How is this image Out of Focus?

This is the closest object/subject bias Nikon has built-in that I mentioned in the firmware update thread. I'm pretty sure you didn't have the box anywhere near those shoes though. Z's AF-C also tends to be a bit too sensitive/active on still subjects compared to OVF. I have to shoot and compose faster than I'm used to (within 2 seconds) or burst to make sure I get the shot.

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Joel Klein said:

So This image was shot using AF-S wide area large people

To my surprise The focus appears to be on the tip of shoes.

Looking at NX Studio, the red dot appears to be just above his eye's.

I'm confused...

See Screenshot from NX Studio

and the high quality jpeg untouched exported from XN studio




Nikon Z7ii - Z70-200 @70mm f/6.3

Click to expand...

I don't use this focus mode myself, but I believe that it's designed to focus on the nearest object in the "wide area." In this case, that was probably his feet.

Recommend using eye AF, or as I do, simply move the AF point over the area you want in focus.

--my hit rate with afc dynamic are pretty good
TJC

Joel Klein said:

So This image was shot using AF-S wide area large people

To my surprise The focus appears to be on the tip of shoes.

Looking at NX Studio, the red dot appears to be just above his eye's.

I'm confused...

Click to expand...

It is confusing. It's possible, as others suggested, that the AF system did what its algorithm told it to do (i.e. focus on a nearer object).

But it's also entirely possible that the system just malfunctioned on this shot. All AF systems malfunction once in awhile, in my experience (very extensive, with all major brands).

I've also several times seen defective products (usually lenses) produce intermittent focus errors. Also with multiple brands.

In those cases, discovering that there was a defect started exactly the way your problem is presenting -- i.e. I noticed a focus error that I could not explain. So, I went out and shot hundreds of images in conditions where I could eliminate other variables. If you shoot the same shot repeatedly, by the way, you'll also notice that there is some (typically very) small shot-to-shot variance, even when the AF system is working properly. That is not a defect or malfunction; it's just the imperfection of our universe.

But in the three cases that I'm thinking of (three different brands), I saw intermittent, but ongoing, significant focus misses -- i.e. out of a 500 test shots, I might see it 40-50 times. In one case, it was more like 30-50% of the time. The manufacturers could not explain it, but they replaced the lenses, and sure enough, that fixed it.

So anyway, long story short: don't discount the possibility of a defect. Some of them take a lot of testing to identify.

First of all, Thank you for the help.

I investigated further and found the camera was by mistake on AF-C (See picture. Thanks Nikon for NX Studio..)



Still, in this AF mode the AF box is small enough while the shoes are way out of that box.









(Never mind the f20...)

This image is just one minute later. and the Focus is correct.

I've noticed that AF-C can pulse and flutter quite a bit, even when the subject is moving very slowly. Shots taken during a pulse will definitely be out of focus.

peripheralfocus said:

Joel Klein said:

So This image was shot using AF-S wide area large people

To my surprise The focus appears to be on the tip of shoes.

Looking at NX Studio, the red dot appears to be just above his eye's.

I'm confused...

Click to expand...

It is confusing. It's possible, as others suggested, that the AF system did what its algorithm told it to do (i.e. focus on a nearer object).

But it's also entirely possible that the system just malfunctioned on this shot. All AF systems malfunction once in awhile, in my experience (very extensive, with all major brands).

I've also several times seen defective products (usually lenses) produce intermittent focus errors. Also with multiple brands.

Click to expand...

I think you are exactly right. AF systems have been around long enough that people expect perfection with every shot. The same for metering systems. We're dealing with machines. No matter how good they are, errors are going to happen from time to time. No manufacturer guarantees 100% perfection.

Then, you have those intermittent problems with cameras and lenses. As you explained, these issues can be very difficult to nail down. You only see it on occasion. Is it the camera? Is it the lens? Does it fall within the window of what should be expected as normal failures? What is that window anyway? Manufacturers aren't going to publish those figures. Without extensive and methodical testing, it can run you nuts. The more intermittent, the more difficult it is to identify the culprit.

peripheralfocus said:

In those cases, discovering that there was a defect started exactly the way your problem is presenting -- i.e. I noticed a focus error that I could not explain. So, I went out and shot hundreds of images in conditions where I could eliminate other variables. If you shoot the same shot repeatedly, by the way, you'll also notice that there is some (typically very) small shot-to-shot variance, even when the AF system is working properly. That is not a defect or malfunction; it's just the imperfection of our universe.

But in the three cases that I'm thinking of (three different brands), I saw intermittent, but ongoing, significant focus misses -- i.e. out of a 500 test shots, I might see it 40-50 times. In one case, it was more like 30-50% of the time. The manufacturers could not explain it, but they replaced the lenses, and sure enough, that fixed it.

So anyway, long story short: don't discount the possibility of a defect. Some of them take a lot of testing to identify.

Click to expand...

ALio said:

I've noticed that AF-C can pulse and flutter quite a bit, even when the subject is moving very slowly. Shots taken during a pulse will definitely be out of focus.

Click to expand...

Add to that the fact that most of us shoot in release mode when in AF-C and it becomes a fact of life that we'll experience a certain number of misses.

ALio said:

I've noticed that AF-C can pulse and flutter quite a bit, even when the subject is moving very slowly. Shots taken during a pulse will definitely be out of focus.

Click to expand...

You know, at one point I feel confused. So let's get the difference between AF-C and AF-S sorted.

While on AF-C, The focus would continually search and reposition? or its only continually searching when I'm actually focusing by half pressing or back button focus?

While on AF-S holding the back button focus would focus once and until I don't lift my finger and press again it wont focus again. Correct?

Digital Shutterbug said:

Joel Klein said:

ALio said:

I've noticed that AF-C can pulse and flutter quite a bit, even when the subject is moving very slowly. Shots taken during a pulse will definitely be out of focus.

Click to expand...

You know, at one point I feel confused. So let's get the difference between AF-C and AF-S sorted.

While on AF-C, The focus would continually search and reposition? or its only continually searching when I'm actually focusing by half pressing or back button focus?

Click to expand...

In AF-C, it is continually trying to focus as long as you are giving it a command to do so. That means a half press of the shutter release, or pressing the BBF programmed button. In the default mode from the factory, the camera will always fire a shot when you press the shutter release in AF-C. It doesn't check for a properly focussed image. It simply shoots. This can be changed in your setup.

Digital Shutterbug said:

While on AF-S holding the back button focus would focus once and until I don't lift my finger and press again it wont focus again. Correct?

Click to expand...

In AF-S, the camera will attempt to focus, then stop when it thinks it is focused (or just can't focus and times out). Hold the button, release the button, it doesn't matter. It maintains that focus setting, regardless of movement of the subject or the camera. After obtaining focus, if the subject or camera moves, you'll get out of focus shots. When you again press the button, it will focus once again. Then maintain that new setting. Wash, rinse, repeat. At any given time, shoot as many pictures you want. They will all be at that fixed focus distance. Good or bad. The camera can be setup to not fire a shot if it doesn't think it is focussed. There are multiple settings for this with interactions between those settings. It can be a bit difficult to understand those interactions.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

So basically in AF-S holding on the BBF 'after' the focus was acquired would not nothing.
VS. AF-C
Thanks. Gota save my user to AF-S like I had on the Z6ii.

Joel Klein said:

Joel Klein wrote
So basically in AF-S holding on the BBF 'after' the focus was acquired would not nothing.
VS. AF-C

Click to expand...

I don't have my camera in front of me. But I think that if using BBF and af-s, and the camera is set to it's default focus priority, if you stop pressing the back focus button, the shutter may not fire.

j_photo said:

j_photo said:

Joel Klein wrote

So basically in AF-S holding on the BBF 'after' the focus was acquired would not nothing.

VS. AF-C

Click to expand...

I don't have my camera in front of me. But I think that if using BBF and af-s, and the camera is set to it's default focus priority, if you stop pressing the back focus button, the shutter may not fire.

Click to expand...

I think you are right with all factory defaults. I have mine set differently. There are some settings that can be really confusing and cause the camera to operate differently than what you might expect. It's probably best for a new user to leave the settings alone until he/she becomes familiar with the camera.

Digital Shutterbug said:

ALio said:

I've noticed that AF-C can pulse and flutter quite a bit, even when the subject is moving very slowly. Shots taken during a pulse will definitely be out of focus.

Click to expand...

Add to that the fact that most of us shoot in release mode when in AF-C and it becomes a fact of life that we'll experience a certain number of misses.

Click to expand...

This is a most annoying trait. As Op has found you can fire off 6 frames and only 4 will be in focus as the AF module has gone walk-about!!

Digital Shutterbug said:

In AF-S, the camera will attempt to focus, then stop when it thinks it is focused (or just can't focus and times out). Hold the button, release the button, it doesn't matter. It maintains that focus setting, regardless of movement of the subject or the camera. After obtaining focus, if the subject or camera moves, you'll get out of focus shots. When you again press the button, it will focus once again. Then maintain that new setting. Wash, rinse, repeat. At any given time, shoot as many pictures you want. They will all be at that fixed focus distance. Good or bad. The camera can be setup to not fire a shot if it doesn't think it is focussed. There are multiple settings for this with interactions between those settings. It can be a bit difficult to understand those interactions.

Click to expand...

I've found in AF-S that the AF will wander too, the frustrating bit is it's sometimes hard to see what it actually focused on.

At least in AF-C it will move focus to the most shiny moving thing in the scene, particularly if it's just outside the focus box

Hi,

I found Thom Hogan's e-guide and also Steve Perry's e-guide very helpfull to learn how to use the Z AF system and to understand its possibilities.

See Secrets To The Nikon Autofocus System: Mirrorless Edition – Backcountry Gallery Web Store (bcgwebstore.com)

and Nikon Z System Books | Thom Hogan (zsystemuser.com)

Just a guess. Did you notice in any other pictures your lens was front focusing in AF-C?

j_photo said:

j_photo said:

Joel Klein wrote

So basically in AF-S holding on the BBF 'after' the focus was acquired would not nothing.

VS. AF-C

Click to expand...

I don't have my camera in front of me. But I think that if using BBF and af-s, and the camera is set to it's default focus priority, if you stop pressing the back focus button, the shutter may not fire.

Click to expand...

That's not correct. Just tried it with my Z7. AF-S mode. Camera set to focus priority. I focus on something until I get the green dot. I release AF-On button, I press the shutter and the shot is taken. I try it again. Get the green dot. I release the shutter and move the camera until the AF-S box is over something that is now out of focus. I press the shutter. The shot is still taken. It doesn't matter where the AF box is, my Z camera seems to ignore the focus priority setting of the camera entirely.

This actually seems to be a change from how it worked on a DSLR. What would happen on those cameras was that if you had the camera set to AF-S with focus priority you could focus on something (green box) and then let go of AF-On. If you pressed the shutter button the shutter would fire if the box was still over something something that was in focus. If you recomposed so that the AF box was now over something that was out of focus the shutter would not trip.

This was a popular feature for some photographers. You could prefocus for a certain distance. You could then hold the shutter button down and the shutter would not trip. Until something moved into the prefocused distance. For example, a bird or animal. When a subject moved into the focus zone the shutter would now trip.

I remember a big uproar years ago when Nikon changed this behavior. I don't remember if they ever "fixed" it.