Z8 subject detection kill switch (RSF) with non-CPU lenses

[Nebido]

Can anyone here confirm that the option to cancel subject detection in manual focus with a Z8 only works with chipped MF lenses?
I played around with my Z8 and some vintage MF lenses today and it works without any problems with my chipped 35mm f/2 Apo Lanthar Z, where I can use the subject detection hotkey (Recall Shooting Function/RSF), which I have assigned as a subject detection kill switch, to subject detection off.

As soon as I use an MF lens with a dumb adapter, the hotkey/RSF doesn't work, and therefore I can't disable subject detection via hotkey/RSF.
Subject detection also works with dumb adapters and non-CPU lenses, but unfortunately the hotkey assigned to subject detection off does not.

Subject detection can also be disabled with non CPU lenses, but not via a hotkey using RSF, only via MyMenu or the menu in general.

It would be nice if someone who also uses non-CPU lenses could confirm this behavior.

It's not a big deal, since it also works with MyMenu, but I would just like to know if this is normal in connection with non-CPU lenses and the RSF function.

 

[atigun]

Can anyone here confirm that the option to cancel subject detection in manual focus with a Z8 only works with chipped MF lenses?
I played around with my Z8 and some vintage MF lenses today and it works without any problems with my chipped 35mm f/2 Apo Lanthar Z, where I can use the subject detection hotkey (Recall Shooting Function/RSF), which I have assigned as a subject detection kill switch, to subject detection off.

As soon as I use an MF lens with a dumb adapter, the hotkey/RSF doesn't work, and therefore I can't disable subject detection via hotkey/RSF.
Subject detection also works with dumb adapters and non-CPU lenses, but unfortunately the hotkey assigned to subject detection off does not.

Subject detection can also be disabled with non CPU lenses, but not via a hotkey using RSF, only via MyMenu or the menu in general.

It would be nice if someone who also uses non-CPU lenses could confirm this behavior.

It's not a big deal, since it also works with MyMenu, but I would just like to know if this is normal in connection with non-CPU lenses and the RSF function.

I do not use RSF but otherwise with the menu choices it seems to work the same whether a CPU lens is used with a dumb adapter, an FTZ II adapter or even a Z-lens in manual focus mode.

However what does not work for me in manual focus mode is the 3D tracking. If subject detection is on with 3D tracking, it goes directly into subject detection without allowing selection with the small white (as I have configured it) square. With AFC and 3D selected with an AF Z-lens in 3D mode the white square stays put until back button focus is activated, and then there is finally handoff to subject detection.

I thought I had this 3D tracking working in manual focus mode during initial testing in firmware version 3.00, but then only after the subject at the white square was in focus, but my memory might not be completely reliable regarding this, so it might not be a change to ver. 3.01

Edit: I tried to set it up with Fn2 activating RSV for AF/MF subject detection OFF and nothing else, and can confirm that while the tracking off override worked in MF mode with Z-lens and with a manual focus CPU lens on the FTZ II adapter, it did not work with a non-CPU lens on the FTZ II adapter or any lens on the the dumb adapter.

--
Atigun valley, a place north in Alaska

 

[michaeladawson]

Edit: I tried to set it up with Fn2 activating RSV for AF/MF subject detection OFF and nothing else, and can confirm that while the tracking off override worked in MF mode with Z-lens and with a manual focus CPU lens on the FTZ II adapter, it did not work with a non-CPU lens on the FTZ II adapter or any lens on the the dumb adapter.

I must say, that is just a bizarre behavior. Perhaps I'm being stupid here, but what does a lens have to do with subject detection? Or more to the point, why would electronics and firmware in the lens affect when subject detection happens at the sensor?

The only situation I can think of where the lens electronics could come into play would be due to the new function of min and max focus ranges. I could see where Nikon needs to know the distance setting on the lens when it comes to subject detection.

But that still doesn't sound like a rational decison on Nikon's part. If the user wants subject detection off, turn it off. Maybe it's just an oversight on their part.

 

[Nebido]

Edit: I tried to set it up with Fn2 activating RSV for AF/MF subject detection OFF and nothing else, and can confirm that while the tracking off override worked in MF mode with Z-lens and with a manual focus CPU lens on the FTZ II adapter, it did not work with a non-CPU lens on the FTZ II adapter or any lens on the the dumb adapter.

Thank you very much for your efforts.

It's always good to have confirmation from another source so you don't have to look for the error in yourself or your individual settings.

As I said, it's also reasonably quick using workarounds such as a hotkey/Fn button with "My Menu", or even better "My Menu first entry", but it would be very advantageous in certain situations, especially with lenses such as my Canon FD 85/1.2 L.

I find it difficult to understand why Subject Detection Off via Recall Shooting Function works fine in MF with a chipped lens but not with a non-CPU lens, but then again, I don't have the technical background.

 

[chambeshi]

This is a pure guess. My hypothesis is the feasibility/ capability of the 100% zoom feature possibly requires additional information on the optical attributes of the particular lens, including distance data to enable the software to detect and zoom in on subjects

For general interest

John Peltier video

Hudson Henry video with Zf

Nikon's MF support feature is definitely making waves and attracting a widening fan base

https://jackwang.com.au/blog/nikonzf-steal

 

[Nebido]

Zooming in also works with a non-CPU lens in manual focus mode when subject tracking is activated in MF.

As with a chipped MF lens, you have three MF subject detection areas to choose from: All (tracking the entire image field), Wide S, and Wide L.

Once subject detection is active and has tracked something, the zoom takes you directly there, no different from a chipped lens.

The zoom modes also all work with non-CPU lenses, 100%, 200%, and now also 400%.

So even with a non-CPU lens via a dumb adapter, there are no differences or restrictions compared to a chipped MF lens such as the Voigtlander Apo Lanthar Z.

What does not work with a non-CPU lens is focus confirmation, i.e., the frame of the focus box turns green to confirm focus, where a dependency on data communication is understandable.

In addition, the recall shooting function in combination with subject detection off does not work with a non-CPU lens, which I cannot easily understand, since everything else is supported even with non-CPU lenses, i.e., tracking and direct zooming on the tracked object/subject/eye/face, etc.

It's also not the case that the recall shooting function doesn't work with non-CPU lenses at all; there are no problems when spot metering is assigned.

MF subject detection can also be disabled on a non-CPU lens.
However, this cannot be done "on the fly", as is possible with "RSF/RSFH . Subject Detection Off" and chipped lenses, but only via the menu or My Menu / My Menu first entry.

Unlike with my Apo Lanthar Z, where pressing the RSF/RSFH hotkey instantly deactivates subject detection and pressing it a second time instantly reactivates it, nothing happens with the same hotkey/assignment on a non-CPU lens.

You have to go through the menu or use a hotkey with My menu last entry to deactivate MF subject detection.

________

Edit:

I have to correct myself.

I must have remembered it wrong, but the Recall Shooting/Hold function doesn't seem to work at all with a non-CPU / dump adapter lens.

That's a clear indication that communication with the lens is necessary for the Z8's RSF/RSFH to work.

So it doesn't work with spot metering either and also not with the other functions that can normally be assigned with RSF/RSFH.

 

[atigun]

Edit:

I have to correct myself.

I must have remembered it wrong, but the Recall Shooting/Hold function doesn't seem to work at all with a non-CPU / dump adapter lens.

That's a clear indication that communication with the lens is necessary for the Z8's RSF/RSFH to work.

So it doesn't work with spot metering either and also not with the other functions that can normally be assigned with RSF/RSFH.

Yes, so it looks like you answered the question as to why the RSF does not work with non-cpu lenses - not because it is incompatible specifically with the manual focus subject tracking, but because it might be incompatible with some other function that can be assigned to RSF.

it was a different question but any clue (or confirmation) as to why the 3D tracking does not work with manual focus, in spite of being assignable? I am just getting a red square with a dot in it, not the white square that will keep locked on the selected area when reframed, once AF back button is activated.