

Click to expand...

Google Lastolite Ezy Bounce.

jhunna said:

TJ Olympus said:

Smaug01 said:

If I know I'll have a low, white ceiling and I'm not concerned with impacting the mood of the place, I use the bounce flash & zoom lens. No bounce = no deal, as direct flash in low light looks horrible. In that case, I either let the ISO go to the moon or swap on my fast prime or both.

Click to expand...

Agree about the look of direct flash in low light, terrible, a big no-no, unless the flash is way higher, like on a stand off to the side and even then it's not great.

I use strap on white bounce cards on my flashes when there's no ceiling to bounce off during low light events....which is like, 90% of the time! These cards have a bigger area than the flashes' built-in little pull up white card, allowing for a nice spread when the subjects are 4-6ft away. Can stay at f/4 and around ISO 2000-2500, varying flash power between 1/32 and 1/64. Makes it a heck of a lot easier in post.

Click to expand...

Do you have a picture of this card/flash setup?

Click to expand...

There are many -- search 'flash bounce card' on Amazon, ebay, or your favorite photo dealer.

Klaus dk said:

Studio flash, hand-held flash, reflector panel or available ligth combined with fast zoom(s) and/or a fast prime as the situation dictates.

Crutches, wheelchair, bare feet ... the only thing I try to avoid is not getting the shot.

Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I do what I need to do to get the shots. The only big NO NO is to not get the shot!!!

If one is experienced with every type of light and every scenario the shots will look good!!!

John

TJ Olympus said:

Smaug01 said:

If I know I'll have a low, white ceiling and I'm not concerned with impacting the mood of the place, I use the bounce flash & zoom lens. No bounce = no deal, as direct flash in low light looks horrible. In that case, I either let the ISO go to the moon or swap on my fast prime or both.

Click to expand...

Agree about the look of direct flash in low light, terrible, a big no-no, unless the flash is way higher, like on a stand off to the side and even then it's not great.

I use strap on white bounce cards on my flashes when there's no ceiling to bounce off during low light events....which is like, 90% of the time! These cards have a bigger area than the flashes' built-in little pull up white card, allowing for a nice spread when the subjects are 4-6ft away. Can stay at f/4 and around ISO 2000-2500, varying flash power between 1/32 and 1/64. Makes it a heck of a lot easier in post.

Click to expand...

Big " no, no"?

The only big no no is not getting the shot! We do what we need to do!!!

John

JohnSil said:

Big " no, no"?

The only big no no is not getting the shot! We do what we need to do!!!

John

Click to expand...

Yes, you’re right, I agree. Flash is essential in lowlight and I’m in constant touch with the darn thing all nights during cocktail hr and receptions. Just meant that as a practice, direct flash in low light on paid event shoots is really not the way…..well, it’s not my way, I don’t like the way they look.. And before I get hammered and flamed in this forum, I’m totally certain there are pros using direct flash to great effect and creating really great images and I admire that, but for me, it’s not my way. Which is why I mentioned the bounce cards and I always put them on in dark rooms with high ceilings, as awkward as they can be sometimes.

That being said, yes, there were/will be times where something is happening spontaneously and you throw the Hail Mary and point the flash direct. If you can stop down the aperture quickly enough, you get some keepers. But in my experience, and that of my colleagues, and not to take lightly, the truth is that you won’t get every shot, especially candids. That’s why there’s often two photographers and a videographer, and you just keep chimping, adjusting and shoot, shoot, shoot!