Nikon and the Zfc

So not sure how this supports your theory that Nikon is lost without APSC lenses?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying more Z DX lenses wouldn't be desirable. I think it's obvious they would - personally I'd see the priorities as a compact WA zoom and a couple of true compact DX primes. I do think when DX and FX crossover in equivalence (eg. f2.8 DX zoom - f4 FX zoom) there is some merit in the FX-first strategy.

But, having said that, Nikon seem to have a strategy that addresses the majority of the APSC market which never buys beyond the kit zooms and not the 'enthusiast APSC' market. It is what it is. I suspect the Zfc will do more for Nikon sales in APSC than 5 more Z DX lenses would have done, simply because the enthusiast segment (unserved by Z FX) is small.
If the graph of ML by BCN is an indication, crop ML is still a relevant segment, due, obviously, to price level. I would consider a crop camera + lens, I like it compact. For that reason I stayed with DX, but I got the Sigma 17-50 f/2.8, stabilized, as the only alternative by Nikon was more expensive, larger, heavier and already an old design. When I tried the FX dslrs and the typical f/2.8 zooms, I didn’t like the size and weight, and gave up upgrading.

When ML started to appear, I saw that as my likely way to FF, but, still, the f/2.8 zooms are pretty bulky. So, Either I go for FF with f/4 zooms + a couple of fast primes (but Nikon’s fast primes are all pretty bulky), or I stay with APS-C, and then Nikon is not the way to go, as, as you say, for them it’s not about a full system, they’ll never launch a fast zoom or fast dedicated primes, which could be smaller and ligher than the FF similars.

So my frustration with Nikon, meaning I may eventually move to another brand.
 
That report was also disastrous for one other brand.....errr the one with the fullest, most established range of APSC lenses....Fuji. So not sure how this supports your theory that Nikon is lost without APSC lenses?

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If you plot a trend line through those, you can see that Fuji is actually on a slight upwards trend. It only looks bad because Fuji, for some reason, is very cyclical in their sales volumes. The real losers, based on the above data, are Nikon and Olympus.
My point stands, snce the debacle in APS-C dslr market was exactly because kits dedicated to those who only buy one lens cannot compete with smartphones. The fight for beginners who would like something better than smartphones require something else. That market has shrunk and competition at the bottom is fiercer than ever. Both Canon and Sony have more to offer than Nikon in ML, as do Oly and Fuji.
So why has Fuji's market share collapsed? They have a lot more APSC lenses than either Canon or Sony?
It hasn't. Their sales volumes are cyclical and in aggregate, Fuji is on a slight upwards growth trend. Their share of mirrorless sales is more or less flat, which is to be expected as the market matures with lower end full frame offerings becoming available.

Ironically, part of Fuji's problem *is* lenses. Fuji makes 32 XF lenses and 7 of them are over 100mm in focal length. A whopping 2 lenses are longer than 300mm and one of them focuses worse than using Nikon FX telephotos with the Fringer F to XF autofocus adapter. Two of the lenses are wider than 14 mm and they are both $1,000+ zooms. Fuji zooms are also, for the most part, really poor value for money. If I were buying into Fuji today, there are maybe two zooms on the system that can hang with the equivalent m4/3 or full frame options: the XF 16-55 f/2.8 and XF 50-140 f/2.8. Then there's the headache of processing X-Trans files.

There are only so many buyers you can attract when you're line-up is overwhelmingly primes in the moderate wide to portrait focal lengths.
Interesting points, thanks for the feedback. It is true, Fuji shows a clearly upward cyclical pattern/trend. Not bad for a company for which digital photography is not their mainstay business.

--
Renato.
OnExposure member
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
My point stands, snce the debacle in APS-C dslr market was exactly because kits dedicated to those who only buy one lens cannot compete with smartphones. The fight for beginners who would like something better than smartphones require something else. That market has shrunk and competition at the bottom is fiercer than ever. Both Canon and Sony have more to offer than Nikon in ML, as do Oly and Fuji.
So why has Fuji's market share collapsed? They have a lot more APSC lenses than either Canon or Sony?
It has not actually, check the longer term trends.
Nikon need something really good and differentiated there. Maybe the Zfc is it, it is clearly designed with young Japanese population in mind, but then the young person goes to a store, looks at it, asks for a lens and how many options they have, compared to the other brands?
I don't know. The volume is still in APSC, so that must be a big driver of share. I certainly think the Zfc will be a differentiator. On the lens question, it's hard to know. Maybe the problem is not having a sub$500 entry level? Maybe the Japanese market favors the little soapbar models that Canon and Oly have but not Nikon?
They used to compete neck to neck with Canon for the leadership in that market, just check it for a few years back, not that far back. What went wrong? Sleeping in the laurels of having a large share of a supposedly secure, inexpugnable, dslr, especially APS-C, market. When they woke up, it had evaporated. I was one of the few that, 5-6 years ago, here, asked Nikon for a quick move into ML technology. They had even a head start, with the very competent 1 system AF, but they just boycotted tgat system, again, never producing a decent fast zoom for it. I was a very early adopter, payed premium for a V1 and two lenses, to never see the needs of enthusiasts attended to.

They kept that idea of colorful J soapbar line for young girls, the same failed idea that I see creeping into the Zfc launch. It is frustrating for Nikon users, especially enthusiasts who like it compact.
Re myself, I’m neither a beginner nor a prospective APS-C buyer, especially if I plan to stay with Nikon, for there is nothing there which attracts me (except the Zfc body). As you say, a Z5 and an f/4 zoom or a few primes are a better alternative. But it’s been there for some time and Nikon sales are not reacting. It’s worrying.
I agree, it is worrying.
For me, it is getting from worrying to fully desperating.
 
Oh come on. I just bought a Nikon FE just to have on my shelf for looks (Nikon Z fc be damned). Now onto the real business at hand, going out and shooting my oh so superior Z5. Okay none of this true as I am a Leica man. But if I was a Nikon man that's what I would do. (used to me a Nikon man).
 
. There is more than enough ancillary proof that initial sales are brisk.
The camera is a fact, it will be in our hands in a month. All these complaints are just noise. Why don't we see what reviewers and members think before we bury Nikon
 
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. There is more than enough ancillary proof that initial sales are brisk.
The camera is a fact, it will be in our hands in a month. All these complaints are just noise. Why don't we see what reviewers and members think before we bury Nikon
Who is complaining about sales ? Who is complaining about the Zfc per se ?

I certainly wish that Nikon has produced an incredibly successful best seller.

"The camera is a fact, it will be in our hands in a month." Of the 3 trillion messages on the subject nobody denied this I believe.

"Why don't we see what reviewers and members think before we bury Nikon" Sure. I 100% agree and, if I may, I add:

Why don't we see what reviewers and members think before we bury Nikon with frenetic applause because it has produced a camera that is available in salmon pink.
 
I’m out.
What perhaps matters most is how many are in.
It's pretty clear that MANY are in.

Robert
How would you know ? You work for Nikon ?
I have a family member at Nikon, but that's NOT how I know.

Robert
Ah. Ok. Indeed, this allows for insights into Nikon sales.
The real question will be if this is a flash in the pan or if it will have sustained sales volumes. The last thing Nikon needs is a pile of inventory that they have to fire sale like the Z50 and Z5.
 
Hi,

I have an FE on my shelf. Not for looks per se, as it still functions. It gets out once in a while with B+W film. Sitting next to it is a deceased FA after it lunched the fourth shutter. And an F4 that worked when retired but doesn't power up now. And a Pentax 6x7 which also still works when I want a larger B+W negative.

I can't see buying. Zfc to sit on my shelf. I could move the P67 elsewhere I suppose. But it seems like a waste of a Zfc to be a showpiece.

And I can't imagine I'd prefer the Zfc over the Df. And, even if I did then the Df would have to push the P67 aside. But, honestly, there's no way the Zfc would displace the Df given all the screwdriver operated AF and AF-D lenses I have. Plus the fact that I also have all these manual focus Nikkors.

Say, anyone know how a Z handles a 45mm f2.8 GN lens with that unique way it changes the aperture opening whilst focusing? That's one I didn't try those times I had rented a Z. It's fun to stick an early strobe handle flash on the Df and use the little 45. ;)

Stan
 
I’m out.
What perhaps matters most is how many are in.
It's pretty clear that MANY are in.

Robert
How would you know ? You work for Nikon ?
I have a family member at Nikon, but that's NOT how I know.

Robert
Ah. Ok. Indeed, this allows for insights into Nikon sales.
The real question will be if this is a flash in the pan or if it will have sustained sales volumes. The last thing Nikon needs is a pile of inventory that they have to fire sale like the Z50 and Z5.
well, it may turn out that the color advantage may translate into sustained sales volume (this is sarcastic)
 
They used to compete neck to neck with Canon for the leadership in that market, just check it for a few years back, not that far back. What went wrong? Sleeping in the laurels of having a large share of a supposedly secure, inexpugnable, dslr, especially APS-C, market. When they woke up, it had evaporated.
I wondered for quite a while: how can Canon achieve that while Nikon has:

1: The best all-around FF DSLRs like D850, and APS-C like D500.

2: The best in-class long primes.

3: The biggest mount size for its Z system with the best in-class f2.8 trinity and f1.8 primes etc.

4. Better sensors equipped, better color out of the camera etc. and etc.

It almost proved you don't need be the best to survive well.
 
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It’s more of a want it rather than need it camera and why not. There is way too much convoluted “logic” and handwringing about gear. This camera has some visual and tactile fun built into it. I don’t need it but I’m tempted anyway…
 
Canon has had and still has the largest market share of any of the companies. Canon has had a much greater market share than Nikon for quiet a few years now. It mainly competes with itself while looking over its shoulder at Nikon. Neither Sony, Olympus or Fuji come close.

The Zfc will sell well, because of retro and size. I use both Canon and Nikon. I am thinking of getting one to complement my Nikon D5500.
 
They used to compete neck to neck with Canon for the leadership in that market, just check it for a few years back, not that far back. What went wrong? Sleeping in the laurels of having a large share of a supposedly secure, inexpugnable, dslr, especially APS-C, market. When they woke up, it had evaporated.
I wondered for quite a while: how can Canon achieve that while Nikon has:

1: The best all-around FF DSLRs like D850, and APS-C like D500.

2: The best in-class long primes.

3: The biggest mount size for its Z system with the best in-class f2.8 trinity and f1.8 primes etc.

4. Better sensors equipped, better color out of the camera etc. and etc.

It almost proved you don't need be the best to survive well.
Sometimes, things go out of fashion or just a bit too late in waking up.

Psion 3 series

Palm Treo

Blackberry

=

Apple iPhone
 
They used to compete neck to neck with Canon for the leadership in that market, just check it for a few years back, not that far back. What went wrong? Sleeping in the laurels of having a large share of a supposedly secure, inexpugnable, dslr, especially APS-C, market. When they woke up, it had evaporated.
I wondered for quite a while: how can Canon achieve that while Nikon has:

1: The best all-around FF DSLRs like D850, and APS-C like D500.

2: The best in-class long primes.

3: The biggest mount size for its Z system with the best in-class f2.8 trinity and f1.8 primes etc.

4. Better sensors equipped, better color out of the camera etc. and etc.

It almost proved you don't need be the best to survive well.
Sometimes, things go out of fashion or just a bit too late in waking up.

Psion 3 series

Palm Treo

Blackberry

=

Apple iPhone
Timing is critical. Well Apple, "the last rat standing".
 
The real question will be if this is a flash in the pan or if it will have sustained sales volumes.
As a step up from smart phones at around £1000 with a lens the Zfc is likely to have sustained sales.

Several photographers I know who started post film decided they have wider photographic ambitions than is possible with a smart phone - good though smart phones are for what they can do well.

Those who have been photographers for less than about 15 years are unlikely to have used film.

Nikon is aiming to attract photographers who want something with wider capabilities than a smart phone - because this is a good way to attract smart phone users, with ambitions to do more photographically, to theNikon system.
 

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