The return of the old guy.

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Why is this in the m43 forum?

--
I believe in science, evolution and light. All opinions are my own. I'm not compensated for any of my posts. Can you honestly say that?
Why not?
Yup. Every now and then we just 'chew the cud' - it may be about health issues, it may be more about a trip than the photos.

It is what forum chums do sometimes.

You don't have to participate.
 
Am I right in thinking that there is a certain revival of analogue photography?
Possible.

The Vinyl Revival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival) was something unexpected that happened.

In the US, sales went from 1 million in 2007 to 14 millions in 2017. Suprisingly, more than half of the vinly buyers are young adults under 25. It's still a niche in the music market, but it's a true revival.

A similar tendency could well happen with photography, and recent prices hike of analog cameras (I've noticed it too) could be an indicator.

It would still be a niche market, but you're right, old stuff from the 70-80's could suddenly worth more than digital stuff from 5 years ago.

Interesting :-)

--
Cheers,
Frederic
http://www.azurphoto.com/
The vinyl record renaissance is a phenomenon I find difficult to understand as a consumer of these dammed things when they were the main support for music.

I remember in the eighties those horrible thinner than thin, often pre-warped records, that were just so easy to damage. I was glad to see them go to what I thought was the dustbin of history.

I bought a CD player the day after hearing one at a friend’s house. It was great to hear music without eggs frying in the background.

The Vinyl rebirth is born out of pure marketing hype. Just for starters you need a very good system to even attempt to hear any difference or the alleged “warmer” sound. God knows what one hears on the crappy record decks/amps I see being sold in our big box stores.

The problem with CD’s is the quality of the mastering. Some of the older remasters to CD were/are terrible.

I have it on good authority from a musical consultant to one of Italy’s leading Opera houses that the sound one gets from well mastered disks like those of ECM are much better than one can find on vinyl. The “warmer” vinyl sound is in fact distortion. In fact most new Jazz CD’s I buy have fantastic sound, the compressed loud sound on Pop CD’s is another thing, just deliberately poor mastering made for Low Fi sources.

Here is an interesting link.

With exception of large format film, I see little point in using film these days. I wish that I could have had a great digital camera when I took these shots . The freedom to shoot far more would have gotten me even more good pictures.

--
http://nigelvoak.blogspot.it/
https://momenti-indecisivi.blogspot.it/
I have no interest in vinyl nor in film photography.

It was just a general observation of two similar absurd tendencies, revival of old stuff for hipsters or nostalgics, which make prices of old outdated stuff suddenly rise and being more expensive than modern stuff.
But it is interesting to try to understand why. It is interesting to try to understand how the marketing people play with our minds.
I find this absolutely hilarious in the context of a gear forum where most call for constant updates :-)
I think this stuff is a reaction against the constant update culture.
I don't know about that, for me anyway.

Bought turntable stock from the manufacturer. Within a year, I had replaced the counter balance on the arm with a custom engineered one, shimmed the height of the arm to change the vertical tracking angle, changed the platter, changed the power supply, fitted a dual pulley to now use two belts for better speed stability, and imported a new sub platter from Groovetracer in the US which also involved changing the bearing that the thrust pad of the platter spins on.

We vinyl addicts just love to constantly tweak and upgrade.

Now, all this talk has really put me in the mood for a session. Where did I put that bottle of Penderyn?
 
I've thought a lot about this, because I'm right in the age of carrying around a film camera and being called a hipster. ;-) I don't really take offense, as "hipster" means different things to different people, anyway. Personally, I got my first non-disposable camera (OM1) from my uncle when I was 22, who bought his new back in the day. I took that with me to both Iceland and the Grand Canyon, and got a good feel for it. Since then, I've gone digital, but a couple years ago I got back into film.

I take the long view on this. In photography, we had film from birth to the 90's, then digital began to take over. Now that digital is well-established and common for today's kids, who DIDN'T grow up knowing about film photography, they want to discover it for themselves. We all know the ways it's different: a different process of taking images, a different feel.

It's like having different tools in your workshop. Power tools are fantastic for making clean, precise mortises, but you can do the same with a decent set of chisels for a lot cheaper, and you'll get a different experience out of it. For those learning on film and moving to digital, DSLRs are a huge timesaver. For those, brought up on digital, film opens up new looks and techniques.

This place in photographic history is unique, in that we have both chemical and digital sensors in common use with lenses. Seems like film and digital are more in equilibrium with each other. Film developing is still going strong (if more expensive than it used to be) and digital camera technology is still moving forward (though at a slower rate than even 5 years ago, and with an additional platform in mobile tech).

The next big leap in technology (microlenses?, lenseless cameras?, laser-eye-based organic circuitry?) will add yet another tool to our toolbox to compete for our money and time. And money.
 
"Was in a pub enjoying a meal with my family recently. Two tables away, sat two girls, probably about 18-20. I wouldn't normally notice this kind of thing....except one of them was loading a film into a Minolta XD7, a camera I shot with myself. I suppose she could have been doing a photography course or something but it just struck me as really unusual. I had the urge to say something, but quickly repressed it - an old guy striking up a conversation with two young girls might raise a few eyebrows!"

Not on the beach in Naples, Florida.
 
I would pit a £1000 turntable against a £1000 CD player any day.
I have a good turntable/cartridge and a good CD player. The speakers make the biggest difference.
Actually, it's the SOURCE that's most important, followed by amp and pre-amp, then speakers.

I once bought a great pair of speakers (Apogee Caliper Signature full-range ribbon speakers) and had to replace all my electronics, because they revealed all the weaknesses of my amp/pre-amp combo. NAD pre-amp and some well regarded 200 watt per channel American amp (can't believe I forgot!). For electronics I go all British now, LINN, NAIM, Creek. Not the "pinnacle" but solid and musical.

I believe the differences are born in the mastering studio. ECM sound recordings are a good measure of what can be done with CD.
It really depends on the producer and engineers and recording site. Although, I have some excellent ECM recordings, but not all are great. LINN, Glossa, Harmonia Mundi…
It is worth remembering that jazz and rock concerts are relayed to the audience through less than perfect amps and speakers.
To say the least!
Having seen and heard first hand the sound gear used for amplified music, some of the discourse on esoteric hi fi when used for amplified music makes me scratch my head a little.
Exactly.
 
Am I right in thinking that there is a certain revival of analogue photography?
Possible.

The Vinyl Revival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival) was something unexpected that happened.

In the US, sales went from 1 million in 2007 to 14 millions in 2017. Suprisingly, more than half of the vinly buyers are young adults under 25. It's still a niche in the music market, but it's a true revival.

A similar tendency could well happen with photography, and recent prices hike of analog cameras (I've noticed it too) could be an indicator.

It would still be a niche market, but you're right, old stuff from the 70-80's could suddenly worth more than digital stuff from 5 years ago.

Interesting :-)
 
Am I right in thinking that there is a certain revival of analogue photography?
Possible.

The Vinyl Revival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival) was something unexpected that happened.

In the US, sales went from 1 million in 2007 to 14 millions in 2017. Suprisingly, more than half of the vinly buyers are young adults under 25. It's still a niche in the music market, but it's a true revival.
Same goes for the old (vintage) receivers; the prices at least quadrupled in the past several years, and it is almost like an investment these days. Although I must admit I absolutely love the clarity and the tone that some of them do produce; Sansui and Marantz especially.

The thing with vinyl is that it is a pure analog sound, and some of us will like it more than the digital. Especially when it comes to jazz and classical recordings. People hear and compare, and as the Hi-res is taking over (there is a difference), there is just nowhere for CD's to advance to; they give the sound that is too sterile (to my ear at least), too perfect, and is oftentimes audibly less open.
A similar tendency could well happen with photography, and recent prices hike of analog cameras (I've noticed it too) could be an indicator.
Unlikely. The sensor technology is way too far from the film chemistry. It may happen so that the tech will revert and step back a bit, or take some different direction altogether, but going back to film - I don't think so.
It would still be a niche market, but you're right, old stuff from the 70-80's could suddenly worth more than digital stuff from 5 years ago.
For collectors. Just like the original Apple can be worth more than it was sold to the first buyer for. That is not for the every day's use though.
Interesting :-)
 
Am I right in thinking that there is a certain revival of analogue photography?
Possible.

The Vinyl Revival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival) was something unexpected that happened.

In the US, sales went from 1 million in 2007 to 14 millions in 2017. Suprisingly, more than half of the vinly buyers are young adults under 25. It's still a niche in the music market, but it's a true revival.

A similar tendency could well happen with photography, and recent prices hike of analog cameras (I've noticed it too) could be an indicator.

It would still be a niche market, but you're right, old stuff from the 70-80's could suddenly worth more than digital stuff from 5 years ago.

Interesting :-)
 
Am I right in thinking that there is a certain revival of analogue photography?
Possible.

The Vinyl Revival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival) was something unexpected that happened.

In the US, sales went from 1 million in 2007 to 14 millions in 2017. Suprisingly, more than half of the vinly buyers are young adults under 25. It's still a niche in the music market, but it's a true revival.

A similar tendency could well happen with photography, and recent prices hike of analog cameras (I've noticed it too) could be an indicator.

It would still be a niche market, but you're right, old stuff from the 70-80's could suddenly worth more than digital stuff from 5 years ago.

Interesting :-)

--
Cheers,
Frederic
http://www.azurphoto.com/
The vinyl record renaissance is a phenomenon I find difficult to understand as a consumer of these dammed things when they were the main support for music.

I remember in the eighties those horrible thinner than thin, often pre-warped records, that were just so easy to damage. I was glad to see them go to what I thought was the dustbin of history.

I bought a CD player the day after hearing one at a friend’s house. It was great to hear music without eggs frying in the background.

The Vinyl rebirth is born out of pure marketing hype. Just for starters you need a very good system to even attempt to hear any difference or the alleged “warmer” sound. God knows what one hears on the crappy record decks/amps I see being sold in our big box stores.

The problem with CD’s is the quality of the mastering. Some of the older remasters to CD were/are terrible.

I have it on good authority from a musical consultant to one of Italy’s leading Opera houses that the sound one gets from well mastered disks like those of ECM are much better than one can find on vinyl. The “warmer” vinyl sound is in fact distortion. In fact most new Jazz CD’s I buy have fantastic sound, the compressed loud sound on Pop CD’s is another thing, just deliberately poor mastering made for Low Fi sources.

Here is an interesting link.

With exception of large format film, I see little point in using film these days. I wish that I could have had a great digital camera when I took these shots . The freedom to shoot far more would have gotten me even more good pictures.

--
http://nigelvoak.blogspot.it/
https://momenti-indecisivi.blogspot.it/
I have no interest in vinyl nor in film photography.

It was just a general observation of two similar absurd tendencies, revival of old stuff for hipsters or nostalgics, which make prices of old outdated stuff suddenly rise and being more expensive than modern stuff.
But it is interesting to try to understand why. It is interesting to try to understand how the marketing people play with our minds.
Ha, that is the interesting point.
I find this absolutely hilarious in the context of a gear forum where most call for constant updates :-)
I think this stuff is a reaction against the constant update culture.
Possibly. Planned obscolescence has disgusted many people, and they are looking back when stuff was made to last.

Cameras from the last century like your old Pentax can still work flawlessly, when some cheaply made digital cameras die after less than 5 years use.

But the most interesting point is percieved planned obscolescence, when the customer feels that a perfectly working camera is outaded because a new model is out. This mindset has been implemented in our minds by maketing people, and propagated by reviewers, often calling a 2 years old camera "long in the tooth".
Yes, I agree, but...

I actually feel that forums such as this do a lot to push people towards new models, merely because the benefits of said new model are constantly discussed and brought to the forefront of people's minds
This marketing is very powerful. It has created the "fanboy" way of life, where simple customers becomes fierce defenders of a brand and so become agents of the marketing propaganda. This behavior is a fantastic free marketing for all brands, that can count on their milked customers to make free advertisement.
We live in a society where just about everyone we deal with, in terms of purchasing goods and services, are out to fleece us if we let them.

Yes, I would love an E-M1 ii or maybe a G9, especially since I am reading about them all the time here.

Ultimately though, it is down to me to realise that I do not need the additional features and to come to the decision that I should stick to my older model because it meets my current needs.

Obviously, as you rightly point out, many have difficulty doing that, otherwise we wouldn't see so many very lightly used high end cameras for sale on the used market.

I think, ultimately the phrase, "caveat emptor" should apply here.
Unfortunately, many people don't realize that their minds have been played.

The hope is that some countries are beginning some kind of fight against planned obscolescence, like in France where a law is at work against it.

In that context, using an old Pentax or listening an old vinyl can be percieved as pretty refreshing, until marketing people make it the new trend ;-)
--
Cheers,
Frederic
http://www.azurphoto.com/
 
Here in NYC you'll see a few younger people and hipsters carrying film cameras. Whether than constitutes an revival or SLR as jewelry is anyone's guess.
Just another statement of some kind. Seriously, no photographer who needs to produce these days will shoot film, unless they are a very small niche provider. Nothing would get me back to film save for the occasional nostalgia.
There are many people hanging on and there is a revival, but there is a question as to how deep and wide it goes. B&W film is still selling enough to keep producing and there has been talk of bringing back famous colour films as well.

I started a few years ago with film when I realised I could develop and scan myself and am getting deeper into it now. Just bought an enlarger and will start printing. Will see where it goes. It is time consuming to develop the film and then print on your own so this is not about convenience. It is about a kind of art form, I suppose.
I am tempted to get my 4x5 working again. It would be a scanned film routine for me I think.

Using the movements on this camera was great fun and the results were almost grain free.
Here is a page from someone who does all his photography using medium format slide film, then scanning the result.

I think he uses an Ebony 4x5 camera, sadly they have gone out of business.

The antithesis of M43.
 
I've been tempted to re-buy a copy of my first "serious" cam, a Nikomat. got one used for $20 in 1969. Loved it.
A Nikkormat was my first camera. My brother bought a couple in Thailand in 1971 while on R&R from Viet Nam, and my parents bought one from him to give to me for my Christmas, birthday, and H.S. graduation present. I still have it. Here it is on a chess board with half of the chess set I made out of the old-style aluminum film cans (I can still remember what those smelled like!).

52962f3621714811be056dcbd76bbedc.jpg

Heh, for kicks I just weighed it with the 50mm f/1.4, and it is 1,116 grams - what a pig! My G9 with 25mm f/1.4 is only 881 grams (with a small tripod plate attached)!

--
Brent
 
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Here in NYC you'll see a few younger people and hipsters carrying film cameras. Whether than constitutes an revival or SLR as jewelry is anyone's guess.
Just another statement of some kind. Seriously, no photographer who needs to produce these days will shoot film, unless they are a very small niche provider. Nothing would get me back to film save for the occasional nostalgia.
 
I learned to shoot on my Dad's Pentax Spotmatic SP in the late 60s. Man, that was primitive even though the built in meter was considered revolutionary at the time. And low light was tough to get right. It was a good learning experience but I surely won't be going back to film. I like chimping to see my mistakes and correct them right away.

On the subject of "old guys", I recommend the movie "Kodachrome". There's a great scene where the old dying war-horse photographer meets some of his fans gathered at the last lab that processes Kodachrome on the last day they are accepting exposed film and he says “We're all so frightened by time, the way it moves on and the way things disappear. That's why we're photographers. We're preservationists by nature. We take pictures to stop time, to commit moments to eternity. Human nature made tangible.”
 
I learned to shoot on my Dad's Pentax Spotmatic SP in the late 60s. Man, that was primitive even though the built in meter was considered revolutionary at the time. And low light was tough to get right. It was a good learning experience but I surely won't be going back to film. I like chimping to see my mistakes and correct them right away.

On the subject of "old guys", I recommend the movie "Kodachrome". There's a great scene where the old dying war-horse photographer meets some of his fans gathered at the last lab that processes Kodachrome on the last day they are accepting exposed film and he says “We're all so frightened by time, the way it moves on and the way things disappear. That's why we're photographers. We're preservationists by nature. We take pictures to stop time, to commit moments to eternity. Human nature made tangible.”
I just watched "Kodachrome" last night and enjoyed it, though I think the writer and director missed some opportunities. For instance, I really wanted to see the last photos taken by the Ed Harris character during that road trip.

The closing credits were nice, though, featuring photos from Steve McCurry's "last roll of Kodachrome" project.
 
I just watched "Kodachrome" last night and enjoyed it, though I think the writer and director missed some opportunities. For instance, I really wanted to see the last photos taken by the Ed Harris character during that road trip.

The closing credits were nice, though, featuring photos from Steve McCurry's "last roll of Kodachrome" project.
I threw away my last 10 rolls of Kodachrome. :-(
 
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I learned to shoot on my Dad's Pentax Spotmatic SP in the late 60s. Man, that was primitive even though the built in meter was considered revolutionary at the time. And low light was tough to get right. It was a good learning experience but I surely won't be going back to film. I like chimping to see my mistakes and correct them right away.

On the subject of "old guys", I recommend the movie "Kodachrome". There's a great scene where the old dying war-horse photographer meets some of his fans gathered at the last lab that processes Kodachrome on the last day they are accepting exposed film and he says “We're all so frightened by time, the way it moves on and the way things disappear. That's why we're photographers. We're preservationists by nature. We take pictures to stop time, to commit moments to eternity. Human nature made tangible.”
Almost watched that last weekend but my daughter vetoed it... it's on my to watch list now!
 
I learned to shoot on my Dad's Pentax Spotmatic SP in the late 60s. Man, that was primitive even though the built in meter was considered revolutionary at the time. And low light was tough to get right. It was a good learning experience but I surely won't be going back to film. I like chimping to see my mistakes and correct them right away.

On the subject of "old guys", I recommend the movie "Kodachrome". There's a great scene where the old dying war-horse photographer meets some of his fans gathered at the last lab that processes Kodachrome on the last day they are accepting exposed film and he says “We're all so frightened by time, the way it moves on and the way things disappear. That's why we're photographers. We're preservationists by nature. We take pictures to stop time, to commit moments to eternity. Human nature made tangible.”
I just watched "Kodachrome" last night and enjoyed it, though I think the writer and director missed some opportunities. For instance, I really wanted to see the last photos taken by the Ed Harris character during that road trip.

The closing credits were nice, though, featuring photos from Steve McCurry's "last roll of Kodachrome" project.

--
Jim Salvas
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
Totally agree. Wanted to see the photos of the girl in the RV (Caravan for you left side drivers) from the trip. I thought that was totally a "Kodachrome" moment. Plus, I thought they were going to do the curated show as the ending instead of the love connection.

Best quote - "Happiness is overrated". I loved Ed Harris in that role - totally believable.
 

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