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Foliage images with Bayer (FF and APS C) and X-trans sensors

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KariP

KariP

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I'm using both - Canon cameras with Bayer sensors and Fujifilm with X-trans. X trans has not troubled me after my first Fuji X-E1 - then i did not have usable software in the beginning...

At the moment here are long discussions going on about x-trans "issues". People see worms and other stuff in Fuji images.

I have previously shot some images with foliage with different cameras , but this has not been a real scientific test. Places are different and light is not the same ... and so on. Anyway , some foliage to look at!

Exif info shows what camera is used and with a FF camera 6D i used Sigma 20mm f1,4 - the lenses are not quite equal - but the worms should be visible .

I used Capture One - very much the default settings and i did not play with special sharpening or noise reduction. Highlights are adjusted a bit - in all images

6D with 20 f 1,4 Sigma, X-E3 with 18-55 , 80D with 18-135 (not as sharp as the others)

Enjoy the foliage - tell me if you find worms ;-) - the lakeside image taken with X-E3 was perhaps most difficult - leaves reflecting light in bright sunshine. Look at the images in "full size"

X-E3 with a "kit lens" looks quite OK compared to a FF with an "Art" lens. And when i compare the weight of the systems .... that is why i travel with X-E3 and the zoom




X-E3 18-55


















6D with Sigma 20f1,4 / Art






80D 18-135






6D



--
Kari
I started SLR photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fujifilm X-E3 and the new 80D are my favourites - also 6D for landscapes and some portraits.
 
KariP said:
I'm using both - Canon cameras with Bayer sensors and Fujifilm with X-trans. X trans has not troubled me after my first Fuji X-E1 - then i did not have usable software in the beginning...

At the moment here are long discussions going on about x-trans "issues". People see worms and other stuff in Fuji images.

I have previously shot some images with foliage with different cameras , but this has not been a real scientific test. Places are different and light is not the same ... and so on. Anyway , some foliage to look at!

Exif info shows what camera is used and with a FF camera 6D i used Sigma 20mm f1,4 - the lenses are not quite equal - but the worms should be visible .

I used Capture One - very much the default settings and i did not play with special sharpening or noise reduction. Highlights are adjusted a bit - in all images

6D with 20 f 1,4 Sigma, X-E3 with 18-55 , 80D with 18-135 (not as sharp as the others)

Enjoy the foliage - tell me if you find worms ;-) - the lakeside image taken with X-E3 was perhaps most difficult - leaves reflecting light in bright sunshine. Look at the images in "full size"

X-E3 with a "kit lens" looks quite OK compared to a FF with an "Art" lens. And when i compare the weight of the systems .... that is why i travel with X-E3 and the zoom


X-E3 18-55






6D with Sigma 20f1,4 / Art


80D 18-135


6D

--
Kari
I started SLR photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fujifilm X-E3 and the new 80D are my favourites - also 6D for landscapes and some portraits.
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It's mainly in Lightroom where the "worms" or "watercolor effect" is present. Capture One actually does a good job with X-trans files which is one of the reasons I also use it :)
 
That last thread on "worms" is full and is no longer open for posting, so I hope to continue discussion here. I posted a few photos from my X100F that clearly exhibit the worms/watercolor effect and also are apparent even in the in-camera film simulation JPEGs (default settings). This is the photo demonstrated the effect most clearly.

Velvia:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61280016

Acros, Provia, Astia:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61280067

RAW read by Lightroom and exported JPEG with no modifications:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61280088

I'm hoping to try a few different software options (Darktable, RawTherapee) later tonight to see if anything helps them. The trial version of Iridient certainly didn't do much.

I'll also try to get some comparison shots with one of my Bayer sensor cameras (Sony A9 or Canon T4i) see how each sensor interprets the image.

In my observations, the X-Trans sensor seems to lose the plot a bit with brightly illuminated green or light-green densely packed foliage. It seems to hold out much better if the same foliage is equally lit or in the shade.
 
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JayPhizzt said:
KariP said:
I'm using both - Canon cameras with Bayer sensors and Fujifilm with X-trans. X trans has not troubled me after my first Fuji X-E1 - then i did not have usable software in the beginning...

At the moment here are long discussions going on about x-trans "issues". People see worms and other stuff in Fuji images.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
........
JayPhizzt said:
It's mainly in Lightroom where the "worms" or "watercolor effect" is present. Capture One actually does a good job with X-trans files which is one of the reasons I also use it :)
Click to expand...
Yes - and i think the x-trans discussion is partially and usually pointless. Should we just discuss the problems of some software. And how to avoid bad results with for example LR.

It is not very logical thinking if some photographers think , that Fuji should start using Bayer sensor array because LR has some problems - or had in some older versions

I'm not really defending X-trans because there is no reason to - it just seems to work well in Fujifilm cameras, with my software collection and my computer works fast with RAF files. And the IQ is good. And of course cameras with Bayer sensor can also capture great images ...

I can not discuss more - nothing to say
 
slightly out of focus, soft, or camera shaken images that are oversharpened show this, sometimes but only when viewed on a computer screen with less than 200ppi, at 100%.

Look at it using a high DPI screen, or print, and the problem is not there. Magic.

You can complain all you want, I'll just enjoy my camera and take pictures.
 
Look, this horse has been beaten to death endlessly here already. Before starting another thread, please take a little time to search the forum and get educated on what's already been covered here over the last 2-3 years at least. Then, if you need further guidance or clarification, there are plenty of experts that can help.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod
 
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Jerry-astro said:
Look, this horse has been beaten to death here and continuing this conversation in yet another thread, IMHO, is pretty well pointless. Please consider searching the forum and you will find countless discussions on this very topic and a bounty of information and opinions to look at.
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rwbaron said:
Jerry-astro said:
Look, this horse has been beaten to death here and continuing this conversation in yet another thread, IMHO, is pretty well pointless. Please consider searching the forum and you will find countless discussions on this very topic and a bounty of information and opinions to look at.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Right on Jerry! Definitely caramel.
 
KariP said:
rwbaron said:
Jerry-astro said:
rwbaron said:
Jerry-astro said:
Look, this horse has been beaten to death here and continuing this conversation in yet another thread, IMHO, is pretty well pointless. Please consider searching the forum and you will find countless discussions on this very topic and a bounty of information and opinions to look at.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod
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IMO this is like arguing about what flavor ice cream is best.

Bob
Click to expand...
Well, duh. Caramel. Next topic... :-)

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod
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Sorry, Mackinac Island Fudge and I don't care what you say. :-D

--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
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Liquorice or salty liquorice ice cream is IMO just great. Finns (or some of us) like to drink even vodka that has strong salty liquorice taste and black colour - salmiakkikossu is the name. I do not recommend it really.

Pistachio is also good - it has a nice green colour - almost like fresh foliage. Perhaps it is perfect stuff for testing X-trans and greens. Tastes much better
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OK guys keep it on topic...Creamy Bokeh.

Sal
 
Enough already. Go take some pictures, please!

Have fun!

Makinac Island fudge is unbelievable!! Then again, any fudge from up north, hey der, is awesome!!

Edit: can it be locked now?
 
Last edited:
Zefah said:
I posted a few photos from my X100F that clearly exhibit the worms/watercolor effect and also are apparent even in the in-camera film simulation JPEGs (default settings).

In my observations, the X-Trans sensor seems to lose the plot a bit with brightly illuminated green or light-green densely packed foliage. It seems to hold out much better if the same foliage is equally lit or in the shade.
Click to expand...
I took a look at your RAW. Could you try turning the in-camera Sharpness setting down to 0 and seeing if that helps?
 
Yep...caught up with you here.

To some degree or another worms exist in images from various sensor types and sizes.

I've seen them in images from Sony a7 type cameras in both foliage and photos of somebody's stoney driveway.

Your just digging up a tired old subject that's not worth the airtime anymore.

When the sensor in my Xpro2 is capable of delivering images like these, I'm very happy that my camera is equipped with an X-trans sensor...

93661605860541fb8ffdaaa0a2f0a5c8.jpg

a4a155e9a9034440878e5e51b5c1da0c.jpg

db9fe042dab445c1949472e6dfaf6869.jpg

9a4d7c10d22d469e87cdefbcd7cc1767.jpg

The camera did all the work...all jpeg and no pp, apart from a slight crop in one image...

Admittedly not foliage shot...still...I really couldn't care less about worms!!

Dave.
 
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