darktable 2.4.0

[sankos]

The Haze Removal module can be found in the Correction Group of modules (section 3.4.4.16). The defaults are pretty aggressive; my defaults reduce the strength to 0.20 from the default 0.50. Also, you can use blending modes to affect colour or tone only and also parametric masking (e.g. you can affect shadows or midtones only) -- I haven't used ClearView in DxO nor Dehaze in Lr, but I'd dare to say you've got much more control (as usual in dt) over the dehazing process.

I found it. My original difficulty was that I failed to notice the scrollbar on far right.

Seems to work well, but it's hard to judge because I'm not familiar with Darktable. In one image I tried (link below) I could not match the color saturation and noise reduction of the out-of-camera JPEG.

https://3.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS6000x4000~sample_galleries/7251932144/5130863041.jpg

In that image you could be more aggressive with your haze removal settings but combine that with a simple luminance mask which is targeting shadows. It should work well because all the shadows are equally hazy.

P.S. I believe JPEG export must be done from the "lighttable" view, not the "darkroom" view.

Once you set your export recipe in the lighttable view, you can use the Ctrl-E shortcut within the darkroom mode for a quick export of individual files. Batch exporting is easier in lighttable's grid rather than from the filmstrip, but the keyboard shortcut method is what I use for individual files in other raw converters anyway (the problem is that Lr uses Ctrl-Shift-E, but it didn't take long for me to get used to the dt shortcut).

 

[sankos]

Darktable is a very powerful editing suit, but not for beginners.

I just revisited it. Amazed how clean it renders RAW files!

But you are right about "not for beginners" to a point. I now find it a lot more intuitive compared to RawTherapee, but there are some 'Modules' that are not active by default. Denise had to be added, which in itself offers multiple "versions" (raw denoise, denoise - bilateral, profiles, non-local means). That's gonna take some getting used to. Especially as I wasn't able to zoom in far enough to the Photo I chose. Nevertheless I did manage to achieve favorable results using the 'denoise (profiled)'.

One mouse middle-click should take you to 100% view, the second one to 200%, and the third one gets you back to fit view.

As for profiled denoising: try this style, only I'd modify the blending mode to HSV color for chroma NR and to HSV lightness for luma NR. You can vary the layer opacity and use parametric blending, e.g. to target shadows and leave NR out of highlights.

The issues I faced where with export. Finally found out how to do it, and it reminded me why I never pursued it before, then I now recall, was unable to ever find out how to Export.

First set your export recipe in the Lighttable view, but then export with the Ctrl-E shortcut from the Darkroom mode.

This time I hit Export, didn't realize it was working in the background so after hitting Export 4 times I ended up with 4 Tifs, each at 130MB all in the same folder.

I need to have my ProPhoto Profile (I know DigiDog would correct my terminology there). I don't use AdobeRGB or sRGB. Please, how to use ProPhoto as Rendering Profile. Also do I export as Percrptual or Relative Colorimetric?

You need to copy your ProPhotoRGB.ICM file to this path on a Windows machine:

C:\Program Files\darktable\share\darktable\color\out

You'll need to create the "color" and the "out" subfolders within the second "darktable" folder.

Once you copy your icm profile over there, restart dt and your profile should be visible in the "output color profile" and the export modules .

You can softproof the effect of both Perceptual and the Relative Colorimetric intents within the darkroom mode (but you should have a calibrated monitor for that to work as intended). There's also the gamut check warning which works even without you having a calibrated display. Generally speaking, it shouldn't matter if you output to a huge colour space like ProPhoto RGB, but softproof when you intend to print, or when outputting to sRGB. I tend to default to RelCol, but if there are a lot of highly saturated colours in the photo, I'd softproof to see whether Perceptual works better.

 

[Photographic Memory]

Darktable is a very powerful editing suit, but not for beginners.

I just revisited it. Amazed how clean it renders RAW files!

But you are right about "not for beginners" to a point. I now find it a lot more intuitive compared to RawTherapee, but there are some 'Modules' that are not active by default. Denise had to be added, which in itself offers multiple "versions" (raw denoise, denoise - bilateral, profiles, non-local means). That's gonna take some getting used to. Especially as I wasn't able to zoom in far enough to the Photo I chose. Nevertheless I did manage to achieve favorable results using the 'denoise (profiled)'.

One mouse middle-click should take you to 100% view, the second one to 200%, and the third one gets you back to fit view.

As for profiled denoising: try this style, only I'd modify the blending mode to HSV color for chroma NR and to HSV lightness for luma NR. You can vary the layer opacity and use parametric blending, e.g. to target shadows and leave NR out of highlights.

The issues I faced where with export. Finally found out how to do it, and it reminded me why I never pursued it before, then I now recall, was unable to ever find out how to Export.

First set your export recipe in the Lighttable view, but then export with the Ctrl-E shortcut from the Darkroom mode.

This time I hit Export, didn't realize it was working in the background so after hitting Export 4 times I ended up with 4 Tifs, each at 130MB all in the same folder.

I need to have my ProPhoto Profile (I know DigiDog would correct my terminology there). I don't use AdobeRGB or sRGB. Please, how to use ProPhoto as Rendering Profile. Also do I export as Percrptual or Relative Colorimetric?

You need to copy your ProPhotoRGB.ICM file to this path on a Windows machine:

C:\Program Files\darktable\share\darktable\color\out

You'll need to create the "color" and the "out" subfolders within the second "darktable" folder.

Once you copy your icm profile over there, restart dt and your profile should be visible in the "output color profile" and the export modules .

You can softproof the effect of both Perceptual and the Relative Colorimetric intents within the darkroom mode (but you should have a calibrated monitor for that to work as intended). There's also the gamut check warning which works even without you having a calibrated display. Generally speaking, it shouldn't matter if you output to a huge colour space like ProPhoto RGB, but softproof when you intend to print, or when outputting to sRGB. I tend to default to RelCol, but if there are a lot of highly saturated colours in the photo, I'd softproof to see whether Perceptual works better.

 

[sankos]

I just installed on my windows system to have a look : IMPRESSIVE !!!

My reaction was exactly the same when I first used dt a year ago. I had to learn how to set up a VM for Linux Mint just for that one purpose: to try the application people were so enthusiastic about. It's great that dt developers decided to support Windows, because having to abandon the whole photography software ecosystem for just one application is not an easy decision. Now darktable can co-exist with the other applications I like to use.

Color control seems great. Supported gear (lenses, bodies) seems quite extensive.

And as far as I get it, most tools can be applied with parametric masks, and masks defined in a toolbox can be reused within another toolbox.

Yes, it's really comparable with what you can do parametrically in Ps (!), and you have access not only to RGB channels but also to Lab, HSV, LCh... (without having to convert to those modes!).

Very powerful IMO : it gives me lust to investigate further but...

... the learning curve seem very steep Any easy tutorial to start with ? DT seems incredibly powerful but it is very highly technical.

See my post from a different thread (the old link to previous manual doesn't work, so here's the current one). Here's an additional, easy intro to dt by Shane Milton, and here's a small playlist from Julien Pons.

I'm still looking how to build a simple starting point preset that could be applied during import with a) autoexposure based on highlights b) auto levels c) contrast and vibrance enhanced.

The one Auto-button is not there (Exposure and Levels modules, however, do have an auto functionality) -- you pay for that functionality in applications like Lr, C1 or DxO. Having said that, it's pretty easy to establish your favourite starting point with a style, once you get to know the program. It all starts from your favourite ICC input colour profile -- I designed mine by means of DCamProf. That's the difficult part, but it's much easier with an application like Lumariver (see my previous post on this). Once you get past this hurdle, it's as easy to establish your processing style as in any commercial application.

If you ask me, the Auto button is great when you're starting out with an application, or if you work with a large number of files at the same time on a regular basis. But there's a price for all the behind-the-scene magic: you get to face things like camera profile hue twists, occasional chroma artifacts in highlights (when the auto clipping reconstruction gets it wrong), etc.

Besides, it lags on my i5 (3.6GHz) + 16GB and a Radeon R9 3Gb + SSD. Is it because of the Windows thing ?

The speed is good/comparable here when I use dt with Win8.1 or Linux Mint Cinnamon 18.3 (and that's on a system without a separate graphics card, just the integrated one). For speed issues you could look here.

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Why matters

 

[Austinian]

A stable version of darktable is here, in time for Christmas.

 

[Austinian]

I feel once you get used to Darktable, it will be great. At first, I felt that many controls were in an unexpected place, e.g. export JPEG. Also mouse middle-click for zoom-in, and again for over-zoom, is something where you need to read the manual.

I don't have a problem with the controls' setup; I've seen much weirder UIs in other editing software.

Right now, I'm trying to grasp some of the many processing options. It may be difficult to set up a really convenient workflow for routine use, but it's too early to draw conclusions.

Yes, reading the manual is helpful; I'm seeing some startup options that might be very useful. It looks like a gloomy day outside, so a good time to stay inside and play with software!

 

[sankos]

1. A better-flowing DAM, esp. Smart Collections and a faster keywording/tagging experience
2. Subjectively, it's easier to cull in Lr (Compare/Survey mode), but still I do that in my photo viewer before ingesting into a catalogue
3. A better Print module (the Windows version of dt doesn't have it)
4. Web and Book modules (does anybody use them?)
5. A two-monitors set-up is possible
6. Merge to Panorama
7. Match Total Exposures (e.g. for timelapses)
8. The AI Auto button in LR Classic
9. Smart Highlights and Shadows sliders, and the highlight protection philosophy of PV2012
10. Better Healing/Spot Removal (with spots visualization)
11. Brush auto-masking
12. The Alt-slide visualization for sliders like Sharpening Masking, Blacks, Whites, etc.
13. The auto Upright feature
14. A number of canned camera profiles to choose from
15. Better Lens Corrections (for my lenses)

regarding 1: It is possible to save presets for the "collect images" module in the lighttable. I'm not a LR user, but I think that may be quite close to the concept of "smart collections".

You're right, but Lr allows to filter according to some criteria that are not yet available in dt, e.g. all the files that were cropped to a specific ratio, etc. However, most useful criteria are already there.


Lr Smart Collections




dt collect images

regarding 7: IIRC the automatic mode in darktable's exposure module can be used for that. I don't do timelapses, but I think I read about this.

OK, I haven't explored this but that might work. Also the Levels module has the Auto mode.

regarding 13: Since darktable 2.2 there is the "perspective correction" module in the "correction group", which allows automatic perspective correction.

Yes, but it worked better on my test files with Lr. However, I'll need to test it more than I have to be conclusive about it (also, I'm on Lr5, but as reported Lr6 got better in this respect and I have no way of testing it against dt).

regarding 12 with respect to sharpening: You can set the blendmode of the sharpening moduel to "difference" to see how it affects the image. This, of course, is not as comfortable as using a hot key, but may help sometimes.

That's a good tip, thanks.

--
Why matters

 

[sankos]

[...] I doubt if it can actually replace DxO PhotoLab in my standard workflow, but I'm trying it with some unusually difficult images with the idea of using it for specific purposes.

I compared the two in another thread, but everybody has different requirements. PRIME and lens corrections are definitely a win for DxO, but for micro detail dt is better for my cameras (that's a caveat that gets frequently overlooked).

Besides, it lags on my i5 (3.6GHz) + 16GB and a Radeon R9 3Gb + SSD. Is it because of the Windows thing ? Short story : years ago, I switched from Linux to Windows approximately only for photo editing sofware, and it was globally (exept for photo editing) a huge regression. I would be happy to switch back to Linux (Mint is the current hype distro, right ?) if it was more efficient.

I find it quite fast on my i7-7800X, 32GB, GTX1080 Ti, SSD system so far, but I haven't done anything I'd expect to be very demanding. When I get around to it, I'll examine its performance characteristics in more detail.

That's a powerful machine, so if speed were an issue, it'd be software-, not hardware-related.

 

[sankos]

You're welcome n/t

 

[hobo]

[...] I doubt if it can actually replace DxO PhotoLab in my standard workflow, but I'm trying it with some unusually difficult images with the idea of using it for specific purposes.

I compared the two in another thread, but everybody has different requirements. PRIME and lens corrections are definitely a win for DxO, but for micro detail dt is better for my cameras (that's a caveat that gets frequently overlooked).

Besides, it lags on my i5 (3.6GHz) + 16GB and a Radeon R9 3Gb + SSD. Is it because of the Windows thing ? Short story : years ago, I switched from Linux to Windows approximately only for photo editing sofware, and it was globally (exept for photo editing) a huge regression. I would be happy to switch back to Linux (Mint is the current hype distro, right ?) if it was more efficient.

I find it quite fast on my i7-7800X, 32GB, GTX1080 Ti, SSD system so far, but I haven't done anything I'd expect to be very demanding. When I get around to it, I'll examine its performance characteristics in more detail.

That's a powerful machine, so if speed were an issue, it'd be software-, not hardware-related.

 

[Austinian]

[...] I doubt if it can actually replace DxO PhotoLab in my standard workflow, but I'm trying it with some unusually difficult images with the idea of using it for specific purposes.

I compared the two in another thread, but everybody has different requirements. PRIME and lens corrections are definitely a win for DxO, but for micro detail dt is better for my cameras (that's a caveat that gets frequently overlooked).

I'd be very interested in what settings you'd recommend to maximize micro detail, right down to the individual pixel level. As an unabashed pixel-peeper, that is a priority of mine.

Besides, it lags on my i5 (3.6GHz) + 16GB and a Radeon R9 3Gb + SSD. Is it because of the Windows thing ? Short story : years ago, I switched from Linux to Windows approximately only for photo editing sofware, and it was globally (exept for photo editing) a huge regression. I would be happy to switch back to Linux (Mint is the current hype distro, right ?) if it was more efficient.

I find it quite fast on my i7-7800X, 32GB, GTX1080 Ti, SSD system so far, but I haven't done anything I'd expect to be very demanding. When I get around to it, I'll examine its performance characteristics in more detail.

That's a powerful machine, so if speed were an issue, it'd be software-, not hardware-related.

As gaming-capable PCs go, it's nothing special in most ways, but for still-photo purposes it has been plenty fast enough for my needs. I'm hoping it will serve for several years at least.

This morning I promoted Darktable from the gaming/testing boot drive to the primary boot drive. Most editing applications I've tried get discarded quickly, but I think Darktable has potential for future use on at least some images.

 

[sankos]

In general, what is more important for darktable for Windows: # of cores, GHz, RAM, disk subsystem (e.g. good SSD), other?

I think Peter Budai would be the person to ask this question to (he's behind the Windows port).

Reading the relevant section of the manual and their blog posts, my impression is that dt developers have been investing quite a lot of time into the OpenCL support (dating at least as far back as early 2012, judging by their blog), which could indicate that a strong GPU is the way forward no matter the platform. From the core options section of the manual:

OpenCL scheduling profile

Defines how preview and full pixelpipe tasks are scheduled on OpenCL enabled systems. “default”: the GPU processes the center view pixelpipe and the CPU processes the preview pipe; “multiple GPUs”: both pixelpipes are processed in parallel on two different GPUs; “very fast GPU”: both pixelipes are processed sequentially on the GPU.

A strong CPU is definitely an asset for things like preview-generation, but GPU can take over if it's strong enough. All CPU cores seem to be busy when there's work to be done, so the more of them, the merrier you'll be as well

Another footnote from the manual:

You can at any time switch OpenCL support off and on; this will happen immediately. Depending on the type of modules you are using, you will notice the effect as a general speed-up during interactive work and during export. Most modules in darktable can take advantage of OpenCL but not all modules are demanding enough to make a noticeable difference. In order to feel a real difference, take modules like shadows and highlights, sharpen, lowpass, highpass or even more extreme equalizer and profiled denoise.

Having said that, I've got an i7 4470 CPU and use only integrated graphics. OpenCL is not used by dt, but I can't complain about the operational speed of darktable. Export times are comparable to non-PRIME DxO 11 (but slower than Lr5). However, I'm thinking of adding a separate GPU.

The system RAM footprint is even smaller than with RT, so it's very economical with that -- it's much less RAM-hungry than Lr, DxO or NX-D. They say a minimum of 4GB is necessary, and I don't think this is a problem for contemporary configurations.

--
Why matters

 

[Dannny1]

... the learning curve seem very steep Any easy tutorial to start with ? DT seems incredibly powerful but it is very highly technical.

There are useful videos from Harry Durgin, e.g:

 

[hobo]

[No message]

 

[sankos]

I'd be very interested in what settings you'd recommend to maximize micro detail, right down to the individual pixel level. As an unabashed pixel-peeper, that is a priority of mine.

Here are my (conservative) capture sharpening settings in the screenshot:


dt capture sharpening for Coolpix A

They are for a 16MP APS-C camera without an AA filter (Nikon Coolpix A). I use the AMaZE demosaicing with 1-step false colour smoothing.

Note the Lab lightness blending mode to avoid chroma halos, and some shadows/highlights sharpening attenuation with the Blend If sliders.

For comparison, here's a screenshot of my custom settings with DxO Optics Pro 11:


DOP11 capture sharpening

DOP11 uses deconvolution in its Lens Softness module but I've found that the demosaicing used by the program, plus deconvolution sharpening, create slight worming artefacts with my cameras (more subtle than what Lr does with X-trans, but still they're there), esp. visible in landscape photos -- that's why the Details slider is at zero. DOP default CA, PF and moire removals are global and kill red and blue colours, so that lips or eyes can get desaturated when they are sufficiently small in the frame. The DPR studio shot demonstrates this very well (e.g. The Beatles' clothing or playing cards details), so I don't use PF and moire removal, and set CA size to 2.

Note that capture sharpening in darktable has room for improvement since it's a classic USM algorithm (prone to haloing) -- RawTherapee allows me to use the R-L deconvolution algorithm which works very well with this camera. There's work being done on a new deconvolution sharpening for darktable, though, so we'll see how it goes.

--
Why matters

 

[CAcreeks]

... the learning curve seem very steep Any easy tutorial to start with ? DT seems incredibly powerful but it is very highly technical.

There are useful videos from Harry Durgin, e.g:

Yes, 43 minutes long.

It would help if someone could compile "weird things about Darktable" such as middle click, how to save JPEG, etc. A short list could be grokked in minutes.

 

[sankos]

Ah yes, he's the best, but his workflow is quite advanced to begin from, I think.

 

[ATP62]

Riley Brandt have made some good videos for beginners. Basic edits starts in video 3

 

[tokumeino]

I just installed on my windows system to have a look : IMPRESSIVE !!!

My reaction was exactly the same when I first used dt a year ago. I had to learn how to set up a VM for Linux Mint just for that one purpose: to try the application people were so enthusiastic about. It's great that dt developers decided to support Windows, because having to abandon the whole photography software ecosystem for just one application is not an easy decision. Now darktable can co-exist with the other applications I like to use.

Color control seems great. Supported gear (lenses, bodies) seems quite extensive.

And as far as I get it, most tools can be applied with parametric masks, and masks defined in a toolbox can be reused within another toolbox.

Yes, it's really comparable with what you can do parametrically in Ps (!), and you have access not only to RGB channels but also to Lab, HSV, LCh... (without having to convert to those modes!).

Very powerful IMO : it gives me lust to investigate further but...

... the learning curve seem very steep Any easy tutorial to start with ? DT seems incredibly powerful but it is very highly technical.

See my post from a different thread (the old link to previous manual doesn't work, so here's the current one). Here's an additional, easy intro to dt by Shane Milton, and here's a small playlist from Julien Pons.

I'm still looking how to build a simple starting point preset that could be applied during import with a) autoexposure based on highlights b) auto levels c) contrast and vibrance enhanced.

The one Auto-button is not there (Exposure and Levels modules, however, do have an auto functionality) -- you pay for that functionality in applications like Lr, C1 or DxO. Having said that, it's pretty easy to establish your favourite starting point with a style, once you get to know the program. It all starts from your favourite ICC input colour profile -- I designed mine by means of DCamProf. That's the difficult part, but it's much easier with an application like Lumariver (see my previous post on this). Once you get past this hurdle, it's as easy to establish your processing style as in any commercial application.

If you ask me, the Auto button is great when you're starting out with an application, or if you work with a large number of files at the same time on a regular basis. But there's a price for all the behind-the-scene magic: you get to face things like camera profile hue twists, occasional chroma artifacts in highlights (when the auto clipping reconstruction gets it wrong), etc.

Besides, it lags on my i5 (3.6GHz) + 16GB and a Radeon R9 3Gb + SSD. Is it because of the Windows thing ?

The speed is good/comparable here when I use dt with Win8.1 or Linux Mint Cinnamon 18.3 (and that's on a system without a separate graphics card, just the integrated one). For speed issues you could look here.

 

[sankos]

Glad to have helped.