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darktable 2.4.0
- Thread starter sankos
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Does the Intel HD620 GPU support OpenCL? Darktable has been optimized for OpenCL. See above in this thread for a demo video - an order of magnitude difference.
Anyhow, I read that Darktable's best noise reduction technique is to click Denoise (profiled). On my laptop with GTX 1050 this is instantaneous, and much easier than fiddling with chroma and luminosity sliders in RawTherapee. Also I clicked Lens Profile (Fuji 18-55) and color fringing completely disappeared, instantly.
This sucker is fast, at least on Linux.
I didn't understand how this would help.
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Yes, it supports OpenCL ver 2.1 and OpenGL ver 4.4
Yes, tried it and although not exactly slow, even for my D750 (which has great high ISO capability) the results were horrible.
From DT 2.4 manual - "This versatile module can be used to achieve a variety of effects, such as: bloom, denoising, clarity, and local contrast enhancement. It works in the wavelet domain and parameters can be tuned for each frequency band separately."
Seemed to do the job for me earlier but when just trying it again it was buggy, locked up, etc and I had to close it. Restarted DT but same thing. Not getting a good feeling about DT at the moment.
Update: rebooted laptop and the equalizer works fine again. Not sure what happened but will keep an eye on it.
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It's very fast on my Windows desktop; if OpenCL is a big deal for Darktable, a discrete graphics processor might be very important.
I'll try to remember to install DT on my Inspiron 15 i5-6200U with integrated graphics sometime soon and see how well (or poorly) it works.
Even though this is an official 'final' release, I don't doubt there are bugs. For one thing, when I export an uncompressed 16-bit TIFF from DT it succeeds, but on exit crashes leaving a Darktable title bar that says "Not Responding" and has to be closed separately.
Too bad DT probably doesn't have Windows 10-style telemetry to automatically report this. If the problem also occurs on the Inspiron I'll see how hard it is to file an old-fashioned bug report. ;-)
P
Photographic Memory
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Are you serious? Sarcasm surely! Wow.
Good to hear.
That would be great. If you get around to it I'd be very interested in the results.
Yeah, it might be awhile before things get ironed out for Windows. It's still impressive they have it running as well as it does!
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His Dudeness
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Here are a few denoising presets I like to use and start from:
For normal, not too heavy chroma noise. Scale it, using the mix slider.
For normal and moderate luminance noise. Note the blend mode 'average' and the luminance mask. It also removes some chroma noise since the blend mode does not limit the module to the L channel. So, check if you need additional chroma noise removal in further instances or other modules.
For stronger luminance noise: Like the above, but switched mode to wavelets. You probably want to lower the opacity.
For stronger chroma noise. Try to keep the strength low to maintain color separation as good as possible. I like to use this as an additional instance to the above preset.
For normal, not too heavy chroma noise. Scale it, using the mix slider.
For normal and moderate luminance noise. Note the blend mode 'average' and the luminance mask. It also removes some chroma noise since the blend mode does not limit the module to the L channel. So, check if you need additional chroma noise removal in further instances or other modules.
For stronger luminance noise: Like the above, but switched mode to wavelets. You probably want to lower the opacity.
For stronger chroma noise. Try to keep the strength low to maintain color separation as good as possible. I like to use this as an additional instance to the above preset.
See what happens if you disable OpenCL in program settings. Some older AMD/ATI cards may need some tweaking to be done: see the relevant page in the manual.
Very nice presets, thanks. There is a slight difference of outcome when I use two separate instances of the profiled denoise module to separate luma and chroma NR. I prefer to use the luma NR instance first, and follow it up with the chroma instance. But do test this on your own files to see which order you like better.
For very high ISO it's also sometimes necessary to take care of hot pixels and correct black levels to avoid magenta darks: raw black/white point module; "take black level 0" up to the value of 10 or 15.
Also consider your demosaicing and sharpening settings: instead of the sharp AMaZE, look at the VNG4 algo, and modify your regular capture sharpening preset and sharpen locally where needed.
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Why matters
For very high ISO it's also sometimes necessary to take care of hot pixels and correct black levels to avoid magenta darks: raw black/white point module; "take black level 0" up to the value of 10 or 15.
Also consider your demosaicing and sharpening settings: instead of the sharp AMaZE, look at the VNG4 algo, and modify your regular capture sharpening preset and sharpen locally where needed.
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Why matters
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I did install DT on the Inspiron and reproduced the TIFF export issue, but didn't have the time or energy to check processing speed of different operations on it. Later today, perhaps.
What operations seemed to have particular difficulty on your PC?
Yes, I'm genuinely impressed with how good the port is, and how few features got left behind. I also like the many user settings choices; I wish some commercial software (hello, Affinity!) could do as well.
Darktable's many and detailed settings are appealing to my OCD tendencies. Must. Resist. Perpetual. Tweaks. To. Images.
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It's not an older GPU that your link refers to, it's a 'new this year', i7-7500U with integrated HD620 graphics. Monitoring GPU usage shows it bumps up as expected (but not maxed out) during adjustments but gets very slow at times, mainly during NR. The biggest offender is 'denoise profiled' where it takes up to 10 sec to render the image. Then everything after using that once takes just as long, even basic image zooming.
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Sounds good.
As mentioned above, 'denoise profiled' was the worst but any denoise function is very sluggish.
It actually has an incredible amount of flexibility and the possible tweaks are almost endless. So, as far as resisting...good luck with that! ;-)Yes, I'm genuinely impressed with how good the port is, and how few features got left behind. I also like the many user settings choices; I wish some commercial software (hello, Affinity!) could do as well.
Darktable's many and detailed settings are appealing to my OCD tendencies. Must. Resist. Perpetual. Tweaks. To. Images.
Do the luma and chroma sliders, as outline above by His Dudeness, affect the "Denoise (profiled)" action? I found that an easy way to improve Fuji X-Trans images, but just used the default settings. Lens Profile also helped greatly to eliminate color fringing. (Sorry, I should RTFM but haven't had time.)
Hmm... in RawTherapee I always do it the other way around, because that's how the options are ordered in the UL.
Thanks, that make sense.
That's right, Markesteijn 3-pass seems best for X-Trans.
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I tried Denoise (profiled) with some 24Mp X-Trans images in a Linux VM running on a old Xeon with Radeon GPU. Fraction of a second. So maybe this is an issue with the Windows port? Nobody else has reported it, that I've seen.
Printing? I heard (but don't plan to install it on Windows).
What impresses me, with Fuji X-Trans anyway, is how fast and easy it is, once you find the proper settings. I never tried Lightroom, but everybody says it is easy to use the defaults, however the defaults I see in the DPreview galleries always show too much high ISO noise, though dynamic range is often improved vs out-of-camera JPEG.It actually has an incredible amount of flexibility and the possible tweaks are almost endless. So, as far as resisting...good luck with that! ;-)Darktable's many and detailed settings are appealing to my OCD tendencies. Must. Resist. Perpetual. Tweaks. To. Images.
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The HD620 is quite slow. Maybe you should go back to Lightroom or something that doesn't take much advantage of GPU.
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gpu.userbenchmark.com
I'll try it on Linux (i7-6700HQ with HD530) later today or tomorrow and report what happens.
i use darktable with no an old i7 2ghz cpu, 8gb ram and ssd and hd4000 which doesnt work with cl and darktable.
I think its pretty snappy, only convertor faster that i have used is capture one on this system. Raw therapee isnt bad either.
In darktable some complex tool combinations can slow things down but with my typical settings its impressive.
His Dudeness
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Which chroma slider do you mean?
The last screen shot shows a profiled denoise instance, which is actually applied to the color channels only. Luminance is not affected. This is achieved by the blend mode.
The two other screen shots of the profiled denoise module both use the average blend mode, which affects color and luminance, hence chroma noise is als affected. Additionally a parametric mask is assigned to these module instance, which causes the effect to be proportionally to the lightness of the input values of the module.
Hmm... in RawTherapee I always do it the other way around, because that's how the options are ordered in the UL.
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Don't confuse things here. In darktable the order of modules in the ui indicates the order in which the modules are applied to the image. If module a is displayed below module b, you know that a is executed before b. Therefore the input data of b are influenced by a, if a is active.
Basically the order of modules is fixed in darktable. You can see the total order of all modules, if you click a second time on one of the module tabs.
Only within multiple instances of the same type of module the order can be influenced.
RawTherepee does not know the concept of multiple module instances. However, the order in which operations are executed is fixed as well, but I afaik you cannot see the order of execution in the UI. The order in which you pull sliders is not relevant--neither in RT nor in darktable.
VNG may look nice in high iso images. However, take care about artefacts on sharp/straight edges. This can really look weird.
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My first problem was finding a noisy image; almost everything I shoot either has plenty of light and/or isn't moving, so I use a tripod and slow shutter a lot. And anything bad gets ruthlessly tossed. So I created a synthetic noisy image of a blank TV screen with about four stops underexposure and DT auto-boosting the brightness to compensate.
But anyway...for the i5-6200U, integrated graphics, with image at 100%, without OpenCL 'denoise profiled' took about 1 second, with OpenCL enabled about 3 seconds.
So DT appears to be one fast puppy, Maybe it'd be slower on a more complex image?
Heh, as long as DT hangs on every exit after 16-bit TIFF exports, it shouldn't be too hard.It actually has an incredible amount of flexibility and the possible tweaks are almost endless. So, as far as resisting...good luck with that! ;-)Yes, I'm genuinely impressed with how good the port is, and how few features got left behind. I also like the many user settings choices; I wish some commercial software (hello, Affinity!) could do as well.
Darktable's many and detailed settings are appealing to my OCD tendencies. Must. Resist. Perpetual. Tweaks. To. Images.
Next time I see a sankos post I'll ask him how I can see the existing bug list and submit a report if it's not already been done--without setting up an account, etc. somewhere!
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The ones shown here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60569097
Am I wrong in thinking that you use "Equalizer" mostly for heavy"chroma noise, and "Denoise (profiled)" mostly for luminance noise? With non-local means for regular luminance noise, and Wavelets for heavy luminance and chrome noise.
Aha, I see what parametric means here.
Thanks for that.
Wow, I thought the order in RawTherapee was shown on the left, in the Undo list.
LOL!
I had similar problems because Fuji X-T20 has fairly low noise profiles, although the DPreview sample gallery contains some appropriate low-light cat pictures.
You could try sample images from a 1" sensor model such as the Panasonic LX10, but these would be irrelevant for your own activities. In any case, you have DxO PhotoLab, and a camera that it supports, so Darktable (etc.) is not mandatory for you, as it is for me.
This morning I was wondering, should install Lightroom 7-day trial on a Macbook Pro, and waste 7 days of my life learning about it? The way I phrase that question give the answer. Seven days seems way too short for a trial.
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