Will Nikon make a Zfc FF?

I sold my Nikon camera around 2012 to buy a Sony A7.

I actually bought into Nikon in the first place because I knew I could mount vintage Nikkor glass, but I always found the focusing screens and manual focusing aids to be not so great - at least on the cameras I could afford.

When the Nikon Df came out - that was their opportunity to correct that, but they didn't. The Df did have a cool feature of being able to flip the AI lever away, allowing you to mount pre-AI lenses (IMO the real selling point of that camera), but the focusing screen still wasn't up to focusing those manual lenses.

In fact it seems to be worse than the D850 at allowing you to acquire manual focus. I've often toyed with the idea of getting the Df and replacing the focusing screen and using it as a digital Nikon F.

The Nikon Z fc is, by all accounts plasticky. Plus, if I want to mount vintage lenses to something, I want it to be full frame to take advantage of the full character of the lens - not just the center where most lenses tend to perform best.

The reason I'm bringing this up now is that someone has made a "vintage" 35mm f/1.4 in Z mount that looks the part and seems to capture the vintage optical formula. That I'd love to put on the front of a full-frame Zfc... No adapters throwing off the balance and the look of the camera.

I like 35mm for "Every day" use - just documenting things in my life, and the large aperture means I can get some subject separation. But it's kind of silly to mount it to a Z8.

The 28mm lens that comes with the Z fc is - IMO - a great focal length for an APS-C crop camera. It's f/2.8 (f/4 FF equiv), to get wider apertures at 28mm lenses typically need to add a lot of glass and weight. 35mm f/1.4 lenses seem to be relatively compact.

My wishlist for a Zfc FF is

• Decent build quality, but maybe not as heavy as Nikon cameras tend to be, but their typical magnesium alloy tank like build that will last for years of daily use and travel - something I don't have to worry about. (The Olympus Pen-F build quality is great, if it lacks weather sealing).
• Decent manual controls to take me back to my Pentax K1000 days, but with all the modern upgrades - especially front and rear dials for aperture and shutter speed.
• If no grip, then it should definitely be relatively light weight. A nice grip accessory that doesn't look cheap and plasticky and modern would be welcome if it is heavy, though I'm sure the 3rd party market will take care of this.
• For more of these 3rd party Chinese manufacturers like Astralab to come out with a 50mm lens for it - preferably a clone of the 50mm f/1.4 AI complete with spherical aberration.
• Oh and a spinny rear screen that makes the rear look the part of a film camera a-la the Epson RD1. People tend to react to cameras differently if they think it's a film camera.
• If it can maintain the same features as the Z8, I'd be willing for it to weigh a bit more and have a bit of bulk to it, but would really want that extra grip.
• A 35mm f/1.4 autofocusing lens that looks the part.

Until then - I'll keep mounting my vintage Nikkor and (not as vintage) Leica M glass on my Sony A7, even if after a decade of use the rear screen is beginning to get damaged & with the AA filter I feel like I'm not getting the best monochrome images out of my sharpest glass.

A Zf has been rumoured for a long time and is expected to be very popular in high-end stores in Asia/the far east not in rural USA.

Hi,

The answer is: Maybe.

Or maybe that R+D group will opt for a digital S based on a Z. No one knows until they announce something.

I have had no issues with manually focusing vintage Nikkors on my Df using the F4 method. Lock it to the center AF point. Go past the confirmation dot and return. Works well enough that I did not opt for an old school split image rangefinder screen.

I had intended on putting a split image screen in when I bought my Df. But then I figured that would interfere with more modern AF lenses. When I realized that the instructions from my old F4 regarding manual focusing still worked, I opted to not change the screen. The F4, BTW, only had the single center AF sensor. The scheme works well on the F5 and D1 as well.

There is a bit of a fuss involved to change focusing screens, even a bit more of fuss than it was with the FM/FE/FA. And therein lies what I think Nikon missed the boat on with the Df: They should have made it a digital F3 instead. All the F(1) thru F5 cameras had swappable viewfinders and really easy to swap focusing screens. I have 8 for the F5 for example which I often change out depending on what I'm shooting.

Stan

All good thoughts, and great ideas, but don't know if I would hold my breath if that was what I was waiting for. I can kinda understand though, because for a guy that really does not like evf's, when the Zfc came out just had to have one and have never been sorry I grabbed one. Outside of wishing it had a mirror and prism quite often. Oh, and the other part of the picture is that I have absolutely no desire for FF and am DX all the way. So you FF guys will just have to wait for a FF Zfc, or convert to the modern digital world of smaller sensors. :-D

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

The answer is: Maybe.

Or maybe that R+D group will opt for a digital S based on a Z. No one knows until they announce something.

I have had no issues with manually focusing vintage Nikkors on my Df using the F4 method. Lock it to the center AF point. Go past the confirmation dot and return. Works well enough that I did not opt for an old school split image rangefinder screen.

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From my understanding, focusing screens are designed to resolve up to a certain aperture. I'm not familiar with the F4 method (which sounds like it refers to the Nikon F4 and not the aperture).

The video I linked before had a similar method for focusing with the Df, but says that he can reliably trust the AF confirmation dot on the D850, but not the Df. I always hated the confirmation dot as it took my eye away from the central portion of the image.

Stan Disbrow said:

I had intended on putting a split image screen in when I bought my Df. But then I figured that would interfere with more modern AF lenses. When I realized that the instructions from my old F4 regarding manual focusing still worked, I opted to not change the screen. The F4, BTW, only had the single center AF sensor. The scheme works well on the F5 and D1 as well.

Click to expand...

I've also heard that replaced focusing screens don't interfere (much?) with a camera's autofocus capabilities for some reason. I'm typically a single point focuser myself, but with modern mirrorless cameras with face and eye detect, I've started to use that more as my compositions or the time taken to switch focusing dots would affect the final image.

I'm reasonably happy with my Sony A7's focusing aids - the shimmering dots and ability to punch in for critical focus. For event photography, I get things reasonably in focus (face in focus, eyes not so much) just using the shimmering dots.

Stan Disbrow said:

There is a bit of a fuss involved to change focusing screens, even a bit more of fuss than it was with the FM/FE/FA. And therein lies what I think Nikon missed the boat on with the Df: They should have made it a digital F3 instead. All the F(1) thru F5 cameras had swappable viewfinders and really easy to swap focusing screens. I have 8 for the F5 for example which I often change out depending on what I'm shooting.

Stan

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Yes, I was going to have my focusing screen professionally replaced by a repair shop.

I do think Nikon missed out on a huge opportunity with the Df - if it had more reliable manual focusing aids, such as a split prism/microprism focusing screen.

I am keen to get a full-frame ZF, as long as I can get it in black. The black Zfc looks great.

I have a Df and love the sensor output, the original 16mp D4 sensor is one of the best made in my opinion, and creates lovely images.

As far as using old Nikkor Ai and pre-Ai manual focus lenses it is not bad, and I was quite happy with the results I was getting; until I got a Z7.

The mirrorless setup really does breathe new life into old lenses. The focusing aids available really make it very easy to get extremely good results. Between focus peaking and the ability to view focus at 100% on a button press, there are no excuses for not getting fantastic images from them.

As for the Zfc, I was very tempted when it came out and only the DX sensor put me off. I think it's nicely made, the controls feel good and, in all honesty, who really cares about the battery door? It opens and closes, that's pretty much all I require from it.

A black ZF, preferably about 36mp, with the manual focus abilities of the Z7 would prove irresistible to me.

Bob A L said:

All good thoughts, and great ideas, but don't know if I would hold my breath if that was what I was waiting for. I can kinda understand though, because for a guy that really does not like evf's, when the Zfc came out just had to have one and have never been sorry I grabbed one. Outside of wishing it had a mirror and prism quite often. Oh, and the other part of the picture is that I have absolutely no desire for FF and am DX all the way. So you FF guys will just have to wait for a FF Zfc, or convert to the modern digital world of smaller sensors. :-D

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I shoot all sorts of cameras. I love my Olympus Pen-F and Fuji X-Pro1. The Sony A7 is nice - but not perfect, but it's where my adapted lenses mostly live.

I just try to grab the right tool for the job - sometimes it's DX, sometimes it's M43. I shot a ton of work on my Nikon D7000 and 35mm f/1.8 G lens - most of my favorite photos were taken with that setup. Though the AA filter was pretty strong and images were never quite as sharp as I would have liked, for what I was shooting at the time, it was perfect.

Sometimes I want to manual focus and shoot shallow apertures, which is when the A7 comes out, and for my enjoyment of shooting, that setup works well. A FF Zfc may work even better...

Given the popularity of the Zfc, I think it's inevitable we will see a full frame version. But I think it's going to be expensive. I would love an F3 version. A ZF3hp-T maybe based off the ZII hardware ?

philharris said:

I am keen to get a full-frame ZF, as long as I can get it in black. The black Zfc looks great.

I have a Df and love the sensor output, the original 16mp D4 sensor is one of the best made in my opinion, and creates lovely images.

As far as using old Nikkor Ai and pre-Ai manual focus lenses it is not bad, and I was quite happy with the results I was getting; until I got a Z7.

The mirrorless setup really does breathe new life into old lenses. The focusing aids available really make it very easy to get extremely good results. Between focus peaking and the ability to view focus at 100% on a button press, there are no excuses for not getting fantastic images from them.

As for the Zfc, I was very tempted when it came out and only the DX sensor put me off. I think it's nicely made, the controls feel good and, in all honesty, who really cares about the battery door? It opens and closes, that's pretty much all I require from it.

A black ZF, preferably about 36mp, with the manual focus abilities of the Z7 would prove irresistible to me.

Click to expand...

I had the same experience getting the Sony A7 - finally I can manual focus my vintage lenses. I think we have pretty much the same wish list for a FF Zfc. Though I'm not fussed much about megapixel count for this style of shooting - more events and less portraits where I want the extra megapixels to help with retouching and whatnot.

If one were announced with the Z8's innards I'd jump on it... Though it probably wouldn't be announced for a few years as it would take sales away from the Z8 and I suspect heat dissipation and battery life/size would be factors they have to play with in what may be a smaller body. (no grip etc.)

I'm not familiar enough with Nikon's Z mount camera lineup to say which innards I'd like, but anything above 16 megapixels and enough processing power for me to get in focus images with whatever lens I choose would be enough for me.

--
"no one should have a camera that can't play Candy Crush Saga."
Ye olde instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sodiumstudio/ (will probably still be around after April 10th)

madecov said:

Given the popularity of the Zfc, I think it's inevitable we will see a full frame version. But I think it's going to be expensive. I would love an F3 version. A ZF3hp-T maybe based off the ZII hardware ?

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I wouldn't mind expensive as long as it had the traditional Nikon build quality - a camera to last a lifetime, or at least a decade.

Nikon, Fuji and to some extent Olympus seem to believe in making cameras that are love letters to those of us who grew up in the film era, or at least want that style of shooting experience in digital.

Anything other than the "looks like a molded piece of plastic" generic look that cameras have nowadays. Sort of like how all cars basically look the same since aerodynamics informs much of their design.

I don't see many advances in form now that everyone's gone mirrorless. The exposure triangle isn't going to change much. It seems like all incremental improvements from here on out with the Z8 setting the standard.

One thing I'd like to see is a multi subject AF where the aperture is chosen to make sure everyone (of importance, say within a focusing box) is in focus, but with the widest aperture that makes sense. Maybe a camera maker has it but I haven't heard of it.

Or a skin tone based white balance/exposure designed to get skin tones looking good regardless of ethnicity or mixed lighting sources.

But like I said - these are all incremental improvements. More computational power to allow more sophisticated processing.

If you liked your D7000 and like your Sony, you should love a Zfc just like it is. It's kinda like a marriage of those two.

saltydogstudios said:

philharris said:

I am keen to get a full-frame ZF, as long as I can get it in black. The black Zfc looks great.

I have a Df and love the sensor output, the original 16mp D4 sensor is one of the best made in my opinion, and creates lovely images.

As far as using old Nikkor Ai and pre-Ai manual focus lenses it is not bad, and I was quite happy with the results I was getting; until I got a Z7.

The mirrorless setup really does breathe new life into old lenses. The focusing aids available really make it very easy to get extremely good results. Between focus peaking and the ability to view focus at 100% on a button press, there are no excuses for not getting fantastic images from them.

As for the Zfc, I was very tempted when it came out and only the DX sensor put me off. I think it's nicely made, the controls feel good and, in all honesty, who really cares about the battery door? It opens and closes, that's pretty much all I require from it.

A black ZF, preferably about 36mp, with the manual focus abilities of the Z7 would prove irresistible to me.

Click to expand...

I had the same experience getting the Sony A7 - finally I can manual focus my vintage lenses. I think we have pretty much the same wish list for a FF Zfc. Though I'm not fussed much about megapixel count for this style of shooting - more events and less portraits where I want the extra megapixels to help with retouching and whatnot.

If one were announced with the Z8's innards I'd jump on it... Though it probably wouldn't be announced for a few years as it would take sales away from the Z8 and I suspect heat dissipation and battery life/size would be factors they have to play with in what may be a smaller body. (no grip etc.)

I'm not familiar enough with Nikon's Z mount camera lineup to say which innards I'd like, but anything above 16 megapixels and enough processing power for me to get in focus images with whatever lens I choose would be enough for me.

Click to expand...

I doubt it would be possible to get a Z8 into that size body. Thermal issues would be very difficult to overcome if someone started shooting 8k60 with it.

I also think a stacked sensor would push the cost beyond what most people would be willing to pay.

The Z8 is an extraordinary camera, by far the best hybrid mirrorless available, and with a cost/performance ratio that cannot be matched.

I love my Z9, especially after FW4, but I just spent a few hours wandering about with the Z8 and the 100-400mm on it and loved the lighter weight and sensational Af.

For me, a ZF would not have to be a high performance camera, which would force design compromises that would detract from the delightful simplicity of the Zfc.

Nikon should really take advantage of the 'vintage' enthusiasm among younger as well as older people.

Look at the success of the Fujifilm X100V, the popularity of vinyl records, vintage style motorcycles etc.

A FF black Zf + Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO, now that would be something to behold

André

The Z fc is a reskinned Z50. A full frame retro body will also likely going to be a reskinned something, likely a Z5ii and priced like it, with a retro fun tax. These bodies are supposed to be the "fun" "casual" cameras, so the Z fc is a good starting point to expect what to get out of the full frame version.

The Z fc is not a reskinned Z50.

Bob A L said:

The Z fc is not a reskinned Z50.

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Baisically it is, same sensor. processor same EVF, same battery. Just a few firmware updates.

I would guess so, maybe by the holiday season. Given the wild popularity of the Z fc and the enduring popularity of the F-mount Df amongst Nikon devotees, I would expect this and the Z50 II as the two new Z bodies by Xmas. Just my opinion, nothing more.

I will get both. The Z fc and the Fujifilm X100V almost cured me of wanting to get a Df...almost. If a Zf comes out, I will pre-order on day one and have to wait months for it...and I am good with that. It will be THAT popular.

Bob A L said:

The Z fc is not a reskinned Z50.

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It pretty much is. I have both.

The only "guts" difference between the two is the articulating screen and the slightly better Wide Area AF on the Z fc/Z30. Many Z50 early adopters would love to see the next FW update for the Z50 to add this. Can't figure out why they haven't by now.

Bob A L said:

If you liked your D7000 and like your Sony, you should love a Zfc just like it is. It's kinda like a marriage of those two.

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Yeah, but the optimization is all wrong.

The D7000 I shot with a 50mm equivalent lens and shot mostly in portrait orientation. The grip really helped shooting portrait orientation over long hours.

I already have Fujifilm and M43 cameras if I wanted a crop sensor camera with a retro form factor.

I guess I split my shooting into two camps - portraits, where I want a nice grip and all the usual bells and whistles - fast autofocus, nice modern lenses etc.

And events / casual shooting, where I shoot more landscape orientation so a grip isn't as nice (though having it as an easy way to hold the camera when not shooting) is helpful. Here I don't mind manual focus, since selecting what to focus on is part of the fun and mirrorless is ideal for this since you don't need the focusing point to be central (as opposed to a rangefinder).

Full frame benefits both - shallower depth of field / more "character" to my vintage lenses. But even moreso the event style shooting, since the character of the lens is important to me in these cases.

saltydogstudios said:

The Nikon Z fc is, by all accounts plasticky. Plus, if I want to mount vintage lenses to something, I want it to be full frame to take advantage of the full character of the lens - not just the center where most lenses tend to perform best.

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Hopefully with a FF version, they would be more carefully with the final product. Don't half Blank it.