Will Sony consider creating light long telephotos like 500mm?

Perhaps it is time for you to look at the Olympus system, there OM-1 appears to be as exciting as an A1.
Why let go the full frame sensor when you can use the same physical focal length and crop to the same image quality as with the MFT format? For everything else but the few instances you need to crop, the 50 Mp full frame sensor will be the clear winner!

Some are fooled by the angle of view, though, thinking that smaller sensors makes more reach. When using the same physical focal length for the same subject distance, the subjet is captured at exactly thje same image scale, no matter crop or not.
m43 still has a some allure,but it is not for being better iq or for reach really, although it is more affordable in some regards to get that reach fov. the om-1 with the 150-400mm does offer a good package, it will still set you back as much as a A1 and 200-600mm and anything shy/short of cropping to the same fov swings the advantage to full frame ie 600mm on a1 cropped to 1000mm like the om-1 500mm 5.6 with t/c used on the 150-400mm ,m43 biggest advantage is for travel and a lot of that is swings and roundabouts.
Read what I wrote about physical focal length and image scale on the sensor!

My point is that you can use the same physical focal length on larger sensors, crop, and end up with the same image quality as MFT. Bulk & weight of the gear will be pretty much in the same ballpark! That's why I judge MFT of no interest at all for users of larger format sensor cameras.
no i read what you wrote but the main advantages are the iq when filling the frame,ease of subject seperation ,and low light,yet still people use both formats ,but you are kind of right the lenses have inherently gotten smaller on the the emount ,to the point of m43 not holding much advantage, in most regards, still the om-1 will always be more robust ,better ibis ,and frame rates ,and other computational stuff is useful simulated nd ,pro capture ,live composite,hand held hi res ,focus stacking,starry af etc and cheaper ,makes it ideal for travel and general purpose camera
 
I see most of Nikons lenses as superior for sports,
not with those slow stepper motors, it's infected most of the z-mount lineup... for example, $6500 for the 800pf stepper motor lens is ridiculous.
Have to agree, extremely disappointed Nikon chose to use stepper motors in the 400f4.5 let alone the 800pf. People will argue that not all stepper motors are the same but for my money it isn't acceptable :-|

Not entirely sure whether Sony will go for a 500mm prime, would be nice no doubt, 500f4 or 500f4.5 maybe, could slot in to the range, maybe they will spring a surprise :-D
Would really like to see a 500mm prime with a price point less $4000 and weight under 1700 grams. The Nikon is $3600 an f/5.6 and 1500 grams I think.
 
I see most of Nikons lenses as superior for sports,
not with those slow stepper motors, it's infected most of the z-mount lineup... for example, $6500 for the 800pf stepper motor lens is ridiculous.
Have to agree, extremely disappointed Nikon chose to use stepper motors in the 400f4.5 let alone the 800pf. People will argue that not all stepper motors are the same but for my money it isn't acceptable :-|

Not entirely sure whether Sony will go for a 500mm prime, would be nice no doubt, 500f4 or 500f4.5 maybe, could slot in to the range, maybe they will spring a surprise :-D
Would really like to see a 500mm prime with a price point less $4000 and weight under 1700 grams. The Nikon is $3600 an f/5.6 and 1500 grams I think.
As someone who owns this lens, I have to say having such a sharp prime at its weight is phenomenal. I never think about the weight. And there are very few cases, maybe 1%, where the PF bokeh is even noticeable. The 200-600 is a beautiful lens and I've seen some amazing shots from it, but I simply would not have fun carrying that lens especially since I frequently carry other gear. I would go so far as to say that the 500PF is so good that after I got it, I almost completely stopped caring about new photography gear.
 
I see most of Nikons lenses as superior for sports,
not with those slow stepper motors, it's infected most of the z-mount lineup... for example, $6500 for the 800pf stepper motor lens is ridiculous.
Have to agree, extremely disappointed Nikon chose to use stepper motors in the 400f4.5 let alone the 800pf. People will argue that not all stepper motors are the same but for my money it isn't acceptable :-|

Not entirely sure whether Sony will go for a 500mm prime, would be nice no doubt, 500f4 or 500f4.5 maybe, could slot in to the range, maybe they will spring a surprise :-D
Would really like to see a 500mm prime with a price point less $4000 and weight under 1700 grams. The Nikon is $3600 an f/5.6 and 1500 grams I think.
As someone who owns this lens, I have to say having such a sharp prime at its weight is phenomenal. I never think about the weight. And there are very few cases, maybe 1%, where the PF bokeh is even noticeable. The 200-600 is a beautiful lens and I've seen some amazing shots from it, but I simply would not have fun carrying that lens especially since I frequently carry other gear. I would go so far as to say that the 500PF is so good that after I got it, I almost completely stopped caring about new photography gear.
Since I now have access to a Nikon Z camera I went out on a limb and found a mint AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/5.6E PD ED VR and FTZ II to try to understand the experience it provides. Lenses are a key part of any camera system and at greater tha 500mm cost as much an often 2 to 3 times more than a camera body.
 
My guess is that yes, Sony will eventually release lighter telephoto lenses. There has been a patent of an improved PF technology for example. But we have no idea when such lenses will be released, because Sony doesn't announce products being in development. It might be announced next week or next year or in 5 years. No clue!

I guess you could use the 70-350 APS-C lens and shoot in crop mode, giving you a 525mm range with a better quality than any M43 system, and 21MP. That lens is small and light.
 
My guess is that yes, Sony will eventually release lighter telephoto lenses. There has been a patent of an improved PF technology for example. But we have no idea when such lenses will be released, because Sony doesn't announce products being in development. It might be announced next week or next year or in 5 years. No clue!

I guess you could use the 70-350 APS-C lens and shoot in crop mode, giving you a 525mm range with a better quality than any M43 system, and 21MP. That lens is small and light.
I’ll be honest I would do that until Sony gave us 28 Mpixel APS-C camera in an A1 type body with 30 FPS or like Fuji 40 FPS at a cost of the A7IV ($2500). I have no plans to use an Alpha 1 in crop mode unless I want 900mm from my 200-600 or 600mm out a 100-400.

Fuji has their new XF 150-600 at 1600 grams which is the FOV of a 225=900 and can take teleconverter and it cost $2000

--
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe! - Words to live by. Albert Einstein
 
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I’m a Sony Alpha 1 ( and many other bodies ) shooter where my longest lenses are the 200-600 and 100-400. I don’t own an FE 600mm f/4 GM. I have my longer lenses for wildlife an BIF.

I’ve been playing around with the Nikon Z system some and surprised by the prime PF and other lenses they have created that are smaller and lighter and than anything Sony or Canon appear to have. Theses include their 300

I know Sony’s 400/2.8, 600/4, and 200-600 are all great lenses but the are not very light and a challenge to hand hold. Especially as I get older. Does anyone know if Sony have any Developments in this area? While I know these light primes are usually a stop slower the reduced weight seems like a reasonable trade off for better hand holding.

Share your thoughts Take care.
In fact I would love to see the likes of the Nikon PF 500 F/5.6 in all brands. I love what they have done with that 500mm and I shoot with a guy that uses one. Superb lens from what I've see.

If Sony ever does, I would be very interested for sure. With the ISO we can get now days, it's not an issue with F/5.6 really. I use the Sony 200-600 and it's not a problem for how I shoot. A lighter weight 500 F/5.6, count me in.

All the best.

Danny.
 
I have never pulled the trigger on the Sony 600/4 because of the size and weight. The Olympus Pro 300/4 is a very sharp and fast focusing lens on the OM1. So much smaller and lighter than A1 with Sony 600/4. Looking forward to trying this combo more (mostly used the OM1 in travel so far).
Just use 300 mm focal length and crop with the FF camera, and image quality will be equal to the MFT camera with the 3oo mm lens. About same weight and bulk too, but way more sensor area available for everything else.
You are right in debating the strange comparison between the OM1 with 300/4 lens and the A1 with 600/4 lens. I don't really understand why this is still always done. A 300mm f4 lens is a 300mm f4 lens and a 600mm f4 lens is a 600mm f4 lens, all regardless of what sensor area size and sensor resolution you place behind it. It makes no sense to me to compare these two lenses.
people who try to make those comparisons aren't looking at equivalent photos, which in this case is 300/4 on mft = 600/8 on ff.

so of course an effective 600/8 lens is going to be lighter.
 
My guess is that yes, Sony will eventually release lighter telephoto lenses. There has been a patent of an improved PF technology for example. But we have no idea when such lenses will be released, because Sony doesn't announce products being in development. It might be announced next week or next year or in 5 years. No clue!

I guess you could use the 70-350 APS-C lens and shoot in crop mode, giving you a 525mm range with a better quality than any M43 system, and 21MP. That lens is small and light.
I’ll be honest I would do that until Sony gave us 28 Mpixel APS-C camera in an A1 type body with 30 FPS or like Fuji 40 FPS at a cost of the A7IV ($2500). I have no plans to use an Alpha 1 in crop mode unless I want 900mm from my 200-600 or 600mm out a 100-400.

Fuji has their new XF 150-600 at 1600 grams which is the FOV of a 225=900 and can take teleconverter and it cost $2000
it's cheap and light because it's an f/5.6-f/8 lens, so much slower than the fe200-600 at f/5.6-f/6.3

f/8 + aps-c just doesn't work well in a supertelephoto.
 
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what is it that the 200-600 is not doing for you? I see most of Nikons lenses as superior for sports, but not that compelling for wildlife.
While I am very happy with my 200-600 it is heavier an larger so lighter and smaller at 500mm would be better for some use cases.
there is the 100-400 for that.

it’s true they could have probably made some 1400 g 500 5.6 or something, but are such details really worth having an extra lens for? Haven’t used my 400 2.8 since I got the 200-600, but I occasionally miss my 70-400.
--
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe! - Words to live by. Albert Einstein
 
I am waiting Sony FE 500/4.0 GM OSS, will buy once it's released without hesitation :-) With the latest Sony design technology, it could weight around 2,500 g. For me such 500/4.0 is the best balance between reach and weight/size. I miss this lens after sold Canon EF 500L/4.0 IS that weighted at 8.5 lb or 3,870 g.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55485085@N04/albums
 
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Maybe we should limit these smaller, lighter lenses to 1500 grams which easily covers the three lighter Nikkor lenses I’m thinking about. The 400/4.5, 300 PF, and the 500/5.6 F mount PF.
I guess that might be one of the marketing exercises they undergo.

Imagine a couple of developers and the marketing people sitting together preparing the two or three lenses they'd like to build next to the head of lens/camera devision fighting for the budget they need for execution.

They surely have different value prepositions and technical darfst they could achieve and maybe one or two mockups to illustrate the look and feel of the lenses they target.

Ultimately the brand philosophy and last but not least the achievable revenue in conjunction with manufacturing capacity and capabilities will be discussed.

Sony has NO pedigree in wildlife photography or sports and action yet. Yes - their cameras opt for these areas as well but a classic 500 f/4.0 would neither fit their targets being light and nimble nor would it be a huge selling success costing as much as their GM 400 and 600 lenses being in the middle with no extra advantage except being maybe 300 g lighter.

Therefore I think Sony will address a area that's more like a wider market for many photo enthusiasts.

What's missing is a fast 200 .. 300 mm prime and an ultra lightweight tele macro and similarly something like the new Nikkor 400 f/4.5

SONY could do all of these lenses but they must meet a broader audience to generate lots of revenue. Either it will be an expensive exotic prime for a top end market or they'd go for a wider audience with a mediocre pricing range but huge volumes.

Talking about huge volumes in a chip shortage sounds like a contradiction in itself.

Nevertheless we can be sure Sony will follow it's brand pillars for compact lightweight fast and optical outstanding solutions,

What we know from the outside is the gaps in their portfolio and these are mainly in medium fast primes. The top notch and top end is served perfectly for the few who are willing to spend that amount of money because they can or want.

For me an € 14 k lens is absolutely feasible but having owned the EF 300 L IS USM II f/2.8 I can tell you it's a pure waste of money owning such a lens when it's too heavy for an all day hike sitting on the shelf collecting dust - I will never ever again buy a 3 kg monster that's purely a trunk filler in my car - never carried it for more than 1 .. 2 h a day. That's not a walk about lens weight for me. Therefore I don't think we'll see any 2 ½ kg 500 f/4.0

Nikon has shown that it can be easily done to fit a quite similar lens in 400 mm f/4.5 at less than 1.3 kg

In case Sony makes one of these lenses it will be probably a lightweight option IMHO
 
I have never pulled the trigger on the Sony 600/4 because of the size and weight. The Olympus Pro 300/4 is a very sharp and fast focusing lens on the OM1. So much smaller and lighter than A1 with Sony 600/4. Looking forward to trying this combo more (mostly used the OM1 in travel so far).
Just use 300 mm focal length and crop with the FF camera, and image quality will be equal to the MFT camera with the 3oo mm lens. About same weight and bulk too, but way more sensor area available for everything else.
You are right in debating the strange comparison between the OM1 with 300/4 lens and the A1 with 600/4 lens. I don't really understand why this is still always done. A 300mm f4 lens is a 300mm f4 lens and a 600mm f4 lens is a 600mm f4 lens, all regardless of what sensor area size and sensor resolution you place behind it.
My guess is that MFT people want to compare field of view, so that they can claim that larger sensor systems will be much bigger and heavier. They never say that longer focal length means larger image scale on the sensor and better image quality ... ;-)
Perhaps for e.g. landscape photography, where little or no cropping takes place, this would make some sense, but for wildlife/bird photography it makes no sense at all to compare field of view, because one is always cropping, and mostly significantly, so there goes the FOV comparison out the window.

Comparing lenses dóes make sense, because longer lenses allow to get truly closer to your subject (opposed to the mostly flawed sense of digital cropping power with high pixel density cameras), lenses with a large aperture allow for better subject isolation and more light gathering, as well as large front elements allowing for higher maximum resolution. These benefits are all sustained by physical science, but the FOV comparison does not tell you anything about the benefits of your system, it only tells you how much you are (digitally) cropping.
Your arguments are inconsistent with the scenario. While "large front elements" do indeed allow better subject isolation, the lenses compared above are 75mm vs 150mm in diameter. Also while there is no principal difference between the IQ of MFT vs a heavily cropped FF (when on the same lens), while in real life you would avoid cropping the FF that much. Besides you can't take BIF photos of fast flyers without some cropping, which means the MFT will often have to be cropped even more.

MFT certainly is light and can have fairly good IQ. Doesn't mean it's as good.
 
Perhaps it is time for you to look at the Olympus system, there OM-1 appears to be as exciting as an A1.
At least 4x less exiting. The image sensor is tiny.
'Tiny' sensor is still able to produce good results in the right hands... 😉
Obviously.

You should take a closer look at what 'the right hands' can do with a larger image sensor. ;-)
Latest winner of the bird challenge was captured using an OM-1 - https://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Challenge.aspx?ID=15639

PS! I like and use both Sony and Olympus cameras
 
I have never pulled the trigger on the Sony 600/4 because of the size and weight. The Olympus Pro 300/4 is a very sharp and fast focusing lens on the OM1. So much smaller and lighter than A1 with Sony 600/4. Looking forward to trying this combo more (mostly used the OM1 in travel so far).
Just use 300 mm focal length and crop with the FF camera, and image quality will be equal to the MFT camera with the 3oo mm lens. About same weight and bulk too, but way more sensor area available for everything else.
You are right in debating the strange comparison between the OM1 with 300/4 lens and the A1 with 600/4 lens. I don't really understand why this is still always done. A 300mm f4 lens is a 300mm f4 lens and a 600mm f4 lens is a 600mm f4 lens, all regardless of what sensor area size and sensor resolution you place behind it. It makes no sense to me to compare these two lenses.
people who try to make those comparisons aren't looking at equivalent photos, which in this case is 300/4 on mft = 600/8 on ff.

so of course an effective 600/8 lens is going to be lighter.
Same entrance pupil (75 mm) and a longer tube - and the lens should be lighter?
 
Maybe we should limit these smaller, lighter lenses to 1500 grams which easily covers the three lighter Nikkor lenses I’m thinking about. The 400/4.5, 300 PF, and the 500/5.6 F mount PF.
I guess that might be one of the marketing exercises they undergo.

Imagine a couple of developers and the marketing people sitting together preparing the two or three lenses they'd like to build next to the head of lens/camera devision fighting for the budget they need for execution.

They surely have different value prepositions and technical darfst they could achieve and maybe one or two mockups to illustrate the look and feel of the lenses they target.

Ultimately the brand philosophy and last but not least the achievable revenue in conjunction with manufacturing capacity and capabilities will be discussed.

Sony has NO pedigree in wildlife photography or sports and action yet. Yes - their cameras opt for these areas as well but a classic 500 f/4.0 would neither fit their targets being light and nimble nor would it be a huge selling success costing as much as their GM 400 and 600 lenses being in the middle with no extra advantage except being maybe 300 g lighter.

Therefore I think Sony will address a area that's more like a wider market for many photo enthusiasts.

What's missing is a fast 200 .. 300 mm prime and an ultra lightweight tele macro and similarly something like the new Nikkor 400 f/4.5

SONY could do all of these lenses but they must meet a broader audience to generate lots of revenue. Either it will be an expensive exotic prime for a top end market or they'd go for a wider audience with a mediocre pricing range but huge volumes.

Talking about huge volumes in a chip shortage sounds like a contradiction in itself.

Nevertheless we can be sure Sony will follow it's brand pillars for compact lightweight fast and optical outstanding solutions,

What we know from the outside is the gaps in their portfolio and these are mainly in medium fast primes. The top notch and top end is served perfectly for the few who are willing to spend that amount of money because they can or want.

For me an € 14 k lens is absolutely feasible but having owned the EF 300 L IS USM II f/2.8 I can tell you it's a pure waste of money owning such a lens when it's too heavy for an all day hike sitting on the shelf collecting dust - I will never ever again buy a 3 kg monster that's purely a trunk filler in my car - never carried it for more than 1 .. 2 h a day. That's not a walk about lens weight for me. Therefore I don't think we'll see any 2 ½ kg 500 f/4.0

Nikon has shown that it can be easily done to fit a quite similar lens in 400 mm f/4.5 at less than 1.3 kg

In case Sony makes one of these lenses it will be probably a lightweight option IMHO
Agree. I have an older Canon EF 30mm f/2.8L IS in its case holding down the floor of my photo closet that I no longer want to carry. Nikon’s 400/4.6 and 500/5.6 is what motivated me to create this thread. Not planning to look for a &12000-$14000 lens.
 
I have never pulled the trigger on the Sony 600/4 because of the size and weight. The Olympus Pro 300/4 is a very sharp and fast focusing lens on the OM1. So much smaller and lighter than A1 with Sony 600/4. Looking forward to trying this combo more (mostly used the OM1 in travel so far).
Just use 300 mm focal length and crop with the FF camera, and image quality will be equal to the MFT camera with the 3oo mm lens. About same weight and bulk too, but way more sensor area available for everything else.
You are right in debating the strange comparison between the OM1 with 300/4 lens and the A1 with 600/4 lens. I don't really understand why this is still always done. A 300mm f4 lens is a 300mm f4 lens and a 600mm f4 lens is a 600mm f4 lens, all regardless of what sensor area size and sensor resolution you place behind it.
My guess is that MFT people want to compare field of view, so that they can claim that larger sensor systems will be much bigger and heavier. They never say that longer focal length means larger image scale on the sensor and better image quality ... ;-)
Perhaps for e.g. landscape photography, where little or no cropping takes place, this would make some sense, but for wildlife/bird photography it makes no sense at all to compare field of view, because one is always cropping, and mostly significantly, so there goes the FOV comparison out the window.

Comparing lenses dóes make sense, because longer lenses allow to get truly closer to your subject (opposed to the mostly flawed sense of digital cropping power with high pixel density cameras), lenses with a large aperture allow for better subject isolation and more light gathering, as well as large front elements allowing for higher maximum resolution. These benefits are all sustained by physical science, but the FOV comparison does not tell you anything about the benefits of your system, it only tells you how much you are (digitally) cropping.
Your arguments are inconsistent with the scenario. While "large front elements" do indeed allow better subject isolation, the lenses compared above are 75mm vs 150mm in diameter. Also while there is no principal difference between the IQ of MFT vs a heavily cropped FF (when on the same lens), while in real life you would avoid cropping the FF that much. Besides you can't take BIF photos of fast flyers without some cropping, which means the MFT will often have to be cropped even more.

MFT certainly is light and can have fairly good IQ. Doesn't mean it's as good.
While I would have agreed on the cropping limitations with yesterdays 20-24mp FF bodies, I find that with the Sony A1, the pixel resolution is no longer the apparent limiting factor, but the lens resolution is. I currently use the fe200-600G, and while a nice lens, the 600GM has far higher resolution and cropping power (judged by raw samples). Any meaningful upgrade now has to come from the lens. Olympus made a terrific 150-400mm lens, and I would love to put that on the A1, but I have no need for the m4/3 system to increase pixel density or enhance my digital cropping latitude. In any case, I see the Olympus 150-400 as a very good 150-400 zoom lens with 500mm by use of the built in TC. I definitely don't see it as a 300-800mm lens.
 
I have never pulled the trigger on the Sony 600/4 because of the size and weight. The Olympus Pro 300/4 is a very sharp and fast focusing lens on the OM1. So much smaller and lighter than A1 with Sony 600/4. Looking forward to trying this combo more (mostly used the OM1 in travel so far).
Just use 300 mm focal length and crop with the FF camera, and image quality will be equal to the MFT camera with the 3oo mm lens. About same weight and bulk too, but way more sensor area available for everything else.
You are right in debating the strange comparison between the OM1 with 300/4 lens and the A1 with 600/4 lens. I don't really understand why this is still always done. A 300mm f4 lens is a 300mm f4 lens and a 600mm f4 lens is a 600mm f4 lens, all regardless of what sensor area size and sensor resolution you place behind it. It makes no sense to me to compare these two lenses.
people who try to make those comparisons aren't looking at equivalent photos, which in this case is 300/4 on mft = 600/8 on ff.

so of course an effective 600/8 lens is going to be lighter.
Same entrance pupil (75 mm) and a longer tube - and the lens should be lighter?
What is equivalence and why should I care?: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
 
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