Epson P5370 Issue - Question for P5370 Users

As some forum members know, a couple of months ago I decided to switch from a Canon Pro 1100 to an Epson P5370 due to banding issues that I had been experiencing with the three Pro 1100’s that I used.

I will write a post with my comparative thoughts about the two printers as soon as I have the time because there are certain similarities and a few differences that I have found interesting.

This post is about something else, however - more precisely my apparent inability to get a printer that works properly in all respects regardless of its brand.

Let’s start from the positives: I am getting no more banding. Problem solved, yay.

On the other hand, prints made on the P5370 on cut sheet non-matte paper, particularly prints that include large areas of black or very dark colors, show visible roller (“pizza wheel”) marks that make the prints for all practical purposes unusable.

This is in contrast to the three Pro 1100’s which I used that never exhibited any roller mark issue.

B&H has been fantastic in trying to help with this issue and they have replaced the P5370 that I bought with a new unit. Really kudos to B&H for their excellent customer support.

The problem is that the replacement P5370 that I received still produces roller marks on cut sheet photo black prints, although perhaps a bit less severe than the unit that I originally bought.

I have done a lot of troubleshooting about this issue and can confirm that the marks are certainly caused by the star wheels in the front rollers (the paper eject rollers) as they are present on the second half of any cut sheet that comes out of the printer, and they start from the point where the top and bottom front rollers engage and grab the sheet to continue advancing the page inside the printer after it is no longer controlled by the rear rollers.

I had initially thought that the issue would be resolved by selecting a setting that instructs the P5370 not to use the paper eject rollers (AKA front rollers), but I have now realized that that option only applies to roll paper and not cut sheets (because otherwise, in the case of a cut sheet, the printer would have no way to continue advancing and eventually ejecting the sheet).

I have confirmed this by printing the same image from a roll with the “do not use paper eject rollers” option selected and sure enough the front rollers did not engage and the print came out flawless, with zero roller marks.

So as things stand my P5370 is a perfect roll printer, but a flawed cut-sheet printer when it comes to non-matte papers because of the roller mark issue.

Just FYI, I have tested cut sheets of many different photo black papers from Epson, Canson and Hahnemuhle and all of them have experienced the roller mark issue.

Anecdotally, among fiber-based papers, the ones that proved to be more resistant to the issue were Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin (100% alpha cellulose with a satin finish), particularly if used with Enhanced Black Overcoat turned on, and Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta (100% alpha cellulose with a glossy finish): both papers still show roller marks, but they are pretty faint compared to the other fiber-based papers that I tested (which included papers made from 100% cotton fibers, 100% alpha-cellulose and a cotton/alpha-cellulose mix).

Note that not even RC papers (Epson Ultra Premium Luster and Hahnemuhle Photo Luster) were immune from the issue, although the roller marks on those RC papers were really minimal.

I have tried to increase the platen gap and the paper vacuum suction and to set an ink drying time delay per pass (I tried 1, 2 and 3 seconds) and nothing made any difference.

I am speaking to Epson tech support in an effort to figure things out, but wanted to ask if other P5370 users have experienced the issue and, if they have, what they have done to fix it. In all the research that I had made about the P5370 before making the switch, I had never read/heard anything about roller marks, but the fact that two different copies of that printer are both affected by the same issue makes me wonder whether it is more widespread than I thought.

Probably stating the obvious, but to verify if the issue is there one should print an image with a sizeable area of black or other very dark color on a glossy or satin/semigloss fiber-based paper and look at the print under a bright raking light. I am attaching a couple of iPhone pictures for reference.



Thank you.

You kind of answered what I thought would have to be the answer—work with roll paper. But Keith Cooper may have some ideas.

Gesture said:

You kind of answered what I thought would have to be the answer—work with roll paper. But Keith Cooper may have some ideas.

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Sure, it is AN answer, but not necessarily THE answer!

Jokes aside, for certain size prints (particularly, 12x18”) I would rather work with 13x19” cut sheets than 17” roll paper, which would result in 2 1/2” borders each side.

7x10” and 10x15” are much less of an issue on the other hand, although when I make a 10x15” portfolio, I normally print it on 11x17” sheets because I want to make sure that there is no difference (even minimal) in the size of the sheets once they all go into the portfolio.

Yes. This is discouraging if OEMs are having issues with manufacturing tolerances. But the pizza wheels have always been a limitation of this technology. I probably just don't look close enough at my prints.

When I first got the printer, I tried a bunch of different papers. I didn't come across the pizza wheel marks on any of them, except for one. I don't remember which paper it was, but the marks were very faint. I've since settled on using Moab Juniper Baryta. I was looking out for those markings too because it was an issue when I had the 3880.

Lumpia said:

When I first got the printer, I tried a bunch of different papers. I didn't come across the pizza wheel marks on any of them, except for one. I don't remember which paper it was, but the marks were very faint. I've since settled on using Moab Juniper Baryta. I was looking out for those markings too because it was an issue when I had the 3880.

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Thank you for the tip: Moab Juniper Baryta was not among the many papers that I tested (which included Epson, Canson and Hahnemuhle papers).

Sadly, there’s not much you can do about this issue.

As you might remember, I also notice these roller marks in my (semi)gloss prints on the PRO-1000. They’re often not very obvious (best visible with bright light from an angle), but it’s one of those “once you see it...” kind of issues.

They appear in every print with dark patches. All my friends with a PRO-1000/1100 notice them too in their prints (once they started looking for them).

Just like on the Epson, it’s the final row of metal pinching wheels that leaves dots in the coating. Maybe the pressure varies from unit to unit, but it’s not surprising that spiky metal wheels always leave a trace on a freshly made print.

The type of paper also makes a difference. Some coatings are more fragile than others.

In the end, I accepted this limitation because there's simply nothing you can do about it. Matte prints come out perfectly, and in your case you still have the option of printing from roll.

Hi Gryphon,

I noticed on my Epson p900 that these pizzawheel marks become more faint over time (24hrs) Not invisible however

i’m sure your observations are over several days, but just saying ;-)

I have printed hundreds and I mean hundreds of Hahnemuhle FAB on my P5370 and have yet to see these issues.

For me the test would be print, frame with glass and hang. If you cannot see issues from the proper viewing distance then it should be acceptable. If you can still see under those conditions then it absolutely is not acceptable. No shining flashlights on it allowed!


Dan Berg
Printmaking and Photo Mounting Workshops

jochenb said:

Sadly, there’s not much you can do about this issue.

As you might remember, I also notice these roller marks in my (semi)gloss prints on the PRO-1000. They’re often not very obvious (best visible with bright light from an angle), but it’s one of those “once you see it...” kind of issues.

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OMG, absolutely! Now my mind is irreversibly fixated on those damn microdots and I cannot unsee them!

jochenb said:

They appear in every print with dark patches. All my friends with a PRO-1000/1100 notice them too in their prints (once they started looking for them).

Just like on the Epson, it’s the final row of metal pinching wheels that leaves dots in the coating. Maybe the pressure varies from unit to unit, but it’s not surprising that spiky metal wheels always leave a trace on a freshly made print.

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Two observations here:

1. In the P5370 it looks like the star wheels in the front rollers that cause the pizza wheel marks are actually plastic, not metal - it doesn’t make a difference in the end result, just noticing;

2. Interesting what you say about the Pro 1000 because none of the three Pro 1100’s that I used had that issue, which makes me wonder whether the reformulated Lucia Pro II inks may have helped dealing with the issue as they are reported to have some kind of wax mixed in that is supposed to make prints more resistant to scuffs. Pure speculation on my end of course.

jochenb said:

The type of paper also makes a difference. Some coatings are more fragile than others.

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Definitely: unsurprisingly softer 100% cotton rag paper shows them much more than stiffer alpha-cellulose.

jochenb said:

In the end, I accepted this limitation because there's simply nothing you can do about it.

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I will let you know what the Epson tech says when they get back to me, just in case there were any worthwhile suggestions. I wonder whether they can fine tune the amount of pressure applied by the top and bottom front rollers on the paper when they close and grab the sheet. I also wonder whether installing the star wheels only on the bottom front roller and not on the top one which is in contact with the front of the print would be enough for the printer to still move the sheet forward.

jochenb said:

Matte prints come out perfectly, and in your case you still have the option of printing from roll.

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Yes on both counts.

Thank you for your input!

Ruud uit de Graaf said:

Hi Gryphon,

I noticed on my Epson p900 that these pizzawheel marks become more faint over time (24hrs) Not invisible however

i’m sure your observations are over several days, but just saying ;-)

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Hi Ruud,

You’re right: they do get a little fainter over time but you can still see them, particularly on papers that show them very clearly when they come out of the printer.

Another thing I noticed in the case of those papers that instead are more resilient to the issue and have fainter roller marks to begin with is that using Black Enhahnce Overcoat helps a tiny bit to make them less noticeable (although they are still there…)

Dan Berg said:

I have printed hundreds and I mean hundreds of Hahnemuhle FAB on my P5370 and have yet to see these issues.

For me the test would be print, frame with glass and hang. If you cannot see issues from the proper viewing distance then it should be acceptable. If you can still see under those conditions then it absolutely is not acceptable. No shining flashlights on it allowed!

Dan Berg
http://bergsprintstudio.com/workshops/
Printmaking and Photo Mounting Workshops

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So, among the several papers that I tested, HFA FA Baryta is, along with HFA FA Baryta Satin, the most resilient paper to roller marks that I have seen (I don’t think it is a coincidence that they are both 100% stiffer alpha-cellulose as opposed to softer cotton).

Those two papers are the ones that had fewer/fainter roller marks in my tests.

For me, the print should not have unsightly markings on it even if looked at with no glazing over it and even at close distance. I agree with you on not shining a flashlight on it though! ;-)

I will see what the Epson tech says. If worse comes to worst I guess that I will print B&W’s and color images that are likely to be affected by the issue out of a roll instead of using cut sheets. Sometimes not ideal, but it 100% takes care of the issue.

In 2nd photo?

Bob P.

Petruska said:

In 2nd photo?

Bob P.

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Good eye: that’s some banding that I got on HFA Photo Rag Pearl which however got corrected with a paper feed adjustment.

I have now run paper feed adjustments for all the papers that I use and while in some cases the required adjustments were fairly minimal, in other cases they were pretty extreme (like, sometimes requiring a correction value all the way to the end of the available range).

I find this discussion very interesting. I do not have much to add other than when the marks are very faint coating the prints with a spray such as Premier Print Shield the marks will disappear. It seems this issue has been around for a long time.

I am also reminded of color prints made on traditional light sensitive paper processed with an automatic processor such as a Kreonite would sometimes have marks from the rollers usually because the rollers were not perfectly clean. If the marks were small enough and only a few, we could use spotting color to hide them. In addition this problem also sometimes occurs when processing film with roller transport processor. That is an advantage of the dip and dunk film processors since the wet film never touched any rollers.


--bmw44

bmw44 said:

I find this discussion very interesting. I do not have much to add other than when the marks are very faint coating the prints with a spray such as Premier Print Shield the marks will disappear. It seems this issue has been around for a long time.

I am also reminded of color prints made on traditional light sensitive paper processed with an automatic processor such as a Kreonite would sometimes have marks from the rollers usually because the rollers were not perfectly clean. If the marks were small enough and only a few, we could use spotting color to hide them. In addition this problem also sometimes occurs when processing film with roller transport processor. That is an advantage of the dip and dunk film processors since the wet film never touched any rollers.

--bmw44

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Thank you for your input: your point about the protective spray is well taken - I have a can and may give it a try on HFA FA Baryta Satin (the fiber-based paper that proved to be most resistant to the issue) if the problem is not resolved.

Relatedly, many thanks to forum member Ken H. who was kind enough to run some tests with his P5370 and could confirm (among other things) that he is getting no roller marks on Canson Platine Fiber Rag, on which my P5370 leaves extremely visible roller marks: so this seems to prove that there are P5370’s out there that can print on PK fiber-based paper with no issue.

Interestingly enough, the S/N of Ken’s P5370 indicates an early production unit (unlike the two units that I used) which may suggest an issue with the front rollers installed in more recent units.

I have in the meantime spoken to Epson again and I am waiting for a callback from them to confirm whether the front rollers are back in stock and therefore whether they can send a technician out for service. I wonder if the front rollers being out of stock is due to Epson realizing that they got a bad batch and switching to a different supplier.

So many unknowns.

Like Dan, I to have printed hundreds of cut sheets in the last 18 months and have not seen anything like this. I use Moab Entrada, Red River Big Bend Baryta semi gloss, both in 17x25 sheets and RR Ultra Satin Pro 4.0 8x10 fed from the cassette.

After seeing your post, I carefully looked at some of my prints with a lot of black areas made on Juniper Baryta under a bright light and do not see any pizza wheel marks.

Thank you all for weighing in and for sharing your experiences with your P5370’s and even for double checking that your prints do not show the issue: I really appreciate it.

I wish to provide an update: earlier tonight I spoke to the Epson technician who told me that my case had been escalated and the supervisor confirmed that my printer will need service because it sounds like “it does not have the correct rollers”. The guy said that they are confirming that they have the “correct rollers” for the P5370 in stock so they can send out a technician to replace them. I am supposed to hear back tomorrow.

I take this to mean that there are P5370’s out there (including the one that I originally bought and the replacement unit that I now have) with let’s say “wrong rollers” installed that need to be replaced for the printer to work properly. The technician sounded confident that by replacing the rollers with the “correct ones” the issue is going to go away.

Let’s hope that they do have them in stock and that replacing the rollers actually takes care of the issue (I sure hope it does). I will provide an update after all is done.

I do hope this does solve your issue, so you can start enjoying this amazing printer.

Although the techs explanation is feasible, it sounds to me that it is more likely that the rollers supplied for this particular batch of printers were defective, or out of spec, rather that the wrong part number.