Canon Pro 1100 Banding Follow-Up (Continued #2)

doug_babynsx said:

MichalMazur said:

So how is the current situation Sir?

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Starting to run low on some inks from printing so much... So far I'm getting about >99% success with only one or two prints showing the slightest hint of banding (I've printed well over a hundred now). It is at a point now where I just don't worry about it anymore... Fingers crossed it stays that way and that others can find themselves a great copy of this printer.

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wmphoto said:

That's awesome to hear! That 1% still concerns me a bit. What was the issue with the prints that had banding? I would love to see the problem prints if you still have them. Glad to hear that it's mostly all good!

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doug_babynsx said:

wmphoto said:

That's awesome to hear! That 1% still concerns me a bit. What was the issue with the prints that had banding? I would love to see the problem prints if you still have them. Glad to hear that it's mostly all good!

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For context, the only slight banding that I believe I've experienced on 1-2 prints was really only there when viewed under a magnifying loop and was nothing like what I was experiencing with the previous printer.

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JamesRBnd said:

It is very important for all concerned to Not Accept product that is not working properly.

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wmphoto said:

Thats aweome bro. Super happy for you. I may have to request if I can try another printer to be sent to see if the issue has been resolved. I have been holding off for a few months now.

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doug_babynsx said:

wmphoto said:

Thats aweome bro. Super happy for you. I may have to request if I can try another printer to be sent to see if the issue has been resolved. I have been holding off for a few months now.

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With the results I'm getting now I'm very satisfied and convinced that the major issues that I struggled with (constantly) with my old printer are gone. I do check every image carefully (under a magnification lamp) but the number issues I've been able to detect are extremely small.

It may be relevant, but on those very few instances where I've seen anything at all, have been on my first prints of the day, and near the end of that print. I believe when the paper feed has stopped moving, and the head is just filling in the last bits of the image. This rules out a paper feed issue...

Those few artifacts have been extremely thin lines that I recall were clogged nozzles from my first printer (that a head clean would fix). These underperforming nozzles likely don't get utilized heavily during most of the print or have any backup during the last part of the print. After the first print, they get cleared out and all is well - seemingly. This has only happened a couple times so I'm speculating a bit based on very limited evidence.

I've been printing on various paper types and sizes and they are all coming out great. Gone are those images I simply can't print.

It would not surprise me that anyone getting the results I'm getting from day one would consider every print acceptable and wouldn't be diving as deep as I am looking for issues. I don't think we would be filling up pages and pages of this forum if my current experience was typical.

I truly hope that you and others can get working replacements.

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MichalMazur said:

Would it be possible to send you my file to be printed some small size e.g. A5 or sth to check if there is bending from my photo?

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Gryphon69 said:

This is great to hear and definitely promising: thank you for reporting and thank you in advance if you can keep us posted about your experience with your new 1100 in the coming weeks! BTW, what are the first digits of your replacement printer, just to kind of keep track?

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doug_babynsx said:

Gryphon69 said:

This is great to hear and definitely promising: thank you for reporting and thank you in advance if you can keep us posted about your experience with your new 1100 in the coming weeks! BTW, what are the first digits of your replacement printer, just to kind of keep track?

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Well, it's time for a disappointing update... I've come up against a banding issue that I can't seem to resolve, but have a fairly good idea on what the actual cause is.

Before that, I wanted to also suggest that people connect these printers via USB if you currently using WiFi an experiencing banding. During my latest issues, I decided to try doing that and found that not only did my print times decrease massively, most of the minor banding issues were resolved. I believe that when the printer is waiting for data to be received during the print, the slower than expected printing impacts banding in some fashion. This was my observation anyway...

So, where am I now and what can't I solve...

On prints at or above 13x19 (I've also tried 17x25) I'm getting consistent banding in areas that have sky or light gradients. Banding is ENTIRELY limited to the last 2-3" of the print and the rest of the print is always perfect.

I've ONLY tried Red River Palo Duro SoftGloss Rag in these larger sizes (I've ordered some different papers in these sizes to try).

I do have several different paper types in sizes smaller than 13x19 and they all work PERFECTLY with zero signs of banding, including RR Palo Duro SoftGloss Rag in these smaller sizes. My 11x17" prints using ILFORD smooth pearl are perfect.

At the moment I believe the issue is down to an observation in the way these larger prints finish, combined with the paper being used. Specifically, during the last couple inches of the print I notice that the feed rate changes during one of the scans (advancing about 10mm when all other advances are about 5mm). I believe this single "double" advance introduces a small alignment error with the larger/heavier paper and once there, results in banding for the remaining part of the print.

I do see this "double" advance on the 11x17" ILFORD paper but it does not have this issue, so it seems to me this is isolated to the larger SoftGloss Rag papers

What I find strange is that I notice on smaller paper sizes, I do not see the printer advance behavior with prints simply advancing at a constant rate until the print is finished. I wonder why Canon needs to operate the paper feed like this...

Notwithstanding this latest issue, I still want to say that this printer is massively better than my first example. I'm not at all happy that I've got this new problem, but my previous printer couldn't print out 5x7" prints consistently. I'm in entirely new territory and can (for now) try to work around this (if I can find a 13x19 or larger paper that I can print some of my more challenging prints effectively).

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Gryphon69 said:

doug_babynsx said:

Gryphon69 said:

This is great to hear and definitely promising: thank you for reporting and thank you in advance if you can keep us posted about your experience with your new 1100 in the coming weeks! BTW, what are the first digits of your replacement printer, just to kind of keep track?

Click to expand...

Well, it's time for a disappointing update... I've come up against a banding issue that I can't seem to resolve, but have a fairly good idea on what the actual cause is.

Before that, I wanted to also suggest that people connect these printers via USB if you currently using WiFi an experiencing banding. During my latest issues, I decided to try doing that and found that not only did my print times decrease massively, most of the minor banding issues were resolved. I believe that when the printer is waiting for data to be received during the print, the slower than expected printing impacts banding in some fashion. This was my observation anyway...

So, where am I now and what can't I solve...

On prints at or above 13x19 (I've also tried 17x25) I'm getting consistent banding in areas that have sky or light gradients. Banding is ENTIRELY limited to the last 2-3" of the print and the rest of the print is always perfect.

I've ONLY tried Red River Palo Duro SoftGloss Rag in these larger sizes (I've ordered some different papers in these sizes to try).

I do have several different paper types in sizes smaller than 13x19 and they all work PERFECTLY with zero signs of banding, including RR Palo Duro SoftGloss Rag in these smaller sizes. My 11x17" prints using ILFORD smooth pearl are perfect.

At the moment I believe the issue is down to an observation in the way these larger prints finish, combined with the paper being used. Specifically, during the last couple inches of the print I notice that the feed rate changes during one of the scans (advancing about 10mm when all other advances are about 5mm). I believe this single "double" advance introduces a small alignment error with the larger/heavier paper and once there, results in banding for the remaining part of the print.

I do see this "double" advance on the 11x17" ILFORD paper but it does not have this issue, so it seems to me this is isolated to the larger SoftGloss Rag papers

What I find strange is that I notice on smaller paper sizes, I do not see the printer advance behavior with prints simply advancing at a constant rate until the print is finished. I wonder why Canon needs to operate the paper feed like this...

Notwithstanding this latest issue, I still want to say that this printer is massively better than my first example. I'm not at all happy that I've got this new problem, but my previous printer couldn't print out 5x7" prints consistently. I'm in entirely new territory and can (for now) try to work around this (if I can find a 13x19 or larger paper that I can print some of my more challenging prints effectively).

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Thank you for this update and for the detailed troubleshooting analysis. Very interesting. Please do let us know if you experience the same issue with paper other than RR PDSG or if it is an issue that is specific to PDSG (the former sounds more likely than the latter, but you never know).

And please make sure you report this new issue to Canon!

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doug_babynsx said:

Gryphon69 said:

doug_babynsx said:

Gryphon69 said:

This is great to hear and definitely promising: thank you for reporting and thank you in advance if you can keep us posted about your experience with your new 1100 in the coming weeks! BTW, what are the first digits of your replacement printer, just to kind of keep track?

Click to expand...

Well, it's time for a disappointing update... I've come up against a banding issue that I can't seem to resolve, but have a fairly good idea on what the actual cause is.

Before that, I wanted to also suggest that people connect these printers via USB if you currently using WiFi an experiencing banding. During my latest issues, I decided to try doing that and found that not only did my print times decrease massively, most of the minor banding issues were resolved. I believe that when the printer is waiting for data to be received during the print, the slower than expected printing impacts banding in some fashion. This was my observation anyway...

So, where am I now and what can't I solve...

On prints at or above 13x19 (I've also tried 17x25) I'm getting consistent banding in areas that have sky or light gradients. Banding is ENTIRELY limited to the last 2-3" of the print and the rest of the print is always perfect.

I've ONLY tried Red River Palo Duro SoftGloss Rag in these larger sizes (I've ordered some different papers in these sizes to try).

I do have several different paper types in sizes smaller than 13x19 and they all work PERFECTLY with zero signs of banding, including RR Palo Duro SoftGloss Rag in these smaller sizes. My 11x17" prints using ILFORD smooth pearl are perfect.

At the moment I believe the issue is down to an observation in the way these larger prints finish, combined with the paper being used. Specifically, during the last couple inches of the print I notice that the feed rate changes during one of the scans (advancing about 10mm when all other advances are about 5mm). I believe this single "double" advance introduces a small alignment error with the larger/heavier paper and once there, results in banding for the remaining part of the print.

I do see this "double" advance on the 11x17" ILFORD paper but it does not have this issue, so it seems to me this is isolated to the larger SoftGloss Rag papers

What I find strange is that I notice on smaller paper sizes, I do not see the printer advance behavior with prints simply advancing at a constant rate until the print is finished. I wonder why Canon needs to operate the paper feed like this...

Notwithstanding this latest issue, I still want to say that this printer is massively better than my first example. I'm not at all happy that I've got this new problem, but my previous printer couldn't print out 5x7" prints consistently. I'm in entirely new territory and can (for now) try to work around this (if I can find a 13x19 or larger paper that I can print some of my more challenging prints effectively).

Click to expand...

Thank you for this update and for the detailed troubleshooting analysis. Very interesting. Please do let us know if you experience the same issue with paper other than RR PDSG or if it is an issue that is specific to PDSG (the former sounds more likely than the latter, but you never know).

And please make sure you report this new issue to Canon!

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New ticket filed with Canon and I gave them a complete description of what I'm observing in hopes that it helps them find a solution faster. Fingers crossed. New paper is on the way and we will see what happens...

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Gryphon69 said:

Awesome, thank you so much!!!

On my end I can only report yet another intermediate, inconclusive update from Canon where I was told that Canon USA has shipped a whole bunch of Pro 1100’s showing banding issues to Canon Japan, but they are reportedly still undergoing testing over there and there is no ETA as to when this process is expected to complete.

Nine months later, here we are…

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doug_babynsx said:

Gryphon69 said:

Awesome, thank you so much!!!

On my end I can only report yet another intermediate, inconclusive update from Canon where I was told that Canon USA has shipped a whole bunch of Pro 1100’s showing banding issues to Canon Japan, but they are reportedly still undergoing testing over there and there is no ETA as to when this process is expected to complete.

Nine months later, here we are…

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The Canon service person I spoke with today also confirmed that they shipped a bunch of 1100's to Japan. I was advised by a different Canon representative that I should try vacuuming out the rollers (inside and out) as the heavier and larger RR rag paper may be dusting up the printer causing feeding issues.

These feeding issues may be amplified (my theory) by the non-uniform feed rates near the end of the prints. I will be continuing my testing later in the week (when the new papers arrive) and will post my findings here.

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wmphoto said:

doug_babynsx said:

Gryphon69 said:

Awesome, thank you so much!!!

On my end I can only report yet another intermediate, inconclusive update from Canon where I was told that Canon USA has shipped a whole bunch of Pro 1100’s showing banding issues to Canon Japan, but they are reportedly still undergoing testing over there and there is no ETA as to when this process is expected to complete.

Nine months later, here we are…

Click to expand...

The Canon service person I spoke with today also confirmed that they shipped a bunch of 1100's to Japan. I was advised by a different Canon representative that I should try vacuuming out the rollers (inside and out) as the heavier and larger RR rag paper may be dusting up the printer causing feeding issues.

These feeding issues may be amplified (my theory) by the non-uniform feed rates near the end of the prints. I will be continuing my testing later in the week (when the new papers arrive) and will post my findings here.

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What a bummer. Sorry to hear. I honestly don't think any maintenance should have to be done at this point. These are all brand-new printers. I owned the Pro 1000 for years, and never had to vacuum my printer, and I doubt that's something mentioned in Canon's manual. There are some very sensitive parts, I think a vacuum could damage, especially that transparent strip on the inside of the printer.

Having banding at the last part of the image is typical for these Pro-1100 printers. It won't be all the images you print. I can't understand exactly why some images print fine, and some don't. I wish that we could just start selling the Pro 1000 again.

I hope they are working relentlessly to fix this, because in some people's cases, 9 months is getting to be excessive. I am about 4 months in, and it's taking its toll on my business. The techs and customer service have no control. They are basically just trying to put out the fires and keep people happy the best they can.

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Gryphon69 said:

wmphoto said:

What a bummer. Sorry to hear. I honestly don't think any maintenance should have to be done at this point. These are all brand-new printers. I owned the Pro 1000 for years, and never had to vacuum my printer, and I doubt that's something mentioned in Canon's manual. There are some very sensitive parts, I think a vacuum could damage, especially that transparent strip on the inside of the printer.

Having banding at the last part of the image is typical for these Pro-1100 printers. It won't be all the images you print. I can't understand exactly why some images print fine, and some don't. I wish that we could just start selling the Pro 1000 again.

I hope they are working relentlessly to fix this, because in some people's cases, 9 months is getting to be excessive. I am about 4 months in, and it's taking its toll on my business. The techs and customer service have no control. They are basically just trying to put out the fires and keep people happy the best they can.

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Yeah, I don’t buy the vacuuming thing either - not for brand new printers at least! I think until Canon Japan has the issue sorted out for real, level one technicians are just recommending whatever they can think of.

The issue is that you get to a point where you just wonder how much longer you will have to wait for a manufacturer to fix a defective product while you patiently sit there waiting and absorbing the costs of the malfunction while they try to figure out what went wrong.

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MichalMazur said:

I talked to tech guy from support.
In very short I sent them most problematic photo (darker, gradient) and they experience the same banding as I do and they said the product works as intended and it’s an image problem or that's just how it works...
The guy was very polite and seemed supportive but not sure what they can do.

I’m now collecting all defective prints and will send them…

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1. he is full of it and what he told you is unacceptable;
2. if this is the way the 1100 was intended to work, he should (always politely of course) point you to the official Canon language on Canon website or customer-avalable product literature that warns and discloses to buyers that what they are about to print is a printer that may or may bot print your images correctly and buyers should accept these product limitations;
3. what they can do about the issue that they themselves have replicated is fix it;
4. you know that Canon knows that banding is a known issue with the Pro 1100 and there are a bunch of 1100 units that are being tested by Canon Japan to identify the cause of the problem and resolve it;
5. you paid for a pro-level printer that prints all images, not a defective printer that only prints certain kinds of images;
6. customers have rights and if he doesn’t escalate your case pronto and actively helps you resolve the issue of a unit that is clearly defective (whether through a replacement or a refund) you will file a complaint with your country’s consumer protection agency for Canon breaching their warranty.

Gryphon69 said:

MichalMazur said:

I talked to tech guy from support.
In very short I sent them most problematic photo (darker, gradient) and they experience the same banding as I do and they said the product works as intended and it’s an image problem or that's just how it works...
The guy was very polite and seemed supportive but not sure what they can do.

I’m now collecting all defective prints and will send them…

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This one is precious. Unless you were trying to print an image with fine lines embedded into the image itself, I can’t believe the nerve that the technician had in telling you this.

Perhaps you could consider telling him that:

1. he is full of it and what he told you is unacceptable;
2. if this is the way the 1100 was intended to work, he should (always politely of course) point you to the official Canon language on Canon website or customer-avalable product literature that warns and discloses to buyers that what they are about to print is a printer that may or may bot print your images correctly and buyers should accept these product limitations;
3. what they can do about the issue that they themselves have replicated is fix it;
4. you know that Canon knows that banding is a known issue with the Pro 1100 and there are a bunch of 1100 units that are being tested by Canon Japan to identify the cause of the problem and resolve it;
5. you paid for a pro-level printer that prints all images, not a defective printer that only prints certain kinds of images;
6. customers have rights and if he doesn’t escalate your case pronto and actively helps you resolve the issue of a unit that is clearly defective (whether through a replacement or a refund) you will file a complaint with your country’s consumer protection agency for Canon breaching their warranty.

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