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Playing dirty (how the RP will be crippled)

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Battersea said:
rrccad said:
Battersea said:
rrccad said:
trungtran said:
Oh dear, they gonna make the RP like a M. Crippling specs is the Canon way.

People will still buy it if the prices is right. M5 and M6 replacement is looking less likely of making an appearance now.
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the EF-M lineup is operated out of a entirely different division in Canon. the M's are run out of the Powershot group, not the EOS group.

which is why all their model numbers start with PC, instead of DSC
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The EF-M are called EOS cameras though. I agree though different category of cameras.
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it's not that they are a different category, they are made by an entirely separate group.

what happens with the EOS R has no bearing on what happens to the EOS EF-M
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Yeah, that is interesting to know. What Powershot influences do the EF-M cameras have?
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the firmware is powershot not the DSLR firmware.
 
liopleurodon said:
David Hull said:
Lower price generally implies a more limited feature set. I cant quite figure where the term "crippled" is justified (or even makes sense).
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Crippled is used when a manufacturer limits the functionality of a devices firmware to not include features they have already developed and the hardware is capable of supporting. It doesn't cost any more to load software features so why not offer them? Its holding back instead of pushing the envelope. Its choosing to not offer features that the camera is well capable of and involve little effort to provide. It's limiting features to force artificial segmentation.
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This is not exactly the case on the RP of which we only know rumors and not real specs. Even is these specs were true, a $2300 body ® has better specs than a $1600 body.

But a nice example of a crippled device is an iOS device: Apple makes fantastic fast and snappy hardware but with an OS which limits the use of that hardware. Apple limits there OS even so that a $1800 iPad Pro has the same limitations as a $300 consumer iPad.
Canon does it not make that bad with the R or RP or any other DSLR.
 
Battersea said:
trungtran said:
Oh dear, they gonna make the RP like a M. Crippling specs is the Canon way.

People will still buy it if the prices is right. M5 and M6 replacement is looking less likely of making an appearance now.
Click to expand...
Why, they are different products/categories?
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Yes they are different, but they are starting to overlap. Notice the use of the

Canon LP-E17 battery.

The same one used in the M5 and M6/M3.

If you look at the specs of the RP it can be easily a M5 with the only difference being the Mount and the sensor.
 
trungtran said:
Battersea said:
trungtran said:
Oh dear, they gonna make the RP like a M. Crippling specs is the Canon way.

People will still buy it if the prices is right. M5 and M6 replacement is looking less likely of making an appearance now.
Click to expand...
Why, they are different products/categories?
Click to expand...
Yes they are different, but they are starting to overlap. Notice the use of the

Canon LP-E17 battery.

The same one used in the M5 and M6/M3.
Click to expand...
it's also used on the rebels, it's not that big of a deal.
trungtran said:
If you look at the specs of the RP it can be easily a M5 with the only difference being the Mount and the sensor.
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the RP and the M5 have little in common, especially ergonomically.
 
mermaidkiller said:
But a nice example of a crippled device is an iOS device: Apple makes fantastic fast and snappy hardware but with an OS which limits the use of that hardware. Apple limits there OS even so that a $1800 iPad Pro has the same limitations as a $300 consumer iPad.
Canon does it not make that bad with the R or RP or any other DSLR.
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That's not an example of crippling. Crippling would be if Apple withheld OS features from the cheap iPads the hardware was capable of supporting. They don't do that. Each device gets all the features its hardware can support. It's one of Apple's more admirable traits.

A very easy argument can be made that iOS itself is very restrictive and I'd be one of the first making it. But Apple doesn't hold back software from cheaper products to differentiate more expensive ones. Nor does Sony. Canon does.
 
Battersea said:
Critical Thinker said:
007peter said:
Battersea said:
Back2M wrote: Since those rumored specs went out the window as 24mp is false, one has to wonder what Canon is going to cripple on the EOS RP to justify the $800 savings.
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Chinese has a saying: one part money; one part product.

Translation: You get what you Pay For

You cannot accuse Canon of "crippling" when canon is selling RP cheaper. Again, one part money; one part product.

In fact, my only regret is canon didn't cut further:
  • I would eliminate EVF entirely (useless or videoshooter)
  • more plastic to saved weight
  • I want that EVF-less (400g) FF camear for vlogging
  • making it the first sub $1000 ($999) FF camera
To each their own, but accusing Canon as crippling when the camera is $800 less seem rather GREEDY to me.
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Why are you so triggered? The world crippling is correct. Manufacturers intentionally cripple entry level models, thats why they are cheaper. OP is just speculating what will be crippled in this cheaper Canon body.

Also no way any manufacturer is going to make a sub $1000 FF camera yet. They can do it, but they just started their first gen FF models. They need to milk it as much as they can, like Sony has been doing for years. In a few years I can see Sony finally cave in and release a basic entry level FF, not because they want to, but because the fierce competition has pushed them into doing so.
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Sony generally doesn't play at the lower end of any market. Some products drop in price like the original 7 has and end up there but Sony usually only introduces higher end products. A Sony CEO famously admonished an employee about this way back in the Walkman era.
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Sony also hasnt had the competition of 3 competitors in the now crowded FF mirrorless market. If they keep on making only expensive high end FF models, they will just be giving money away to Canon/Nikon/Pana when they release entry level models to compliment their high end models. Sony would be pretty stupid to not compete. They already have the best body tech, just cripple it and put it in a new shell.
 
Critical Thinker said:
Battersea said:
Critical Thinker said:
007peter said:
Critical Thinker said:
Back2M wrote: Since those rumored specs went out the window as 24mp is false, one has to wonder what Canon is going to cripple on the EOS RP to justify the $800 savings.
Click to expand...
Chinese has a saying: one part money; one part product.

Translation: You get what you Pay For

You cannot accuse Canon of "crippling" when canon is selling RP cheaper. Again, one part money; one part product.

In fact, my only regret is canon didn't cut further:
  • I would eliminate EVF entirely (useless or videoshooter)
  • more plastic to saved weight
  • I want that EVF-less (400g) FF camear for vlogging
  • making it the first sub $1000 ($999) FF camera
To each their own, but accusing Canon as crippling when the camera is $800 less seem rather GREEDY to me.
Click to expand...
Why are you so triggered? The world crippling is correct. Manufacturers intentionally cripple entry level models, thats why they are cheaper. OP is just speculating what will be crippled in this cheaper Canon body.

Also no way any manufacturer is going to make a sub $1000 FF camera yet. They can do it, but they just started their first gen FF models. They need to milk it as much as they can, like Sony has been doing for years. In a few years I can see Sony finally cave in and release a basic entry level FF, not because they want to, but because the fierce competition has pushed them into doing so.
Click to expand...
Sony generally doesn't play at the lower end of any market. Some products drop in price like the original 7 has and end up there but Sony usually only introduces higher end products. A Sony CEO famously admonished an employee about this way back in the Walkman era.
Click to expand...
Sony also hasnt had the competition of 3 competitors in the now crowded FF mirrorless market. If they keep on making only expensive high end FF models, they will just be giving money away to Canon/Nikon/Pana when they release entry level models to compliment their high end models. Sony would be pretty stupid to not compete. They already have the best body tech, just cripple it and put it in a new shell.
Click to expand...
I mean they still manufacture and sell the A7II, based on rumored specs it seems like that will be plenty of competition for the RP.
 
Rawpaul said:
David Hull said:
Thoughts R Us said:
With most products you get what you pay for. It's very common for every manufacturer to differentiate between price points based on features.

It's such a silly narrative to think of this as something nefarious or wrong.

To the OP, I would ask if the company for which he works delivers the same features in all products and services regardless of price?
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There are always some who expect to get something for nothing, I guess. Good luck with that.
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You are absolutly right David.

They want a Ferrari for the price off a Kia...
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Yep, the next thing we'll see from these guys is that Microsoft should be giving Office or Adobe should be giving us Photoshop for $5 because the only value they are supplying is that of the media it ships on.

--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/drhull
SmugMug: http://davidhull.smugmug.com/
 
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4thnebula said:
I assume it is not true IBIS which I want in my next EOS R.
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Yea, I'd like to know what that is too. I don't think you'll see IBIS in this thing. Canon doesn't seem to be in too much of a hurry to launch that. They will, though, eventually.
 
rrccad said:
trungtran said:
Oh dear, they gonna make the RP like a M. Crippling specs is the Canon way.

People will still buy it if the prices is right. M5 and M6 replacement is looking less likely of making an appearance now.
Click to expand...
the EF-M lineup is operated out of a entirely different division in Canon. the M's are run out of the Powershot group, not the EOS group.

which is why all their model numbers start with PC, instead of DSC
Click to expand...
They still call them EOS, though. It is interesting what they did to the EOS M5 with the M50. There is a place where they didn't limit features and the M5 got killed.
 
wootpile said:
All the negs don't matter. Canon will have a winner with this one if rumored specs and price are correct

Flipscreen, IS, nice body (if rumor previous are correct), nice price, nice color tech (matters to me), FF, huge brand, .. I'm buying.
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Might be a nice replacement for my M5.
 
Paul B Jones said:
Totally agree with your satire. The only thing crippled in the camera world are the minds of people who confuse product differentiation based on price with a nefarious plot against them personally.
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Couldn't have said it better.
 
Back2M said:
Back2M said:
.... I'm sure many folks haven't forgotten the 6DII DR debacle, well, it's back if they haven't fixed it. They probably haven't (fixed it).
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What 6DII debacle? Apparently some here still have their heads buried in the sand with the 2017 6DII sensor having less DR than the 2012 6D sensor, and less than some Canon APS-C cameras. Even further, some have said that a 6DII sensor in the RP would be a good thing. Well, good for reducing costs, yeah. Good in that sense.

--
>> I'm already lovin' my Canon 35IS lens! <<
 
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Abu Mahendra said:
Back2M said:
Abu Mahendra said:
.... I'm sure many folks haven't forgotten the 6DII DR debacle, well, it's back if they haven't fixed it. They probably haven't (fixed it).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
What 6DII debacle? Apparently some here still have their heads buried in the sand with the 2017 6DII sensor having less DR than the 2012 6D sensor, and less than some Canon APS-C cameras. Even further, some have said that a 6DII sensor in the RP would be a good thing. Well, good for reducing costs, yeah. Good in that sense.
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The only debacle regarding the 6DII was the overreaction of the you tubers and reviewers.

Real customers like the camera. We don't know sales figures but I imagine it's done pretty well for Canon.

This RP will do well in the market, regardless of the expected howling of the usual suspects.
 
Well stated! You need to start a dedicated topic with that thought.
 
You’re in apsc territory here, so great price point, they only need cheaper and smaller lenses to go with it.

I’d take this anyday over the Olympus omd em1x
 
rrccad said:
Back2M said:
Since those rumored specs went out the window as 24mp is false, one has to wonder what Canon is going to cripple on the EOS RP to justify the $800 savings.

A few things come to mind that Canon could have up their sleeve to play dirty.
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why is it playing dirty?

you want a more featured camera, #$(*&#$ pay for it.
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+1.

David
 
4thnebula said:
I assume it is not true IBIS which I want in my next EOS R.
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"While the previous product stabilizes images with a gyroscope, the new product takes into account the data on the amount of camera shake obtained from the image data collected by the CMOS sensor. Canon calls this function "Dual Sensing IS."

Loading…

image-sensors-world.blogspot.com

This function only works if you have an image stabilized lens.
 
eliehbk said:
You’re in apsc territory here, so great price point, they only need cheaper and smaller lenses to go with it.

I’d take this anyday over the Olympus omd em1x
Click to expand...
Indeed. The RP appears to be made in mind for non-L lenses.

More will come. How soon, that's the question.
 
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