Nikon Z9 autofocus fails on eyes

Hi everyone!
Contacting you, this is my last chance to find a solution to the problem with the autofocus of my Z9.
My Z9 regularly fails with autofocus on eyes. I take two shots in series: one in focus, one not. Sometimes bad first, sometimes second. And this happens a lot of times.
I've read a lot of conversations about what can be done. I tried to turn on the Astro mode, tried to increase the brightness of the shadows. Tried to change A1: priority AF-C: release, focus+relese, focus. Without changes.. Nothing helps.
I've been shooting with Nikon since the D90, but now I don't have the strength to deal with this problem anymore. I'm ready to sell my camera and switch to another system...

Camera parameters:
Nikkor Z 24-70 2.8s Lens
Firmware 4.01
AF-C
M mode
3D or Auto Mode
Single Frame mode S
AF detection : people

Here are examples of photos taken with a split-second difference. The camera is steady and fixed, the child does not move, but the autofocus is regularly mistaken.

Exposure parameters:
1/200
f 4.5
iso 200
70 mm

All photos were taken with the AF-ON button pressed in one series of frames.

What could be the matter? What am I doing wrong? Or is it a system error?


bad focus




bad focus




bad focus

Suggest that you upgrade to firmware 4.10 and try again.

I used FastRawViewer to highlight fine details in these jpgs. These red dots and lines will normally show the zone of focus, and front or back focus is immediately obvious. The image is dimmed while in this display mode.

screen captures:

The focused photo. Lots of fine detail all over. (Parts of his shirt don't show red because they might be somewhat overexposed.)



~~

The out of focus photo. There's no red at all, which surprised me. So front back focused that there's no part of the subject still in focus?



The second pair of images is the same thing, no red at all on the out of focus one.

~~~~

This one looks quite heavily back focused, and there's way more depth to see in this view. (I edited the screen capture to make the red details more visible, this capture was hard to see. View the Original Size.) Hair bows and necklace are in focus.

There was a similar post about the Zf on here recently, and I did not think much of it. But then, I used my Z8 to shoot some portraits (for work, so I cannot share those shots), and I noticed the same thing. I was in "people"-priority/eye detect (wide area) AF with good light, continuous low at 5 fps, back-button AF, and used the 85/1.8 Z lens at f/2.8. In bursts of 5-7 shots, usually only one or two were in focus, the rest was out of focus, even tough neither me nor the subjects moved. I got the shots I needed, and those that are in focus were very good, but still, this is a bit weird.

AntonVM said:

Hi everyone!
Contacting you, this is my last chance to find a solution to the problem with the autofocus of my Z9.
My Z9 regularly fails with autofocus on eyes. I take two shots in series: one in focus, one not. Sometimes bad first, sometimes second. And this happens a lot of times.
I've read a lot of conversations about what can be done. I tried to turn on the Astro mode, tried to increase the brightness of the shadows. Tried to change A1: priority AF-C: release, focus+relese, focus. Without changes.. Nothing helps.
I've been shooting with Nikon since the D90, but now I don't have the strength to deal with this problem anymore. I'm ready to sell my camera and switch to another system...

Camera parameters:
Nikkor Z 24-70 2.8s Lens
Firmware 4.01
AF-C
M mode
3D or Auto Mode
Single Frame mode S
AF detection : people

Here are examples of photos taken with a split-second difference. The camera is steady and fixed, the child does not move, but the autofocus is regularly mistaken.

Exposure parameters:
1/200
f 4.5
iso 200
70 mm

All photos were taken with the AF-ON button pressed in one series of frames.

What could be the matter? What am I doing wrong? Or is it a system error?


bad focus




bad focus




bad focus

Click to expand...

I shoot wildlife and that is my experience with the Z8/Z9. Seems to randomly focus on other things despite the focus box being in the right place. FW4.1 on Z9 was what I used. examples posted elsewhere some time ago.

First of all, thanks for FastRawViewer!!! I never used it before. It looks great app for work with fotos in addition to Lightroom.

For me, it looks like Nikon broken focus AF functionality in some firmware update... I don't know what to do.

duncang said:

I shoot wildlife and that is my experience with the Z8/Z9. Seems to randomly focus on other things despite the focus box being in the right place. FW4.1 on Z9 was what I used. examples posted elsewhere some time ago.

Click to expand...

Yes, focus box is on right place on the screen, but real photo is out of focus... It causes me to check every shot.

Recently, there are lots of threads with AF issues like this. I use the original Z6 and was hoping, that all these issues will be fixed in an upcoming Z6 III.

I can relate to these issues, having taken portraits with flash, but without modeling lamps. It's hit or miss with the focus, even at f6.3 or above.

I was using eye AF in AF-C at first, then switched to AF-S which was better. Finally switching to single point (not pin point) was the most reliable, but least comfortable solution.

The only better solution are modeling lamps or somewhat more contrasty room light. The latter forcing you to use smaller apertures or HSS, if you don't want mixed lighting.

Please, Nikon: Do something about that!

I don't shoot portraits or nature much so I care less about pin point eye AF.

But surely it's something that can be solved Via firmware.
Not sure why Nikon ignore this...
This is the're main weaknesses compared to Canon and Sony according to most reviews , this is where they say Nikon falls (fro know , Toney and chealsy etc...)
Come on Nikon Fix it!

jthomas39 said:

The second pair of images is the same thing, no red at all on the out of focus one.

Click to expand...

No red box indicates focus was not achieved using shutter priority AF.

With a static subject and camera you could experiment with focus priority AF.

AntonVM said:

Hi everyone!
Contacting you, this is my last chance to find a solution to the problem with the autofocus of my Z9.
My Z9 regularly fails with autofocus on eyes. I take two shots in series: one in focus, one not. Sometimes bad first, sometimes second. And this happens a lot of times.
I've read a lot of conversations about what can be done. I tried to turn on the Astro mode, tried to increase the brightness of the shadows. Tried to change A1: priority AF-C: release, focus+relese, focus. Without changes.. Nothing helps.
I've been shooting with Nikon since the D90, but now I don't have the strength to deal with this problem anymore. I'm ready to sell my camera and switch to another system...

Camera parameters:
Nikkor Z 24-70 2.8s Lens
Firmware 4.01
AF-C
M mode
3D or Auto Mode
Single Frame mode S
AF detection : people

Here are examples of photos taken with a split-second difference. The camera is steady and fixed, the child does not move, but the autofocus is regularly mistaken.

Exposure parameters:
1/200
f 4.5
iso 200
70 mm

All photos were taken with the AF-ON button pressed in one series of frames.

What could be the matter? What am I doing wrong? Or is it a system error?

Click to expand...

I would use AF-S in a setting like this, and click the shutter button when focus is confirmed. No need for AF-C if the subject is more or less static.

Check that "a2 AF-S priority selection" is set to "focus" (default setting).

First two shots seem to be heavy front focused, and the last one back focused, and that does not look like the typical slightly off "eye lash focusing" that can occur in some cases.

AF-C will always jerk around a bit, and more so in low light so taking only two shots might make things more random. How does the the modeling light (light without flash) look like?

Don't use 3D focus for this scenario - it's intended for precise focus on a subject that then moves across the frame, but it's critical that initial focus is acquired for it to work. Think about a person walking across a frame or a horse going over a jump. Depending on the subject, it can do a lot more and may often work for subject detection if there are no competing subjects, but you need to make sure the subject is found as a prerequisite for any tracking.

Use a smaller AF Area mode with Subject detection - Wide Small of Wide Medium. It will give you a box to put on the subject's face, and the eye will be in focus and highlighted. Even if it were to struggle, it uses Nearest Subject Priority and will pick up the face of the subject. It almost never misses.

These look like studio images. Are your images dark and lit by strobes? If so, they may be too dak for the camera to clearly recognize the eye. You can add a modeling light to increase ambient, or switch to Low Light mode and might have better success. I don't recall whether Low Light AF works with AF-C or not, but you can always switch to AF-S. Low Light AF supports very low light scenes.

You probably want to spend a little more time understanding your AF area modes and how they relate to subject detection and initial focus acquisition. The Wide Modes and Area Mode use all of the subject detection options, but limiting the area and selecting People only rather than Auto helps. The priority for these modes is subject, face, and then eye. Unless you are using a very fast lens wide open from close range, face recognition is enough to insure sharp focus. Also note that the little boxes are an overlay - the camera focuses without using the boxes faster than they are rendered - so you likely will have photos that are sharp and in focus with just face detection.

I see the same thing with my Z8, i generally use as small boxes as possible with subject detection set to people, and it generally puts the small box around the eye, but a great many of the photos are not in focus.

I have no other camera to compare to, except an old canon compact, which I never had this issue with

edit: using F4

AntonVM said:

Hi everyone!
Contacting you, this is my last chance to find a solution to the problem with the autofocus of my Z9.
My Z9 regularly fails with autofocus on eyes. I take two shots in series: one in focus, one not. Sometimes bad first, sometimes second. And this happens a lot of times.

Click to expand...

It's not simply the Z9, the Z8 suffers from the same problem.

AntonVM said:

I've read a lot of conversations about what can be done. I tried to turn on the Astro mode, tried to increase the brightness of the shadows. Tried to change A1: priority AF-C: release, focus+relese, focus. Without changes.. Nothing helps.

Click to expand...

Nope, apart from maybe upgrading your FW. Nikon appears to be the least adept of the big three in terms of eye AF.

AntonVM said:

I've been shooting with Nikon since the D90, but now I don't have the strength to deal with this problem anymore. I'm ready to sell my camera and switch to another system...

All photos were taken with the AF-ON button pressed in one series of frames.

What could be the matter? What am I doing wrong? Or is it a system error?

Click to expand...

See above. If the AF doesn't improve with the upgraded FW, you can try different lenses/lighting, MF, or switch systems.

AntonVM said:

Camera parameters:
Nikkor Z 24-70 2.8s Lens
Firmware 4.01

Click to expand...

You state that you have Firmware 4.01

The Latest is 4.1

Was that a typo?

Adam2 said:

It's not simply the Z9, the Z8 suffers from the same problem.

Click to expand...

Z7ii on recent shoot missed about 10% focus (1,100 total shots 112 bad focus)

Member said:

Nope, apart from maybe upgrading your FW. Nikon appears to be the least adept of the big three in terms of eye AF.

Click to expand...

Sony A7iii is way better then Z7ii at finding eye. no matter of orientation of eye

Member said:

See above. If the AF doesn't improve with the upgraded FW, you can try different lenses/lighting, MF, or switch systems.

Click to expand...

Sony A7iii in the same studio setup and similar lens Zeiss Batis 85 f/1.8 vs Nikon Z85 f/1.8

Both using f/2.8 setting.

Also Nikon could not find eye when the models head was sideways Sony had no issues.

Models By Day said:

AntonVM said:

Camera parameters:
Nikkor Z 24-70 2.8s Lens
Firmware 4.01

Click to expand...

You state that you have Firmware 4.01

The Latest is 4.1

Click to expand...

Also, the lens should report/have firmware L1.20.

Thom Hogan said:

Thom Hogan said:

You state that you have Firmware 4.01

The Latest is 4.1

Click to expand...

Also, the lens should report/have firmware L1.20.

Click to expand...

Thanks completely forgot about Lens

I checked my Z85 f/1.8 and it needed update

I shoot mostly horses, and use animal detect and AF Wide focus area and AFC. Have had really good luck with it.

In another recent post, the OP found a discussion on Fred Miranda that was basically describing the same problem.

The discovery for a workaround was to put VR/IBIS in Sport mode. Yes, real intuitive isn't it?

Anyways, several people confirmed in that Fred Miranda post that this was a big help in achieving better people/eye subject detection and focus.

Bug? Or side effect of Nikon's VR/IBIS implementation? Don't know. But the bottom line was to not have VR set to Normal when using people/eye subject detection.