Why do Nikon mirrorless show exposure meter (with auto ISO) but Sonys do not?

Cameranoobie

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Im just curious why these two are so different. Nikon mirrorless bodies will show your constant moving exposure meter when using auto ISO. But on a Sony (especially newer models), it only shows Exposure compensation when your ISO is set to auto. And once you switch to manual ISO, it then shows the constant moving exposure meter.

Just curious. Even using Zebras and histograms, it's harder and takes more work to properly expose on a Sony mirrorless compared to a Nikon mirrorless. On my Nikon, I have the ISO on auto and I just set my aperture and then shutter speed until it's 0.0 on the exposure meter and it's always properly exposed. I dont use Zebras or the histogram on my Nikon.

But on a Sony you have to rely on zebras and histograms. And even that is not as accurate. I manually set my ISO dependant on my ambient lighting, and then set my shutter speed after until my exposure meter is at 0.0.
 
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I dont understand your problem, on my a7iv in caf with my shutter half pressed panning the camera my iso floats around in auto iso.
 
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If you have auto ISO selected, many different shutter speed and aperture combinations could produce a centered exposure. I don't completely understand. The Auto ISO is going to constantly vary the iso to attempt to give proper exposure. Never tried auto iso myself, but my wife uses it all the time.
 
I dont understand your problem, on my a7iv in caf with my shutter half pressed panning the camera my iso floats around in auto iso.
But your exposure meter won't show on the screen, it will only show exposure compensation with auto ISO.
 
If you have auto ISO selected, many different shutter speed and aperture combinations could produce a centered exposure. I don't completely understand. The Auto ISO is going to constantly vary the iso to attempt to give proper exposure. Never tried auto iso myself, but my wife uses it all the time.
Yes true but what im saying is on Sonys you need to have ISO on manual in order to see the exposure meter. Whereas on a Nikon it always shows the exposure meter by default even if you have ISO on auto.
 
I dont understand your problem, on my a7iv in caf with my shutter half pressed panning the camera my iso floats around in auto iso.
But your exposure meter won't show on the screen, it will only show exposure compensation with auto ISO.
I use the histogram which is 100% more useful than an exposure reading which really doesn't tell you much. Hardly anybody makes use of the exposure meter any more. Even exposure compensation is more useful. Since this is the first time I've read this complaint apparently most on DPR agree with me. I suspect the only time an exposure meter is useful is in manual mode.

My question is why does Nikon bother showing the exposure meter in auto ISO?

--
Tom
 
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If you have auto ISO selected, many different shutter speed and aperture combinations could produce a centered exposure. I don't completely understand. The Auto ISO is going to constantly vary the iso to attempt to give proper exposure. Never tried auto iso myself, but my wife uses it all the time.
Yes true but what im saying is on Sonys you need to have ISO on manual in order to see the exposure meter. Whereas on a Nikon it always shows the exposure meter by default even if you have ISO on auto.
What else do you have set to auto?

If you are in Aperture Priority with auto ISO what do you see?

If you are in shutter priority with auto ISO what do you see?

If you are in Programme with auto ISO what do you see?

If you have all three variables in auto what do you expect?
 
Im just curious why these two are so different. Nikon mirrorless bodies will show your constant moving exposure meter when using auto ISO.
Fujifilm cameras do this as well. If an exposure setting or ISO is delegated to a Fujifilm camera, the in-camera meter displays the exposure compensation (EC) setting.
But on a Sony (especially newer models), it only shows Exposure compensation when your ISO is set to auto. And once you switch to manual ISO, it then shows the constant moving exposure meter.

Just curious. Even using Zebras and histograms, it's harder and takes more work to properly expose on a Sony mirrorless compared to a Nikon mirrorless. On my Nikon, I have the ISO on auto and I just set my aperture and then shutter speed until it's 0.0 on the exposure meter and it's always properly exposed. I dont use Zebras or the histogram on my Nikon.
It's a misconception that an exposure value (EV) reading of 0 indicates a proper exposure.

Shutter speed and f-stop are the camera settings that determine exposure. ISO is used to manage image lightness. In-camera meters take ISO into account, which makes the readings an indicator of the lightness of that portion of the scene being metered.

A reading of 0 indicates a midtone lightness, but a correct exposure.
But on a Sony you have to rely on zebras and histograms. And even that is not as accurate. I manually set my ISO dependant on my ambient lighting, and then set my shutter speed after until my exposure meter is at 0.0.
The meter, histogram, and zebras all take ISO into account. As a result, they're indicators of image lightness. The EVF display also serves this purpose. It shows you how light or dark the photo will be.

Candidly, while I prefer Nikon's implementation of the in-camera meter, I don't see why it should take any longer or be any more difficult to confirm the settings in a Sony camera will deliver a pleasing image.

I've been shooting Fujifilm since 2017 and Nikon since the early 1990s. It's no more difficult or time-consuming to confirm good settings with a Fujifilm mirrorless camera than with a Nikon mirrorless. Yes, the reference displays can be different but the EVF display - the primary indicator of image lightness - is the same.

This is how the Sony EVF works, right? The EVF can be configured as a WYSIWYG display.
 
I dont understand your problem, on my a7iv in caf with my shutter half pressed panning the camera my iso floats around in auto iso.
But your exposure meter won't show on the screen, it will only show exposure compensation with auto ISO.
I use the histogram which is 100% more useful than an exposure reading which really doesn't tell you much. Hardly anybody makes use of the exposure meter any more. Even exposure compensation is more useful. Since this is the first time I've read this complaint apparently most on DPR agree with me. I suspect the only time an exposure meter is useful is in manual mode.

My question is why does Nikon bother showing the exposure meter in auto ISO?
I have the histogram on my Sony showing but I don't find it to be as accurate as the exposure meter. Even if you take a photo with the histogram ever so slightly off to the left or right, the slight under or overexposure will show in the photos.
 
If you have auto ISO selected, many different shutter speed and aperture combinations could produce a centered exposure. I don't completely understand. The Auto ISO is going to constantly vary the iso to attempt to give proper exposure. Never tried auto iso myself, but my wife uses it all the time.
Yes true but what im saying is on Sonys you need to have ISO on manual in order to see the exposure meter. Whereas on a Nikon it always shows the exposure meter by default even if you have ISO on auto.
What else do you have set to auto?

If you are in Aperture Priority with auto ISO what do you see?

If you are in shutter priority with auto ISO what do you see?

If you are in Programme with auto ISO what do you see?

If you have all three variables in auto what do you expect?
On my Nikon I shoot in M with Auto ISO all the time. On my Sony I shoot in M with manual ISO just to be able to see the exposure meter.
 
It's a misconception that an exposure value (EV) reading of 0 indicates a proper exposure.
Shutter speed and f-stop are the camera settings that determine exposure. ISO is used to manage image lightness. In-camera meters take ISO into account, which makes the readings an indicator of the lightness of that portion of the scene being metered.

A reading of 0 indicates a midtone lightness, but a correct exposure.
But on a Sony you have to rely on zebras and histograms. And even that is not as accurate. I manually set my ISO dependant on my ambient lighting, and then set my shutter speed after until my exposure meter is at 0.0.
The meter, histogram, and zebras all take ISO into account. As a result, they're indicators of image lightness. The EVF display also serves this purpose. It shows you how light or dark the photo will be.

Candidly, while I prefer Nikon's implementation of the in-camera meter, I don't see why it should take any longer or be any more difficult to confirm the settings in a Sony camera will deliver a pleasing image.

I've been shooting Fujifilm since 2017 and Nikon since the early 1990s. It's no more difficult or time-consuming to confirm good settings with a Fujifilm mirrorless camera than with a Nikon mirrorless. Yes, the reference displays can be different but the EVF display - the primary indicator of image lightness - is the same.

This is how the Sony EVF works, right? The EVF can be configured as a WYSIWYG display.
I may just have to get used to it. Not use to using Zebras and histograms to adjust the exposure. Zebras isnt always accurate I find. And adjusting ISO can be tricky to set each time if you're constantly moving from vastly different ambient environments, such as going outdoors to indoors and back outdoors. Even just turning or changing your angle can easily require a different ISO.

But generally I find by knowing your type of ambient lighting (sunny, overcast, low light) you will know the general range or a baseline ISO to work off of. But a lot of times, you still need to tweak the ISO to get it perfect.

Auto ISO has become so good and reliable in cameras these days that it's a setting I usually dont touch if I dont have to. Personally I find it more time consuming to look at a histogram or Zebras. Especially since histograms are fairly detailed and you can easily think it's in the dead centre when you may be slightly off to one side. Zebras I find easier to see and adjust though. But again neither Zebras or Histograms I have to ever use on my Nikon.
 
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If you have auto ISO selected, many different shutter speed and aperture combinations could produce a centered exposure. I don't completely understand. The Auto ISO is going to constantly vary the iso to attempt to give proper exposure. Never tried auto iso myself, but my wife uses it all the time.
Yes true but what im saying is on Sonys you need to have ISO on manual in order to see the exposure meter. Whereas on a Nikon it always shows the exposure meter by default even if you have ISO on auto.
What else do you have set to auto?

If you are in Aperture Priority with auto ISO what do you see?

If you are in shutter priority with auto ISO what do you see?

If you are in Programme with auto ISO what do you see?

If you have all three variables in auto what do you expect?
On my Nikon I shoot in M with Auto ISO all the time. On my Sony I shoot in M with manual ISO just to be able to see the exposure meter.
Thank you. I can see no logical reason why the two should be different.
 
It's a misconception that an exposure value (EV) reading of 0 indicates a proper exposure.
Shutter speed and f-stop are the camera settings that determine exposure. ISO is used to manage image lightness. In-camera meters take ISO into account, which makes the readings an indicator of the lightness of that portion of the scene being metered.

A reading of 0 indicates a midtone lightness, but a correct exposure.
But on a Sony you have to rely on zebras and histograms. And even that is not as accurate. I manually set my ISO dependant on my ambient lighting, and then set my shutter speed after until my exposure meter is at 0.0.
The meter, histogram, and zebras all take ISO into account. As a result, they're indicators of image lightness. The EVF display also serves this purpose. It shows you how light or dark the photo will be.

Candidly, while I prefer Nikon's implementation of the in-camera meter, I don't see why it should take any longer or be any more difficult to confirm the settings in a Sony camera will deliver a pleasing image.

I've been shooting Fujifilm since 2017 and Nikon since the early 1990s. It's no more difficult or time-consuming to confirm good settings with a Fujifilm mirrorless camera than with a Nikon mirrorless. Yes, the reference displays can be different but the EVF display - the primary indicator of image lightness - is the same.

This is how the Sony EVF works, right? The EVF can be configured as a WYSIWYG display.
I may just have to get used to it. Not use to using Zebras and histograms to adjust the exposure. Zebras isnt always accurate I find. And adjusting ISO can be tricky to set each time if you're constantly moving from vastly different ambient environments, such as going outdoors to indoors and back outdoors. Even just turning or changing your angle can easily require a different ISO.
More importantly, do those changes require a different exposure? The simplest approach I've found to choosing an exposure is to use the wide aperture (smallest f-number) that delivers a desirable depth of field and the longest exposure time (slowest shutter speed) that acceptably renders movement without blowing out important highlights.

The EVF display and an inset histogram are useful references confirming that important highlights aren't being blown out. Using auto ISO to float that setting enables one to focus attention on the more important f-stop and shutter speed settings, which determine exposure and image quality. Floating ISO does bring exposure compensation (EC) into play.
But generally I find by knowing your type of ambient lighting (sunny, overcast, low light) you will know the general range or a baseline ISO to work off of. But a lot of times, you still need to tweak the ISO to get it perfect.
I recommend starting with f-stop and shutter speed to ensure your creative and image quality goals are being met. You can allow ISO to float to match your choice of exposure.

If you combine this with an awareness of the tonality of the scene you're shooting, that goes a long way toward informing your choice of exposure compensation. Green grass has a midtone lightness. No or very little EC is typically needed. If photographing something that's naturally bright, anticipate needing to dial in a positive EC to achieve a pleasing image lightness. Naturally darker tones usually require a negative EC to produce a photo in which the scene matches the tonality to the eye.
Auto ISO has become so good and reliable in cameras these days that it's a setting I usually dont touch if I dont have to.
The key is to match auto ISO with the right metering mode. In most scenarios, matrix or center-weighted will get the job done. But the camera will, by design, make dark scenes/subjects appear lighter than they do to the eye and brighter scenes/subjects appear darker than normal. If that's the look you're going for, creatively, there's no need to use EC. However, if your goal is to make a photo in which the scene or subject lightness is close to matching how it looks to your eye, be prepared to make a quick adjustment to EC in those situations.
Personally I find it more time consuming to look at a histogram or Zebras. Especially since histograms are fairly detailed and you can easily think it's in the dead centre when you may be slightly off to one side.
A histogram offset to the left or right isn't an issue if it's matching the lightness of what's being metered and photographed. The environments I'm in and the subjects I photograph are often naturally bright. I typically target a meter reading of +2/3 to +1 stop to confirm they'll look as they do to the eye.
Zebras I find easier to see and adjust though. But again neither Zebras or Histograms I have to ever use on my Nikon.
While those references can be handy, there's certainly no requirement that either be used. You've got the WYSIWYG EVF display and the appearance of the scene to your eye as references. If the two match in lightness, that's usually a reliable indicator the photo will have a pleasing lightness. If you've chosen well with the f-stop and shutter speed, you're all set.
 
I dont understand your problem, on my a7iv in caf with my shutter half pressed panning the camera my iso floats around in auto iso.
But your exposure meter won't show on the screen, it will only show exposure compensation with auto ISO.
shutter speed,apeture, blinkies and histogram are active on the screen.
 
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It's a misconception that an exposure value (EV) reading of 0 indicates a proper exposure.
Shutter speed and f-stop are the camera settings that determine exposure. ISO is used to manage image lightness. In-camera meters take ISO into account, which makes the readings an indicator of the lightness of that portion of the scene being metered.

A reading of 0 indicates a midtone lightness, but a correct exposure.
But on a Sony you have to rely on zebras and histograms. And even that is not as accurate. I manually set my ISO dependant on my ambient lighting, and then set my shutter speed after until my exposure meter is at 0.0.
The meter, histogram, and zebras all take ISO into account. As a result, they're indicators of image lightness. The EVF display also serves this purpose. It shows you how light or dark the photo will be.

Candidly, while I prefer Nikon's implementation of the in-camera meter, I don't see why it should take any longer or be any more difficult to confirm the settings in a Sony camera will deliver a pleasing image.

I've been shooting Fujifilm since 2017 and Nikon since the early 1990s. It's no more difficult or time-consuming to confirm good settings with a Fujifilm mirrorless camera than with a Nikon mirrorless. Yes, the reference displays can be different but the EVF display - the primary indicator of image lightness - is the same.

This is how the Sony EVF works, right? The EVF can be configured as a WYSIWYG display.
I may just have to get used to it. Not use to using Zebras and histograms to adjust the exposure. Zebras isnt always accurate I find. And adjusting ISO can be tricky to set each time if you're constantly moving from vastly different ambient environments, such as going outdoors to indoors and back outdoors. Even just turning or changing your angle can easily require a different ISO.
More importantly, do those changes require a different exposure? The simplest approach I've found to choosing an exposure is to use the wide aperture (smallest f-number) that delivers a desirable depth of field and the longest exposure time (slowest shutter speed) that acceptably renders movement without blowing out important highlights.

The EVF display and an inset histogram are useful references confirming that important highlights aren't being blown out. Using auto ISO to float that setting enables one to focus attention on the more important f-stop and shutter speed settings, which determine exposure and image quality. Floating ISO does bring exposure compensation (EC) into play.
But generally I find by knowing your type of ambient lighting (sunny, overcast, low light) you will know the general range or a baseline ISO to work off of. But a lot of times, you still need to tweak the ISO to get it perfect.
I recommend starting with f-stop and shutter speed to ensure your creative and image quality goals are being met. You can allow ISO to float to match your choice of exposure.

If you combine this with an awareness of the tonality of the scene you're shooting, that goes a long way toward informing your choice of exposure compensation. Green grass has a midtone lightness. No or very little EC is typically needed. If photographing something that's naturally bright, anticipate needing to dial in a positive EC to achieve a pleasing image lightness. Naturally darker tones usually require a negative EC to produce a photo in which the scene matches the tonality to the eye.
Auto ISO has become so good and reliable in cameras these days that it's a setting I usually dont touch if I dont have to.
The key is to match auto ISO with the right metering mode. In most scenarios, matrix or center-weighted will get the job done. But the camera will, by design, make dark scenes/subjects appear lighter than they do to the eye and brighter scenes/subjects appear darker than normal. If that's the look you're going for, creatively, there's no need to use EC. However, if your goal is to make a photo in which the scene or subject lightness is close to matching how it looks to your eye, be prepared to make a quick adjustment to EC in those situations.
Personally I find it more time consuming to look at a histogram or Zebras. Especially since histograms are fairly detailed and you can easily think it's in the dead centre when you may be slightly off to one side.
A histogram offset to the left or right isn't an issue if it's matching the lightness of what's being metered and photographed. The environments I'm in and the subjects I photograph are often naturally bright. I typically target a meter reading of +2/3 to +1 stop to confirm they'll look as they do to the eye.
Zebras I find easier to see and adjust though. But again neither Zebras or Histograms I have to ever use on my Nikon.
While those references can be handy, there's certainly no requirement that either be used. You've got the WYSIWYG EVF display and the appearance of the scene to your eye as references. If the two match in lightness, that's usually a reliable indicator the photo will have a pleasing lightness. If you've chosen well with the f-stop and shutter speed, you're all set.
Thanks. Sounds like Im better off keeping my ISO on auto on both my Nikon and Sony and adjust the Exposure compensation when needed instead.

Histogram to me comes across easier to view and make adjustments than the Zebra. Zebra is okay but I just find it's not as quick as viewing the histogram.

I never knew that just because my photos are taken with the exposure meter right at 0.0 doesnt mean that it's always properly exposed. So in other words for majority of the shots taken (excluding really dark or really bright ones intentionally shot for that artistic look) if my histogram is slightly off to the left or right, it doesn't mean that my photo wasn't properly exposed. Correct?

So basically while viewing the histogram, get the reading as close as possible to the centre while judging on screen what you think looks the best. Correct? Excluding shots that are intentionally shot really dark or really bright of course.
 
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I never knew that just because my photos are taken with the exposure meter right at 0.0 doesnt mean that it's always properly exposed. So in other words for majority of the shots taken (excluding really dark or really bright ones intentionally shot for that artistic look) if my histogram is slightly off to the left or right, it doesn't mean that my photo wasn't properly exposed. Correct?
Correct. The histogram and in-camera meter are indicators of image lightness; not exposure.

If you're photographing a winter landscape with a large snow-covered field in manual exposure plus auto ISO, you'll want an EC in the +1 to +2 range to force the camera to produce a photo that looks bright white without the details on the field being blown out.

By contrast, if you're photographing a dark city street at night, you may want to dial in an EC of -1 to -2 to force the camera to choose an ISO to render the scene with a natural darkness.

Every scene has a tonal appearance to the eye. It could be light, dark or something in-between. If the camera is in a semi-auto mode, use EC to guide the camera in its choice of settings. Make the scene look good to you.
So basically while viewing the histogram, get the reading as close as possible to the centre while judging on screen what you think looks the best. Correct? Excluding shots that are intentionally shot really dark or really bright of course.
I use the histogram to confirm that I'm not blowing out highlights or crushing blacks. I rely mostly on the EVF display. If the scene looks good to me, that's what matters.
 
I dont understand your problem, on my a7iv in caf with my shutter half pressed panning the camera my iso floats around in auto iso.
But your exposure meter won't show on the screen, it will only show exposure compensation with auto ISO.
I use the histogram which is 100% more useful than an exposure reading which really doesn't tell you much. Hardly anybody makes use of the exposure meter any more. Even exposure compensation is more useful. Since this is the first time I've read this complaint apparently most on DPR agree with me. I suspect the only time an exposure meter is useful is in manual mode.

My question is why does Nikon bother showing the exposure meter in auto ISO?
I have the histogram on my Sony showing but I don't find it to be as accurate as the exposure meter. Even if you take a photo with the histogram ever so slightly off to the left or right, the slight under or overexposure will show in the photos.
To be honest I rely on the WYSIWYG feature of the EVF combined with the histogram and have no use for the exposure meter because the histogram works very well for me. The histogram is more accurate and useful than a simple exposure meter which doesn't really tell you anything other than suggesting a generic "proper" exposure.

--
Tom
 
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I have the histogram on my Sony showing but I don't find it to be as accurate as the exposure meter. Even if you take a photo with the histogram ever so slightly off to the left or right, the slight under or overexposure will show in the photos.
With either an exposure meter or a histogram, you have to be able to understand the content of the scene and relate it to what the display shows you in order to predict what the result will be. A scene in which the exposure meter is zeroed might easily turn out underexposed or overexposed. Interpreting a histogram only takes a little more study and practice than interpreting an exposure meter reading.

Simply speaking, a histogram is an exposure meter on steroids.
 
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So basically while viewing the histogram, get the reading as close as possible to the centre while judging on screen what you think looks the best. Correct? Excluding shots that are intentionally shot really dark or really bright of course.
The histogram can show you blown highlights to the right or underexposure to black on the left. A meter cannot do that.
 
So basically while viewing the histogram, get the reading as close as possible to the centre while judging on screen what you think looks the best. Correct? Excluding shots that are intentionally shot really dark or really bright of course.
It depends on the content of the scene and on your intentions.

Most want to capture the 'correct' exposure and will use the histogram to confirm that the brightest and darkest areas of the scene will be rendered with the luminosity they want. That might or might not mean centering the histogram, but centering it at least ensures that most areas won't be rendered too bright or too dark.

Some people use a different technique called expose to the right in order to capture as much useful light as possible. They like to see the histogram always pushed to the right side, but not letting anything go beyond. That might produce a result that looks too bright, but it will have the minimum noise and can be darkened later when processing the RAW file.
 
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