What is the appeal of the LX100II vs something like GX85?

Jon_T said:

Highly dependent upon the type(s) of photog one does.

The slow max tele apertures of the ZS100/ ZS200 in lower light shooting conditions; i.e., a cloudy overcast days, outdoor evening events/ sports, etc. will require using high ISO's to have fast enough shutter speed to prevent subject movement blurring.

In such lighting conditions with my FZ1000 @ f/4 not uncommon to have 1/60th - 1/125th shutter requiring 1600 - 3200 ISO.

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Well it is a price to pay for such a small compact size that offers almost the same reach as the fz1000's equivalent focal length of 25-400 mm.

It is a trade off one has to decide for him or herself.




FZ1000 maximum aperture vs focal lengths




TZ220 maximum aperture vs focal lengths

Jacques Cornell said:

Also, why are you comparing size against a 35-100? This is a better comparison:

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I was trying to find a lens that can meet the LX100 ii's focal lengths to show how much more compact the LX100 is and why it deserves the premium price.

jackwelch said:

Jacques Cornell said:

Also, why are you comparing size against a 35-100? This is a better comparison:

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I was trying to find a lens that can meet the LX100 ii's focal lengths to show how much more compact the LX100 is and why it deserves the premium price.

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But, the 35-100 is a much longer lens than the LX100 has. The better size comparison would be with Panasonic's 12-35/2.8.

Jon_T said:

Unlike with fix-lens compacts, with ILC's one can attach longer focal length lenses rather turning IQ to "mush" with digital zoom.

Sorry, I do not consider any form of in-camera digital zoom a positive feature. Defeats the purpose of paying the price for a good quality camera.

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Clear image zoom or iZoom isn't that bad. It's just like cropping but you're doing it in camera and right there and then as you're taking the photo, it reduces the steps and time if say you're doing it after you took the photo.

This to me is one area compacts and bridge cameras have an advantage. but I've heard some recent ILCs now allow you to do the same.

Digital zoom is indeed not useable regarding IQ.

But the *few* (in my use cases, YMMV) shots I want to upscale I use AI softwares and those can get near what a true optical zoom would do if you go no further than say 200%.

That way it (almost) makes my LX100II an F 1.7 - 2.8 ... 24-150 mm camera.

Jacques Cornell said:

But, the 35-100 is a much longer lens than the LX100 has. The better size comparison would be with Panasonic's 12-35/2.8.

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You're absolutely right, I totally forgot about the 2x crop factor here. My head was somewhere else. Well this now changes the game.

jackwelch said:

Jacques Cornell said:

But, the 35-100 is a much longer lens than the LX100 has. The better size comparison would be with Panasonic's 12-35/2.8.

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You're absolutely right, I totally forgot about the 2x crop factor here. My head was somewhere else. Well this now changes the game.

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Yeah, but the 12-32 gathers almost two stops less light than the LX100's lens. In low light, advantage LX100. To match it, you need the 12-35/2.8, which is a fair bit bigger and more expensive.

Don't get me wrong - I love the 12-32, and on a GX9 it'll yield a slightly crisper, more detailed image than the LX100 and just about match the 12-35/2.8 in fine detail. This combo was long my choice for walkabout scenic use in daylight. But, for, say, a social gathering indoors, I'd bring my LX100 instead.

--
"Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. Because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai

No, MILCs also support digital zoom. For Panasonic MILCs, they all actually inherited the in-camera cropping (called ETC, which also called ETC or some other names on its fixed lens cameras for similar effect) upto 2x power, plus another max 4x digital zoom for combined effect of 8x...

The ETC and digital zoom was found on the first MILC G1 and upto every models after it (not sure GH6, but likely yes too).

Search for my older thread on this forum a few years ago had posted a sample to illustrate their effect and IQ. They were produced from Panasonic G85 and I don't think LX100 would do much worse. That had turned a physical 200mm lens into 3200mm equivalent focal length of FF system (2x crop factor of M43, 2X ETC & 4X digital zoom).

EDIT: the said sample (took from G85 & 45-200 f/4-5.6) is found as below:




PS= Photo Size, ETC=In-camera cropping, DZ=Digital Zoom, fl = Equivalent of focal length of FF system



--
Albert
** Please forgive my typo error.
** Please feel free to download my image and edit it as you like **

alcelc said:

No, MILCs also support digital zoom. For Panasonic MILCs, they all actually inherited the in-camera cropping (called ETC, which also called ETC or some other names on its fixed lens cameras for similar effect) upto 2x power, plus another max 4x digital zoom for combined effect of 8x...

The ETC and digital zoom was found on the first MILC G1 and upto every models after it (not sure GH6, but likely yes too).

Search for my older thread on this forum a few years ago had posted a sample to illustrate their effect and IQ. They were produced from Panasonic G85 and I don't think LX100 would do much worse. That had turned a physical 200mm lens into 3200mm equivalent focal length of FF system (2x crop factor of M43, 2X ETC & 4X digital zoom).

EDIT: the said sample (took from G85 & 45-200 f/4-5.6) is found as below:


PS= Photo Size, ETC=In-camera cropping, DZ=Digital Zoom, fl = Equivalent of focal length of FF system

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Very impressive stuff. Simply amazing what you are able to achieve with just a 200mm lens. Just one question, what does ETC stand for? I googled but nothing camera related came up. Btw thank you again.

Jacques Cornell said:

Don't get me wrong - I love the 12-32, and on a GX9 it'll yield a slightly crisper, more detailed image than the LX100 and just about match the 12-35/2.8 in fine detail. This combo was long my choice for walkabout scenic use in daylight. But, for, say, a social gathering indoors, I'd bring my LX100 instead.

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I can now see the appeal of the LX100 ii. Your post together with @camfan1's post really makes me curious about the LX100 ii.

I think getting this and one of those topaz photo AI bundles actually makes this worth a telephoto camera for me personally.

If you think about it a standalone lens of this f-stop and focal lenght can cost roughly or more than the LX100 ii standalone.

IIRC, Extended Tele Converter.

I met the term ETC first time on LC5, which was my first digital camera and led me to the camera of Panasonic.

ETC was under the same term on FZ5, FZ30 and FZ28. It was continued on G1 and every M43 mirrorless until now.

However AFAIK Panasonic might give a different name to ETC on some later fixed lens cameras and recently, ETC should have been integrated to part of the iZoom(?)...

alcelc said:

IIRC, Extended Tele Converter.

I met the term ETC first time on LC5, which was my first digital camera and led me to the camera of Panasonic.

ETC was under the same term on FZ5, FZ30 and FZ28. It was continued on G1 and every M43 mirrorless until now.

However AFAIK Panasonic might give a different name to ETC on some later fixed lens cameras and recently, ETC should have been integrated to part of the iZoom(?)...



--
Albert
** Please forgive my typo error.
** Please feel free to download my image and edit it as you like **

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I think my Canon G3X has something similar but they call it Digital Teleconverter. Never really understood the difference between this and Digital Zoom. There is a discussion about it here:

It is not difficult to understand optical zoom, ETC and Digital zoom.

Optical zoom usually refers to using the zoom power of lens.

ETC has been classified as sort of optical zoom by Panasonic. It is actually an in-camera cropping, e.g. in case of a 16Mp resolution sensor, the camera will only use the 8Mp at the center for the 1.4x ETC zoom effect. It is the same as printed a hardcopy image of 16Mp, cut the edges by scissors to a size of only 8Mp remained.

Therefore Panasonic explained that the image quality of ETC is the same as no ETC been used. Please note, it is only true when we use the 8Mp image not >100%.

Therefore, before iZoom been introduced, ETC has to work with Picture Size. When ETC = enable, PS=L will give 0 ETC effect, PS=M will give 1.4x ETC zoom effect, PS=S will give 2.0x ETC zoom effect. The benefit is we can do better metering and AF because we are getting closer (by the ETC effect).

Digital zoom is a combination of ETC & software interpolation. At 2.0x Digital zoom, the camera will use only the 4Mp at the centre, by software interpolation enlarges the image to 16Mp. So the IQ of output would be determined by the quality of the in-camera enlarging software.

My 2 cents.

Member said:

jackwelch wrote:a

... I think my Canon G3X has something similar but they call it Digital Teleconverter. Never really understood the difference between this and Digital Zoom. There is a discussion about it here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4135147

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If you read the threads should have a good idea thereof.

For more info, if still needed, see:

"Intelligent Zoom, Intelligent Resolution and Extra Optical Zoom on Panasonic Cameras"
by Graham Houghton.

"Optical vs. Digital Zoom"
article at photoxels.com

The other item that causes confusion for some is the compact camera's true "Optical Focal" length, and the "35mm Field of View equivalent" focal length use by camera mfgs.

See my older post HERE.

I have a lot of mFT cams. Probably too many. Of course the good old G1 which I will never part from. GH4, EPL-5, O-M1-MKII. Lenses: 12-35 and 35-100 F2.8, 100-400 PL, 20 mm f1.7, 56 mm F1.4 and others.

So that is plenty.

What does the LX100 or lX100II offer for that matter, to me?

• The dials on the body, I love that
• No exchange of lenses
• Less size and weight (body plus lens)
• Multiaspect ratio, like I had with the Gh2 is kind of nice.

So to me it is more convenient and I think I like the shooting experience more. It reminds me of the Fuji cams that tend to have similar controls.

I would prefer the LX100II but that one costs 750 euro or so over here secondhand and it hard to get. I can get a good LX100 for about 250 euro. From what I have seen the difference between LX100 and LX100II is incremental.

Jorginho said:

I have a lot of mFT cams. Probably too many. Of course the good old G1 which I will never part from. GH4, EPL-5, O-M1-MKII. Lenses: 12-35 and 35-100 F2.8, 100-400 PL, 20 mm f1.7, 56 mm F1.4 and others.

So that is plenty.

What does the LX100 or lX100II offer for that matter, to me?

• The dials on the body, I love that
• No exchange of lenses
• Less size and weight (body plus lens)
• Multiaspect ratio, like I had with the Gh2 is kind of nice.

So to me it is more convenient and I think I like the shooting experience more. It reminds me of the Fuji cams that tend to have similar controls.

I would prefer the LX100II but that one costs 750 euro or so over here secondhand and it hard to get. I can get a good LX100 for about 250 euro. From what I have seen the difference between LX100 and LX100II is incremental.

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Good luck with that - for me, a very enjoyable addition to my M43 collection!

I regret slightly that it doesn't also have a tilting screen, but no camera's perfect?

Peter

Thx! We'll see. I am going with my family on a holiday trip and lugging around an interchangable lens cam with some lenses is just not that convenient also. I think for such pics, an LX100 is more than enough quality wise and easy to cary with me everywhere. Can be put in the purse of my wife I imagine.

Jorginho said:

Thx! We'll see. I am going with my family on a holiday trip and lugging around an interchangable lens cam with some lenses is just not that convenient also. I think for such pics, an LX100 is more than enough quality wise and easy to cary with me everywhere. Can be put in the purse of my wife I imagine.

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Back from holidays and the LX100 I got for 265 euro (with an extra battery and a 16 Gb SC card) was in A+ condition. Just two very slight scratches on the front. Lens was in perfect state and there was no dust.

Portugal is very dusty and at one point I was surprised by wind and dust, still nothing entered the cam so I was fortunate I guess.

Now onto the last sentence of my previous message...I barely needed that purse. The cam is very light and with the strap that comes with it I just put the cam to the side of body and it never bothered me at all. The pics are not as sharpas with my Em1.2 and the 20 mm f1.7 let alone the 56 mm f1.4 Sigma. It lacks resolution (12,8 MP vs 20 MP) I think. But I am not disappointed at all, the IQ is good.

When it comes to functionality it actually went precisely the way I envisioned: I love how it works, how it feels in the hands, the controls/dials on the cam and not much menudiving.

A collegue of mine has a G9, much like me he thinks it is too big and heavy to go on holidays or citytrips and hopes G9-mkII is going to be more g80 like from that perspective

He was eyeballing a TZ200 or so. Today I brought my LX100 so he could have a look, but I advised him to get a second hand LX100-II because of the better IQ (slightly) and touchscreen. He just handheld it and thinks it is exactly what he wants.

Anyway: I wholeheartedly recommend the LX100 at least as an add on when you do not want to carry your ILC around and/or do not want to exchange lenses all the time.

Oof might be tough love. I've see a lot of comments here and outside the forums who absolutely have fallen love with how the G9 and their full frame bodies feel and handle. I'm also in that camp, with Nikon being the only other company that just works for me. I ended up selling my G9 because it was absolutely tough love for me seeing the CDAF pulsing. I have the EM1II but I only like it because it has phase detection- almost everything else is a negative for me.

What i'd love to see is a GX9 MK2 including most of what the next G9 sucessor's AF. We've seen the EM5III/OM5, Sony A7C and recently the Canon R8 which can do it.

I've personally been eyeing my local marketplace, hoping to see a LX100 or a ZS100.

--
I like cameras, they're fun.

Jorginho said:

Jorginho said:

Thx! We'll see. I am going with my family on a holiday trip and lugging around an interchangable lens cam with some lenses is just not that convenient also. I think for such pics, an LX100 is more than enough quality wise and easy to cary with me everywhere. Can be put in the purse of my wife I imagine.

Click to expand...

Back from holidays and the LX100 I got for 265 euro (with an extra battery and a 16 Gb SC card) was in A+ condition. Just two very slight scratches on the front. Lens was in perfect state and there was no dust.

Portugal is very dusty and at one point I was surprised by wind and dust, still nothing entered the cam so I was fortunate I guess.

Now onto the last sentence of my previous message...I barely needed that purse. The cam is very light and with the strap that comes with it I just put the cam to the side of body and it never bothered me at all. The pics are not as sharpas with my Em1.2 and the 20 mm f1.7 let alone the 56 mm f1.4 Sigma. It lacks resolution (12,8 MP vs 20 MP) I think. But I am not disappointed at all, the IQ is good.

When it comes to functionality it actually went precisely the way I envisioned: I love how it works, how it feels in the hands, the controls/dials on the cam and not much menudiving.

A collegue of mine has a G9, much like me he thinks it is too big and heavy to go on holidays or citytrips and hopes G9-mkII is going to be more g80 like from that perspective

He was eyeballing a TZ200 or so. Today I brought my LX100 so he could have a look, but I advised him to get a second hand LX100-II because of the better IQ (slightly) and touchscreen. He just handheld it and thinks it is exactly what he wants.

Anyway: I wholeheartedly recommend the LX100 at least as an add on when you do not want to carry your ILC around and/or do not want to exchange lenses all the time.

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A trip with my wifes collegues from the University took us for four days to London. I kind of like London but not too much I found out. Nothing wrong with it, but for someone who loves Scotland mainly because of the Highlands and Landscape photography London is just a tad too busy...But near the Holiday Inn regents Park you have this camera shop, I think Cameraworld is the name. We were just walking by and I thought: "Why not have a look.."". And there it was, a black LX100 II. They let me try it and it is in A++ condition. Not even a tiny tiny scratch. 650 pound is quite a bit of money for this cam but I noticed last months the cam is just impossible to get in The NEtherlands. And when you buy via internet, second hand..you never know. So the next day I went again and tested it. It is really like a brandnew cam. The salesman told me it was so new because it was bought, shot with a few times and then left on its own collecting dust (but not on the sensor, I tested it).

So is it worth the extra money over the lX100? Well...experience is almost the same as with the LX100. The touchscreen is however a very nice extra and what I love to shoot is L. Monochrome D. It is such a nice B&W mode for all sorts of photography.

It is early days but I tested both side by side in the shop and it might be sampel variation, but it does seem the LX100II has clearly more detail in the pics. When I look at 100% this cam is much closer to my OMD EM1.2 with a prime lens then my LX100 is. So that is to me a big plus. Also it seems like the IBIS is better, in video I seem to notice it really but I tested side by side in stills too and my (simple) tests gave me 1-2 stops advantage.

AF seems better also in video.

One thing I miss is the dedicated button for the Filtermodes. I can't seem to get an Fn button doing exactly that, but may be I should look more into it.

I have to see I am very very happy with the cam and have no regrets. My collegue has been searching for this cam and the Dlux7 (Leica's copy of the LX100ii) for 2 months now and still has not found ONE copy (second hand).

I would love to see an LX100iii though. Things I would love to have:
- 25 Mp sensor from G9-II (getting us 21-22 MP)
. OSPDAF,
- Better EVF (although to me it is alright as it is).
- Weather/dustsealing
- external microphone jack (sound is pretty bad on this one)
- Better IBIS

Nice to have
- tiltable screen on tiltable EVF as long as it does not impact the size too much or causes overheating (I have swivle screens on my m43 cams and while it is vry hand for low angles, I do not need it on this cam per se).
- Hires mode (?)
- Leica monochrome and colourscience as it is called would be great
- Filter modes back in the place where now Fn1 is