Lenses not certified for 40mp …why exactly?

Pangolin99

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What’s not happening with lenses not on the ‘certified for 40mp’ list? What actual differences should I expect? Would I need to increase my exposure time to compensate, expect increased vignetting, aberrations, or a generally soft image across the frame? Physically, what’s going on? Has anyone tried a Viltrox lens on the X-T5 or X-H2?
 
Reading through this, just a serious hobby photographer like myself starts to have his eyes roll back in his head and lose the details in these complicated and not common nomenclature for the average person.

But this thread shows what DP forums are really about, super technical and complicated discussions about sensors and resolving power, etc. etc.

From my perspective, I know that I like a larger sensor camera
Now as this is a DP thread, I'd have to ask you to clarify (with supporting data and sources) whether by "larger" sensor, you mean size of the sensor or number of pixels?
because it gives me the opportunity to crop and get a composition I might like better and still maintain sufficient detail.

And second, in a general sense, more expensive and higher quality lenses will give better results than cheapo lenses. So if i can afford a better lens I will buy it if I think it will work for me.

I just like to take photos I end up being happy with, for printing, for sharing, and for myself. But interesting to read about this stuff.
 
Roger Cicala on understanding MTF charts.

There is no single tool that is perfect - lenses are complex things, but the MTF captures a lot of data, in a graphical presentation that is relatively easy and quick to grasp.
Thanks for the link to the podcast about understanding MTF charts. It was really helpful to me and the best explanation that I've heard. I think it was also useful to hear Roger talk about what it doesn't tell you. It was very much worth my time to listen to all of it.
 
I was replying to this text in the post by sportyaccordy above:

"sounds like Fuji is just trying to scare you into replacing perfectly good glass.

I have got tack sharp photos from old film era kit zooms on 40MP+ sensors. Any decent lens should have no problem being sharp across most of the frame... stopped down."

The first sentence has a smiley face at the end of it so I do know if he was serious, but in the last sentence he makes a general, almost meaningless statement and seems serious.

My point was that I can make the same last two statements by buying a camera with a 20mpx sensor, so why spend money on a 40MP+ sensor camera.

It is the lens that is the weak link, not the sensor when consideration resolving power.
 
It is relatively simple English"

Optimal: "most desirable or satisfactory " is the adjective related to the noun "optimum".

As in optimal lens performance.

All lenses are designed to have a certain max. resolution.

Calculating Lens Resolution with Precision | Features | Vision Spectra (photonics.com)

If I put a lens that can resolve a 20mpx sensor at its max. resolving power in front of a 40mpx sensor, the remaining mpx will be wasted.

This is one reason why some lenses cost much more than others, including eye glasses.

It is why you pay more for a higher resolution TV, a faster car, etc.
 
Look at your sample lens chart. Just look at the lenses in the top tier and which ones are in the next tiers. Rather obvious. Wide aperture primes and zooms. Top prices.
Next tier has wide aperture primes and zoom as well. Same with tiers further down.

Example, 24-70 2.8 GM & 70-200 2.8 GM is 3rd tier, but their GM II revision is 1st tier. 3rd party equivalent is 2nd tier. Prices for the GM I version is higher than 3rd party equivalent.
I didn't want to write a tome in my earlier response. It's still all obvious. Gee... second generation lenses are in the top tier, first gen are in the lower tiers. Who would have thought? Third party wide aperture lenses are generally in lower tiers. Again, not a big surprise.

The vast majority of the buying public would never see a chart like this. It's the photo geeks who frequent this forum and similar sites that would see it. And most of them don't need it.
 
What’s not happening with lenses not on the ‘certified for 40mp’ list? What actual differences should I expect? Would I need to increase my exposure time to compensate, expect increased vignetting, aberrations, or a generally soft image across the frame? Physically, what’s going on? Has anyone tried a Viltrox lens on the X-T5 or X-H2?
The whole “this lens isn’t enough for this sensor” thing is a myth.

If anything you just see what you got before just more clearly
 
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"If anything, if you want more resolution, it pays more to get a high resolution sensor with OK glass than phenomenal glass on a "low" resolution sensor."

Both conditions waste the output of a sensor.

Similar to trying to display 4k file resolution on a 720p TV screen. Anything in excess of 720p resolution will be thrown away. Why is this so hard to understand? Maybe it takes someone with an electrical engineering degree like Ken Rockwell to understand it.

Lens optical designs are finite and do not change because you put them in front of a sensor.

I was not being a "brand police". Canon put out a similar list.

I was referring to laws of optics and physics. Think about it? Extreme cases can be useful. Would a lens similar to my $240 Canon 28/f2.8 be able to resolve the Fuji 100 mpx sensor? If so, you could save yourself a lot of money.
 
Yes, and this implies that the rest of the lenses do not get "maximum benefit" or are not "optimal" by Fujis wording.
 
True. A lens with a minimum resolution, but no max. I wish I had that lens. It would make my $240 Canon prime worth a lot more. I would be tempted to find something as inexpensive and put it in front of Fujis 100mpx sensor.
 
In the interests of accuracy, can we be clear.

Fuji have published a list of lenses which will give optimal results combined with the 40mp sensor.

40ba617f58f5497ba6327f718621a689.jpg

Nowhere have they indicated that older, or non-listed lenses will give poor results, should be avoided, or special treatment is needed.

A number of posters view that advice as a marketing ploy to promote new lenses. I don’t agree. They are of course fully entitled to this opinion, but shouldn’t exaggerate or distort it to something which it isn’t, or become unnecessarily indignant.

Fuji have issued some info or guidance. Use it as you see fit, or take it with a pinch of salt if that’s how you feel. I will continue using my 16-80 and 16mm prime with the larger sensor 😊. Happy New Year everyone.
Not a maketing ploy? You really think the xf18-120 will outresolve the primes that didn't make the list? Ie xf56 xf16f1.4, gen1 xf27. It's a random list of their newer lenses that they want to sell IMHO. It's pretty arbitrary. Why the 16f2.8 and not the 16f1.4?
The XF56 f/1.2 is on the list but the absence of the XF16 f/1.4 baffles me too. I'm guessing Fuji would rather sell the new XF18 f/1.4.
The new 56 is on the list, but the old one is not. It's the appearance of the XF18-120 on the list and the absence of several know-to-be-sharp primes that really discredits the list for me. I have both the 16F2.8 and the 16F1.4. My F1.4 is sharper..why is the 2.8 on the list and not the 1.4? It's a list of lenses they want to sell and i think it's existence just creates confusion.
 
Roger Cicala on understanding MTF charts.

There is no single tool that is perfect - lenses are complex things, but the MTF captures a lot of data, in a graphical presentation that is relatively easy and quick to grasp.
Thanks for the link to the podcast about understanding MTF charts. It was really helpful to me and the best explanation that I've heard. I think it was also useful to hear Roger talk about what it doesn't tell you. It was very much worth my time to listen to all of it.
You’re welcome. Roger Cicala is a very knowledgeable and clear communicator. His blog is a remarkable resource.
 
Look at your sample lens chart. Just look at the lenses in the top tier and which ones are in the next tiers. Rather obvious. Wide aperture primes and zooms. Top prices.
Next tier has wide aperture primes and zoom as well. Same with tiers further down.

Example, 24-70 2.8 GM & 70-200 2.8 GM is 3rd tier, but their GM II revision is 1st tier. 3rd party equivalent is 2nd tier. Prices for the GM I version is higher than 3rd party equivalent.
I didn't want to write a tome in my earlier response. It's still all obvious. Gee... second generation lenses are in the top tier, first gen are in the lower tiers. Who would have thought? Third party wide aperture lenses are generally in lower tiers. Again, not a big surprise.

The vast majority of the buying public would never see a chart like this. It's the photo geeks who frequent this forum and similar sites that would see it. And most of them don't need it.
Sure, 2nd gen vs 1st gen is obvious, but how much more? Where would the 3rd party stand? There are cases of it below, in between or even above. That isn't obvious at first glance.

I say have the chart/data/resource in one place and let users decide. Expert/geeks can ignore. Been useful for Sony thus far and might be as so too for Fuji as it's lens ecosystem expand.
 
This whole Lens not certified thing has all the hallmarks of a FaceBook scam. Somebody came up with a theory that some lenses may not resolve as well with 40mp sensors and suddenly everyone takes it as the absolute truth. Stuff and nonsense. A lens is a lens and most, if not all will resolve more detail with a 40mp sensor. To me it is shear comedy or would be if it wasn’t so stupid!!
 
This whole Lens not certified thing has all the hallmarks of a FaceBook scam. Somebody came up with a theory that some lenses may not resolve as well with 40mp sensors and suddenly everyone takes it as the absolute truth. Stuff and nonsense. A lens is a lens and most, if not all will resolve more detail with a 40mp sensor. To me it is shear comedy or would be if it wasn’t so stupid!!


55bcbc380a2c42239f6249a997f2ae8a.jpg.gif
 
I am not basing Fujis or Canons lens list on paranoia about them trying to sell more lenses to people. I give them the benefit of the doubt unless I see evidence to the contrary. I don't mean subjective evidence from one person.

I guess I should just find the most inexpensive lens I can find, mount it on a Fuji 100mpx sensor camera and it will resolve all 100mpx. I wish that were true, it would save a lot of people money. :-)

I think that you and Ken Rockwell would have an interesting discussion about his lens tests. :-)

I might have to dig out some of the lens tests that Modern Photography did to get beyond the generalizations and hand waving. I should not have to, because differences in lens resolving power have been mentioned many times in DPR.
 
"But every time they'd pick a favourite and every time it'd be the L glass based on a "nicer colour and contrast".

I had the same experience when selling prints: Photo content (subject matter, color, contrast and light) almost always trumps gear tech. quality except in extreme cases at the edges.
 
Of course, photo content will almost always trump gear tech in the end result. Your lens is all you may ever need.

Sometimes you don't need a 12mm socket, but sometimes you do. :-D

A lens either has enough resolving power for a sensor or it does not from a tech and not aesthetic point of view.
 
I agree that some photographers prefer lens "character" over pure lens tech quality, but that does not take away from the tech argument.

Lens "character" is definitely not preferred in microscope lenses.
 
Thank you for making my point in two sentences.
 
The OP thread title is BS.
There is no ‘certified’ list. That word has never been used by Fujifilm and is grossly inaccurate.

So Fuji published a list of preferred lenses that it says are better with 40mp sensor. Or if you want, that it would rather people bought in preference to others in the range which will mostly work fine.

145 posts and counting.
To read many of the comments you’d think Fuji had committed a crime. Get a sense of perspective. And technical arguments (literally) which are circular and endless.

Beam me up Scotty.
 

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