Almost the best FF camera Sony could make

ProfHankD said:

Jeff_0000 said:

Hi there,I am considering switching to Sony A7R5, but I would like to clarify some things before I make the move. Much appreciated if any owners of A7R5 can answer my questions below:

1. Does Sony A7R5 have "Bright Monitoring" for Astrophotography?

Click to expand...

Yes. Not something I've used, but it's there .

ProfHankD said:

2. Are you able to see the details of the stars and colors on your LCD, with and without "Bright Monitoring" turned on, like the video below?

Click to expand...

Haven't tried that and it's daytime now... ;-)

Click to expand...

Cool, thanks.

ProfHankD said:

ProfHankD said:

3. When using intervalometer, does the lens aperture move or does it stay constant no matter what aperture is selected? On my Nikon Z6, I have to set it at f5.6 to avoid that.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you're asking. It does allow use of aperture priority mode, but are you asking if it opens the lens back up between shots? I know it disables auto review between shots when interval shooting, so I'd guess it doesn't change the aperture between shots, but I don't really know. In truth, any intervalometer shooting I'd do would be with one of my many unchipped manual lenses...

Click to expand...

You get it right... because I think it helps avoid the aperture flicker caused by the lens itself. On Nikon, I have to shoot at f5.6 or above the avoid that issue. I wonder if there is no such requirement on a Sony camera.

I know some people would use the manual lenses or perform the "disconnect" hack but (1) I prefer using best quality modern AF zoom lenses (not sure if any there are any manual zoom lenses that are as good as the modern ones) and (2) there is a risk for performing the "disconnect" hack.

ProfHankD said:

TN Args said:

Your numbers say 4.5 stars but your words and emotion say 2 stars on balance. The mismatch is noticable.

Click to expand...

No, it's not a 2/5 in any respect! The A7RV camera by itself or in comparison to the latest competitors from Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, and Leica is an easy 5/5. The catch is, the A7RII rated against those same cameras would still be at least a 4/5, and a 5/5 at the price it was selling for in the last couple of years it was still being made.

My rather strong dismay is that, as much as the A7RV is way better than the A7RII, it is actually worse in several respects that actually matter to me, and that's something that should not be happening. I'm giving Sony a 0.5/5 penalty for going out of their way to continue to mess-up a few things the A7RII did right. BTW, they really messed-up those things on every model after the A7RII while continuing to bump prices, and for that reason I wouldn't rate the A7RIII or A7RIV above 4/5. In fact, the A1 and A7IV are the only others I'd put in the 4.5/5 range.

I happen to have a significant investment in Sony A and E/FE mount, both in lenses and literally dozens of adapters (including 3D-printed ones I designed for lots of manual lenses in various mounts), so I have a reason to stick with Sony. I'm also one of the very few who have a minor preference for Sonys ergonomically -- my main camera when I did commercial photography professionally years ago was a Minolta XK, and Sonys still remind me of that. If I had no reason to prefer Sony E/FE bodies, I would be very tempted to go with a Nikon Z8, which I think is a 5/5, and the Z mount actually would be helpful in avoiding vignetting I get with FE when adapting some large-format lenses. As for the top-of-the-line Canon and Panasonic models, the sad truth is I wouldn't trade my A7RII for either of them... well, I suppose I would trade, and then sell the Canon/Panasonic to buy a used A7RII and a new Z7II. ;-)

Click to expand...

I was all set to get a Z8 as an upgrade path from my current Z6. The specs and capabilities of that camera really makes it an all-rounder camera that I have been dreaming of getting since 2020 when Canon released the R5. When Nikon release the Z8, initially I was excited and hoped to get one. But before making the move, I decided to visit the local store and tried to see if there are any quirks on the camera.

Despite many great things about that camera, I have discovered a major quirk which I may be persuaded to consider the A7R5 instead. That is, the lack of real-time live view display during interval shooting on the LCD screen. The Z8's interval shooting is not really helpful - the camera can only display each individual image only after it has been taken. If I want to check the live view, I have to manually press the shutter button to awake the camera, and before the camera begins to shoot, the screen will go black for seconds. However, after the next shot, the camera will not show the live view to me automatically (which means I have to manually awake the camera if I want to check the live view again). This is not very reassuring as I would like to make sure the image which the camera is going to be taken is properly exposed or . The original firmware of my Z6 still allows the camera to display the real-time info. for 2 seconds automatically, but surprisingly the newer firmware on the Z6ii, Z7ii, Z8 and Z9 removes this feature.

When I try the A7R5 interval shooting, however, I find that the LCD will automatically display the actual scene, exposure settings and nos. of shots taken in the sequence as the camera continues to take the images, without any delays or lags. As someone who love landscape photography, I find that having this feature is extremely useful. I really think Nikon totally misses on this. This is the trigger point if I want to switch to Sony. Another lack feature that not many people notice is the lack of bulb timer on Z8. I am surprised to see the A7R5 has the bulb timer. IMO, this is more precise and refined than Z8's 900 seconds mode.

Z8 is a great camera, but Nikon's lack of care on landscape photographers makes me want to try other cameras instead. Sony's A7R5 has caught my eyes.

P.S. I do acknowledge A1 users are still angry about why all of the newer features on A7R5 are missing on the flagship.

ProfHankD said:

One last note: I am a professor doing computational photography research, and I do a lot of open source development. If Sony hadn't discontinued PlayMemories, I would be doing all sorts of things using OpenMemories and releasing those apps for free. Instead, I've been forced to use Canons with CHDK and ML, which is a grossly inferior infrastructure. Sony making a nice, protected, app environment for PlayMemories and then failing to open it to 3rd-party developers and dropping it when it got hacked so 3rd-party development was possible is like cell phones banning 3rd-party apps: it makes no sense whatsoever and is a truly self-destructive move. Sony really should bring back the PlayMemories app environment, tweak the UI for it so it plays nicer with the camera menus, and open a 3rd-party app certification process and store. The first camera maker to do something like that will completely dominate the camera market within a few years.

Click to expand...

Jeff_0000 said:

ProfHankD said:

Jeff_0000 said:

3. When using intervalometer, does the lens aperture move or does it stay constant no matter what aperture is selected? On my Nikon Z6, I have to set it at f5.6 to avoid that.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you're asking. It does allow use of aperture priority mode, but are you asking if it opens the lens back up between shots? I know it disables auto review between shots when interval shooting, so I'd guess it doesn't change the aperture between shots, but I don't really know. In truth, any intervalometer shooting I'd do would be with one of my many unchipped manual lenses...

Click to expand...

You get it right... because I think it helps avoid the aperture flicker caused by the lens itself. On Nikon, I have to shoot at f5.6 or above the avoid that issue. I wonder if there is no such requirement on a Sony camera.

Click to expand...

Just tried it: the aperture stayed put at f/22 when I set it to that, with not a hint of motion from the blades of my Tamron 150-500mm. Same with a Sony FE 50mm f/1.8 shot at f/4.

Jeff_0000 said:

I know some people would use the manual lenses or perform the "disconnect" hack but (1) I prefer using best quality modern AF zoom lenses (not sure if any there are any manual zoom lenses that are as good as the modern ones) and (2) there is a risk for performing the "disconnect" hack.

Click to expand...

I don't think the "best quality" modern AF zoom lenses are any better optically than a lot of much cheaper manual primes, but I suppose that if you've got the budget...

I prefer manual lenses for most stuff, but for time-lapse shooting in particular:

• Manual lenses have tighter tolerances on lens element mountings for focus and zoom because they don't need to minimize strain on drive motors. Most autofocus lenses, especially cheap ones, tend to have a bit of wobble that could be triggered by a breeze, etc.
• Drive motors on focus and zoom can have tiny movements due to electrical noise; it's usually negligible, but depends on the type of motors and control system being used within the lens.
• Zoom, focus, and aperture are controlled by single points on the lens, and thus can be mechanically locked into place, e.g., using a piece of blue painter's tape. You can even find some manual lenses with lock screws to ensure they can't slip even when mounted for months or years on equipment that may be vibrating, although that's most common in machine-vision lenses.

In sum, it really depends on how critical things are and how nasty the environment is. For example, for surveillance/machine vision stuff, I always use manual lenses to keep things in perfect alignment forever. I'd also do that for stop-motion animation.

Nebell said:

A1 is a much better camera.
And lack of CFExpress Type B is another reason. They are much cheaper than Type A.
A7r V is a 4.5 camera, A1 is a 4.8 camera.

Click to expand...

Both use the same cards.

ahaslett said:

scrane said:

I think the a7rv is just dandy!

Click to expand...

If I could have only one camera, it would be the A7Rv.

Andrew

Click to expand...

I have only one camera and it is the A7R V. I can see the A1 being just as good if used for a different purpose.

Nebell said:

ProfHankD said:

Nebell said:

A1 is a much better camera.
And lack of CFExpress Type B is another reason. They are much cheaper than Type A.
A7r V is a 4.5 camera, A1 is a 4.8 camera.

Click to expand...

I hear you, but I give more points for the tilt/pivot LCD and $2K is a lot more to pay for a camera that isn't quite as nice but has a faster-readout, slightly-lower-resolution, sensor. That's why I found the A7RV more compelling than the A1.

If I shot more sports or video, I agree that the A1 is a better camera. The A7RV is a little better for the types of photography I do.

Click to expand...

I would gladly sacrifice 10mpix for a stacked sensor.

And even if that's not important, the lack of CFExpress Type B is baffling. Type A is stupidly overpriced compared to Type B.

I love Sony and my A7r IV took amazing photos, but A7r V is not a 5/5 camera. If resolution is the most important aspect, there are higher resolution cameras out there. If speed is important there are better cameras out there. If everything is important... A1.

Click to expand...

Not baffling.

Type A is narrower than SD, but thicker. That lets Sony make a slot that can take either, so you can use 2 SD, 2 CFeA, or one of each. Type B is both wider and thicker than SD, so you cannot make a slot which will take both. You either build the camera to take two CFeB (if there is enough room for them), or you take one of each, which is a major pain when you want to write backup to a second card. I have used several cameras with two different slots - it’s limiting, and annoying. I like the dual media slots.

Price of CFeA is coming down with third party cards appearing - I can even get the Sony cards for substantially less now. CFeB was expensive at first, too. Normal for any new format.

ProfHankD said:

After being very happy with Sony A7RII bodies as my high-end cameras for some years now, the A7RV finally checked enough additional boxes to make upgrading worthwhile. Overall, the A7RV is a serious contender for best FF camera built thus far by anyone. So, why am I giving it just 4.5 stars?

Let's start with the good stuff in comparison to the still-great A7RII:

• This camera handles way better than the A7RII in almost every way; the tilt/flip-out rear LCD, the improved EVF, the much-reduced mechanical shutter sound (and presumably less vibration), stunningly great AF, improved IBIS, a better menu structure, dual card slots, etc. -- the AF in particular is almost magically good even with Tamron lenses like my 28-200mm and 150-500mm
• It can shoot 8K video and does 4K better than the A7RII
• In addition to various raw formats, it can make HEIF (.HIF) image files that compress better than JPEGs while maintaining more detail (except as noted below)
• The sensor is 60MP and pixel shift can deliver up to 240MP using a decent tripod, electronic shutter mode, and a computer to merge the pixel-shifted captures
• The camera can be used as a UVC USB webcam!!! This isn't what you'd buy an A7RV for, but in these post-pandemic days, it's really inexcusable that any camera with a USB interface doesn't allow driverless use with Zoom (and most competitors don't).

It's really hard not to like and respect the A7RV. It feels and behaves like a flagship camera while being very convenient to use -- even significantly more convenient and comfortable to use than Sony's actual flagship, which is officially the A1. It behaves like a 5/5-star camera -- but I'm not giving it 5/5.

Let me rain on the parade a bit by continuing the comparison to the lowly old A7RII:

• The last A7RII I purchased new cost just $1200 -- this camera is 3X the price!
• The A7RV is noticeably larger and heavier than the A7RII
• Aside from 60MP vs 42MP and a couple of awkward pixel-shift modes, the image quality is darn similar to the A7RII -- and rolling shutter isn't reduced, because electronic shutter here isn't faster like it is on competing Nikon and even Canon models (yes, in readout speed, Sony's non-stacked BSI sensor is actually inferior to Canon's latest FSI sensors!)
• The .HIF files are not recognized by most software that handles images, including some that supposedly understand HEIF files; beyond that, the larger dynamic range encoded doesn't use enough bits to retain shadow detail, and Sony's DRO which manages to keep such details in JPEGs barely does anything with .HIF files until around the Lv4 setting -- it seems that Sony didn't appropriately tweak the DRO algorithm for the new HEIF file format, and thus DRO Auto JPEGs retain more shadow detail than HEIF files do!
• The A7RV firmware is actually missing a lot of capabilities the A7RII firmware had, most notably PlayMemories app support and apps (except they did finally bring back the intervalometer app functionality), and it is also missing things like the excellent in-camera panorama modes that were in earlier models

That last point is a real killer. One would expect newer models to add features, not remove them, but not only is the app support gone, but the most useful features provided by apps are still missing. I shoot mostly manual lenses, and there was a lens compensation app that allowed me to set the name, focal length, vignetting and distortion corrections for unchipped manual lenses, with corrections applied in-camera and the info included in EXIF; with the A7RV, all I can do is manually set a focal length for IBIS to assume, but the camera doesn't even record that focal length in the image EXIF! OK, without the app, that's the best the A7RII could do -- but it also had the app support to fix that problem. It is mind-bogglingly stupid that when the A7III and later models dropped the app support Sony didn't simply build-in the functionality of all the apps; they obviously had code for those functions, so what did omitting it save Sony?

In summary, Sony seems to have improved a lot from generation to generation in the A7 family, but there are still quite a few things that are more awkward than they should be. The A7RV with a faster electronic shutter readout (and perhaps even dropping the mechanical shutter) and supporting the various firmware/app features that Sony used to have would be a nearly perfect camera. I appreciate that sensor cost might have kept fast readout out of reach, except it didn't blow the cost for the Nikon Z8, and I see no financial benefit to Sony's decisions to continue to omit other firmware features they had in earlier models. Thus, I have to give the A7RV a 4.5/5 because there's important stuff it easily could have done that Sony simply didn't do. I hope, but don't expect, that a firmware update will bring back the missing features, at which time, even without the fast electronic readout, I'd give this a 5/5...

Click to expand...

I own the A7R2, A7R3, A7R4q, A9 and A1. Each is improved compared to the prior BUT I agree completely with your comments regarding the A7RII. Despite being the oldest of my cameras, the image quality is pretty close to the newer bodies, The issues are slowness of operation, limited buffer, frame rate.and battery life. However these days it is cheap and I do like various Play Memories Apps. I too was very disappointed that Sony dropped them from their newer bodies. On overseas trips, if I take my Sony FF system (I now bring my MFT OM1 in many cases), I will bring an A7RII as back up to my A1 rather than one of the other newer bodies,

Olympus has all kinds of neat computational features in the EM1.3 and OM1. Pity Sony didn't continue to develop their Playmemories Apps. My guess is they were dropped because of concerns about power consumption and because their image files kept getting bigger.

Great review but as a birder (strictly) I find these limitations on the A7RV hard to live with:

• only 10fps
• pronounced rolling shutter
• body ergonomics (as all A7 bodies)

Hopefully the next A1 series can take advantage of all the A7RV goodies and add stacked sensor

A new larger body with better ergo is highly desirable imho

Cheers,

Zeiss4me said:

I own the A7R2, A7R3, A7R4q, A9 and A1. Each is improved compared to the prior BUT I agree completely with your comments regarding the A7RII. Despite being the oldest of my cameras, the image quality is pretty close to the newer bodies, The issues are slowness of operation, limited buffer, frame rate.and battery life. However these days it is cheap and I do like various Play Memories Apps. I too was very disappointed that Sony dropped them from their newer bodies. On overseas trips, if I take my Sony FF system (I now bring my MFT OM1 in many cases), I will bring an A7RII as back up to my A1 rather than one of the other newer bodies,

Click to expand...

Sounds like we're in pretty strong agreement about the A7RII having been a real "sweet spot" in the evolution of Sony cameras...

Zeiss4me said:

Olympus has all kinds of neat computational features in the EM1.3 and OM1. Pity Sony didn't continue to develop their Playmemories Apps. My guess is they were dropped because of concerns about power consumption and because their image files kept getting bigger.

Click to expand...

I don't know for sure, but my understanding is that PlayMemories basically started as an attempt to make a modern implementation of Minolta's old personality cards. As is normal for Sony, their engineers did a really great job of implementing it, building an entire protected app environment (the cameras run Linux, and PlayMemories is essentially a secure Android app environment under that with lots of hooks to camera functions) just to support relatively few Sony-written apps. The thing that killed it was apparently the existence of OpenMemories. Sony took great pains to use security features to keep hackers out, and OpenMemories was seen as hackers breaking in, rather than what it really was -- which was the start of benevolent 3rd-party developers making apps to enhance camera functions (at that point, all for free). The smart response from Sony would have been to institute a 3rd-party app certification process and app store, but they instead immediately removed PlayMemories as though it was some type of security vulnerability...

Sony actually has done this type of paranoid and self-destructive move before, notably when PlayStations got hacked to be used for cluster supercomputing. One would have thought they'd be happy to sell additional units for that unintended application...

There have been a few other manufacturer attempts to provide camera app environments, but PlayMemories was the closest to having the right kind of infrastructure. The first attempt to support camera apps was DigitaOS , back in 1998. Unfortunately, although it supported 3rd-party apps on various digital cameras from Kodak, Minolta, HP, and Pentax, it was not really set-up to do low-level camera control as much as it was about running other code within the camera. People were impressed to see things like Doom running on a DC260, but this predates the concept of 3rd-party apps in cell phones by almost a decade, and people didn't appreciate what camera apps really could do... so Digita was abandoned after just a few years. Basically, before really useful apps got developed.

In practice, the richest camera app environments run on Canon cameras -- not because Canon supports that, because they don't in any way, but because Canon uses a crude DOS environment that has no protection features to keep hackers out. The first was CHDK , which started as a hack to enable raw capture around 2006 and quickly grew to be a complete app environment supporting scripting in BASIC and then also in Lua. It supports about 160 different Canon models, mostly PowerShots, but it isn't tightly integrated with Canon's menus, etc., so many features look a little kludgey. The other app environment for Canons is Magic Lantern (ML), which started as a fork of CHDK primarily adding video features to EOS models. ML is much more tightly integrated with the Canon menu system, but runs on far fewer cameras because it takes more porting effort and there seem to be fewer developers; in fact, no current-production models are supported by ML at this time. Primary ML scripting support is also Lua. Canon quietly tolerates both the CHDK and ML development efforts; more than a few firmware features in Canons first showed up in CHDK or ML, so perhaps Canon has realized that these are a free source of enhancements that can help them sell cameras.

So, there you have it. 3rd-party camera app support came before it did for cell phones, and that was too early, but counting that as a failure has for two decades discouraged digital camera makers from investing in what I'm sure would be the biggest market expander... and Sony actively ran away from it when they just happened to build the right infrastructure for a different reason. Here we are in the middle of an IoT revolution and the only thing camera makers have done in that direction is to enhance their tethering support. Giving credit where it is due, Sony has made a very nice open tethering interface since dropping PlayMemories (of course that misses the point that cameras are UI devices and often used stand-alone). Sigh.

dv312 said:

Great review but as a birder (strictly) I find these limitations on the A7RV hard to live with:

Click to expand...

Clearly a fast electronic readout is ideal for that and the A7RV doesn't do that.

Despite that, I'm NOT a birder, but I actually found the A7RV enabled me to easily shoot BIF using my Tamron 150-500mm, especially using the bird AF. I could do it with that lens on my older Sonys, but it was a struggle even with that same Tamron lens. The few times I've tried with old manual lenses (e.g., my Topcor 500mm) have been a bit of a nightmare for BIF.

dv312 said:

• only 10fps

Click to expand...

Yeah, 10FPS max. It's actually even a tad slower than that with electronic shutter, even in APS-C crop mode (which is silly, because electronic could be faster if it only has to read out the APS-C crop). 10FPS still seems very fast to me and the camera is very responsive, so what little BIF shooting I've done was typically in single-shot mode.

There are also 4K and 8K video modes if you need a higher rate to grab a frame from.

dv312 said:

• pronounced rolling shutter

Click to expand...

Yup, and that would be the argument against the 4K and 8K video modes as fast still sequences, although 4K 60P might be OK. That said, the mechanical shutter is a lot gentler than on the A7RII.

dv312 said:

• body ergonomics (as all A7 bodies)

Hopefully the next A1 series can take advantage of all the A7RV goodies and add stacked sensor

A new larger body with better ergo is highly desirable imho

Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with that. The A7RV feels great to me, and I'd prefer smaller even when shooting handheld with that big Tamron. In fact, I like how that Tamron handles on my old A6500, although the A7RV APS-C crop is better than I get from the A6500 and AF is much better on the A7RV.

dv312 said:

Cheers,

Click to expand...

To you also.

AlephNull said:

Nebell said:

ProfHankD said:

Nebell said:

A1 is a much better camera.
And lack of CFExpress Type B is another reason. They are much cheaper than Type A.
A7r V is a 4.5 camera, A1 is a 4.8 camera.

Click to expand...

I hear you, but I give more points for the tilt/pivot LCD and $2K is a lot more to pay for a camera that isn't quite as nice but has a faster-readout, slightly-lower-resolution, sensor. That's why I found the A7RV more compelling than the A1.

If I shot more sports or video, I agree that the A1 is a better camera. The A7RV is a little better for the types of photography I do.

Click to expand...

I would gladly sacrifice 10mpix for a stacked sensor.

And even if that's not important, the lack of CFExpress Type B is baffling. Type A is stupidly overpriced compared to Type B.

I love Sony and my A7r IV took amazing photos, but A7r V is not a 5/5 camera. If resolution is the most important aspect, there are higher resolution cameras out there. If speed is important there are better cameras out there. If everything is important... A1.

Click to expand...

Not baffling.

Type A is narrower than SD, but thicker. That lets Sony make a slot that can take either, so you can use 2 SD, 2 CFeA, or one of each. Type B is both wider and thicker than SD, so you cannot make a slot which will take both. You either build the camera to take two CFeB (if there is enough room for them), or you take one of each, which is a major pain when you want to write backup to a second card. I have used several cameras with two different slots - it’s limiting, and annoying. I like the dual media slots.

Price of CFeA is coming down with third party cards appearing - I can even get the Sony cards for substantially less now. CFeB was expensive at first, too. Normal for any new format.

Click to expand...

Type A is 4 times as expensive as Type B.

512gb Type B is €250.
512gb Type A is beyond €1000.

€1500 or €3000 if you want backup just for cards, yeah you can forget sports or wildlife shooting with those prices. It's why I chose Fuji H2s. Inferior camera compared to Sony, but I can just shoot and shoot and shoot with a very fast card that costs €250.

LarryRC said:

Nebell said:

A1 is a much better camera.
And lack of CFExpress Type B is another reason. They are much cheaper than Type A.
A7r V is a 4.5 camera, A1 is a 4.8 camera.

Click to expand...

Both use the same cards.

Click to expand...

That's why A1 is a 4.8 camera and not 5/5.

The 1 TB Angelbird Type A is currently $499. Type A prices are gradually coming down.

Brian Smith said:

The 1 TB Angelbird Type A is currently $499. Type A prices are gradually coming down.

Click to expand...

How much does a 1TB Type A cost?

While I won't attest to being a dedicated birder, I do shoot my share of wildlife. Some moving (not running) and with birds I love shooting them perched be it eagles, pelicans, ducks and more. I have even shot geese taking off and the shear speed and accuracy of the focus system on the A7RV nails them dead on every time. I don't shoot multi frame shooting so the lack of 20fps+ is of NO use to ME.

To each their own as they say. But the accuracy and speed of the focus system on the A7RV earns it's keep to say the least. One reason I didn't bother with the overpriced A1. I'll be playing with a Nikon Z8 in a few weeks along with their 24-120 and 100-400 just to see what that's all about. But I'm not so sure I'd want to give up the flexibility of the smaller body. I have a nice Neewer grip when desired but it's rarely used. The resolution is a treat to say the least. So far I've never seen any rolling shutter, eve shooting a high speed gull flying or anything else I've shot. I mix it up with the ES and MS. With 500,000 shutter life I doubt I'll have the camera long enough to even see that. I never have before with any other body. Hyperbole is the term of the day when it comes to peoples comments about the weaknesses of the A7RV. If they don't have a shooting style that is what the camera was designed for, they should just move along. Not try to criticize it.

I have and use both the A1 and the A7R V. I use the A1 primarily for shooting wildlife and action, and I use the A7R V for macros, closeups and tabletop photography, with maybe other things thrown in from time to time as well. For me the two camera bodies complement each other and of course when I want, I obviously can use any of my lenses on either of them.

Especially in the A1 I appreciate the ability to have two CFE Type A cards in there, so that when I'm shooting a scene in which there is a lot of action going on and I'm firing away at 20 or 30 fps, when the first card is filled up it automatically flows right on over to the second card without any hitches or glitches whatsoever. Just makes life a lot simpler both in the shooting process and in the later reviewing/culling/editing process.

Sure, in the initial purchase process the CFE Type A cards may cost more, but to me they are well worth it. No jinking around with two different types of cards or different sizes....

ProDude has it right on the mark. The a7rv with a stacked sensor would be Sony's best camera, and probably the best mirrorless out there. But it doesn't have one. However, it does have 60MP and a host of other modern features. I shoot birds and there are times that I wish I had the a1's speed. OTOH, when I was shooting landscapes out West in April, I appreciated every single MP and many of the other features unique to the a7rv. FWIW, I've gotten some great wildlife shots with the a7rv, and the greater challenge posed by the slower shooting speed is part of the fun.

In the end, both cameras are tools with overlapping functionalities. People should just accept that fact and stop arguing about which is "better," even thought that's what we do at the not-ready-to-die DPR.

Steve

The apps are gone. It's a pity. Sony was really ahead of the competition in this one. (Can anyone image cell phone without apps from an app store anymore?)


My understanding is, that this was a coding problem, that Sony had made a firmware change that was incompatible with the apps, but I don't know first-hand, just something I read.

The other possibility is that Sony was pi**ed off by some unauthorized apps (which added full language support, removed the arbitrary 25min. limit fo videos and also disabled the annoying PAL/NTSC warning screen).

Wish Sony would have ported some of these app features to their newer cameras. Still A7r5 probably the most compelling "all-round" camera in the entire Sony line.

Jeff_0000 said:

ProfHankD said:

TN Args said:

Your numbers say 4.5 stars but your words and emotion say 2 stars on balance. The mismatch is noticable.

Click to expand...

No, it's not a 2/5 in any respect! The A7RV camera by itself or in comparison to the latest competitors from Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, and Leica is an easy 5/5. The catch is, the A7RII rated against those same cameras would still be at least a 4/5, and a 5/5 at the price it was selling for in the last couple of years it was still being made.

My rather strong dismay is that, as much as the A7RV is way better than the A7RII, it is actually worse in several respects that actually matter to me, and that's something that should not be happening. I'm giving Sony a 0.5/5 penalty for going out of their way to continue to mess-up a few things the A7RII did right. BTW, they really messed-up those things on every model after the A7RII while continuing to bump prices, and for that reason I wouldn't rate the A7RIII or A7RIV above 4/5. In fact, the A1 and A7IV are the only others I'd put in the 4.5/5 range.

I happen to have a significant investment in Sony A and E/FE mount, both in lenses and literally dozens of adapters (including 3D-printed ones I designed for lots of manual lenses in various mounts), so I have a reason to stick with Sony. I'm also one of the very few who have a minor preference for Sonys ergonomically -- my main camera when I did commercial photography professionally years ago was a Minolta XK, and Sonys still remind me of that. If I had no reason to prefer Sony E/FE bodies, I would be very tempted to go with a Nikon Z8, which I think is a 5/5, and the Z mount actually would be helpful in avoiding vignetting I get with FE when adapting some large-format lenses. As for the top-of-the-line Canon and Panasonic models, the sad truth is I wouldn't trade my A7RII for either of them... well, I suppose I would trade, and then sell the Canon/Panasonic to buy a used A7RII and a new Z7II. ;-)

Click to expand...

I was all set to get a Z8 as an upgrade path from my current Z6. The specs and capabilities of that camera really makes it an all-rounder camera that I have been dreaming of getting since 2020 when Canon released the R5. When Nikon release the Z8, initially I was excited and hoped to get one. But before making the move, I decided to visit the local store and tried to see if there are any quirks on the camera.

Despite many great things about that camera, I have discovered a major quirk which I may be persuaded to consider the A7R5 instead. That is, the lack of real-time live view display during interval shooting on the LCD screen. The Z8's interval shooting is not really helpful - the camera can only display each individual image only after it has been taken. If I want to check the live view, I have to manually press the shutter button to awake the camera, and before the camera begins to shoot, the screen will go black for seconds. However, after the next shot, the camera will not show the live view to me automatically (which means I have to manually awake the camera if I want to check the live view again). This is not very reassuring as I would like to make sure the image which the camera is going to be taken is properly exposed or . The original firmware of my Z6 still allows the camera to display the real-time info. for 2 seconds automatically, but surprisingly the newer firmware on the Z6ii, Z7ii, Z8 and Z9 removes this feature.

When I try the A7R5 interval shooting, however, I find that the LCD will automatically display the actual scene, exposure settings and nos. of shots taken in the sequence as the camera continues to take the images, without any delays or lags. As someone who love landscape photography, I find that having this feature is extremely useful. I really think Nikon totally misses on this. This is the trigger point if I want to switch to Sony. Another lack feature that not many people notice is the lack of bulb timer on Z8. I am surprised to see the A7R5 has the bulb timer. IMO, this is more precise and refined than Z8's 900 seconds mode.

Z8 is a great camera, but Nikon's lack of care on landscape photographers makes me want to try other cameras instead. Sony's A7R5 has caught my eyes.

P.S. I do acknowledge A1 users are still angry about why all of the newer features on A7R5 are missing on the flagship.

Click to expand...

This picture sums up the current gripe that I have with Nikon Z camera's time lapse mode

I tested the A7R5, and it doesn't have the aperture flicker and black screen issues on time lapse mode like Nikon. The on-top display is not necessary when I can see the info. on the LCD screen of A7R5.

I don't think Nikon will address these problems on the Z8 or Z9 as they affect landscape photographers only.

Jeff_0000 said:

Jeff_0000 said:

One last note: I am a professor doing computational photography research, and I do a lot of open source development. If Sony hadn't discontinued PlayMemories, I would be doing all sorts of things using OpenMemories and releasing those apps for free. Instead, I've been forced to use Canons with CHDK and ML, which is a grossly inferior infrastructure. Sony making a nice, protected, app environment for PlayMemories and then failing to open it to 3rd-party developers and dropping it when it got hacked so 3rd-party development was possible is like cell phones banning 3rd-party apps: it makes no sense whatsoever and is a truly self-destructive move. Sony really should bring back the PlayMemories app environment, tweak the UI for it so it plays nicer with the camera menus, and open a 3rd-party app certification process and store. The first camera maker to do something like that will completely dominate the camera market within a few years.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Nebell said:

AlephNull said:

Nebell said:

ProfHankD said:

Nebell said:

A1 is a much better camera.
And lack of CFExpress Type B is another reason. They are much cheaper than Type A.
A7r V is a 4.5 camera, A1 is a 4.8 camera.

Click to expand...

I hear you, but I give more points for the tilt/pivot LCD and $2K is a lot more to pay for a camera that isn't quite as nice but has a faster-readout, slightly-lower-resolution, sensor. That's why I found the A7RV more compelling than the A1.

If I shot more sports or video, I agree that the A1 is a better camera. The A7RV is a little better for the types of photography I do.

Click to expand...

I would gladly sacrifice 10mpix for a stacked sensor.

And even if that's not important, the lack of CFExpress Type B is baffling. Type A is stupidly overpriced compared to Type B.

I love Sony and my A7r IV took amazing photos, but A7r V is not a 5/5 camera. If resolution is the most important aspect, there are higher resolution cameras out there. If speed is important there are better cameras out there. If everything is important... A1.

Click to expand...

Not baffling.

Type A is narrower than SD, but thicker. That lets Sony make a slot that can take either, so you can use 2 SD, 2 CFeA, or one of each. Type B is both wider and thicker than SD, so you cannot make a slot which will take both. You either build the camera to take two CFeB (if there is enough room for them), or you take one of each, which is a major pain when you want to write backup to a second card. I have used several cameras with two different slots - it’s limiting, and annoying. I like the dual media slots.

Price of CFeA is coming down with third party cards appearing - I can even get the Sony cards for substantially less now. CFeB was expensive at first, too. Normal for any new format.

Click to expand...

Type A is 4 times as expensive as Type B.

512gb Type B is €250.
512gb Type A is beyond €1000.

€1500 or €3000 if you want backup just for cards, yeah you can forget sports or wildlife shooting with those prices. It's why I chose Fuji H2s. Inferior camera compared to Sony, but I can just shoot and shoot and shoot with a very fast card that costs €250.

Click to expand...

That's actually wrong.

Angelbird 1TB type A card is $499.