Did I waste money on my Adobe RGB screen

AlanB1976 · Mar 1, 2016

Hey all

Firstly, please forgive my n00bness. I do photography as a hobby and unfortunately do not have the time I would like to really spend advancing it (and related post-processing).

I was looking for a new screen and bought myself the Dell u2713h as it met all the criteria and offered 99% of AdobeRGB (along with many good reviews). I thought “awesome, much better for post-processing my photos”. Now I realise my problem. I only print out a small fraction of photos that I take (I’ve got about 20 photos hanging up of the many thousands that have been taken over the years). The prime way I use them are via digital photo frames, TV, computer screensavers and various online means (including distributing to various family & friends). So, I end up saving all my pics (post-editing) as sRGB JPG to ensure they are the most compatible with all. The only time I would use AdobeRGB is during post-processing (but would end up saving as sRGB anyway for compatability) and if I actually print a photo (but even then, I would only use AdobeRGB if I printed at the same time as post-processing, else I end up saving the JPG, deleting the RAW and when I decide later I want to print the photo, I pull up the JPG and print in sRGB).

Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB? Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB? Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately? Or should I set everything to sRGB when doing that (which may be most of the time anyway)?

Sorry this is still all new to me. I've started reading up on it but it breaks my fragile little mind.

Thanks

Alan

AxelR · Mar 1, 2016

AlanB1976 said:
Hey all

Firstly, please forgive my n00bness. I do photography as a hobby and unfortunately do not have the time I would like to really spend advancing it (and related post-processing).

I was looking for a new screen and bought myself the Dell u2713h as it met all the criteria and offered 99% of AdobeRGB (along with many good reviews). I thought “awesome, much better for post-processing my photos”. Now I realise my problem. I only print out a small fraction of photos that I take (I’ve got about 20 photos hanging up of the many thousands that have been taken over the years). The prime way I use them are via digital photo frames, TV, computer screensavers and various online means (including distributing to various family & friends). So, I end up saving all my pics (post-editing) as sRGB JPG to ensure they are the most compatible with all. The only time I would use AdobeRGB is during post-processing (but would end up saving as sRGB anyway for compatability) and if I actually print a photo (but even then, I would only use AdobeRGB if I printed at the same time as post-processing, else I end up saving the JPG, deleting the RAW and when I decide later I want to print the photo, I pull up the JPG and print in sRGB).

Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB? Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB? Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately?

It depends on the software you use to display the image (has to be "fully color managed" and most image viewers aren't) and sometimes how said software is configured.

AlanB1976 said:
Or should I set everything to sRGB when doing that (which may be most of the time anyway)?

That's the safest bet. Less headaches and no rendering differences between your different apps, browsers etc.

AlanB1976 said:
Sorry this is still all new to me. I've started reading up on it but it breaks my fragile little mind.

Thanks

Alan

Billiam29 · Mar 1, 2016

AxelR said:
AxelR said:

Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB? Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB? Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately?

Click to expand...

It depends on the software you use to display the image (has to be "fully color managed" and most image viewers aren't) and sometimes how said software is configured.

To get a bit more specific, a fully color managed application like Photoshop will even allow you to have multiple files using different color spaces open at the same time and each will be displayed "correctly." For example I can make three documents in Photoshop using sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto. If I set my foreground color to 100% red (255,0,0), I can visually see Photoshop change the foreground color swatch in the toolbar as I click on each of the three documents.

Simon Garrett · Mar 1, 2016

AlanB1976 said:
Hey all

Firstly, please forgive my n00bness. I do photography as a hobby and unfortunately do not have the time I would like to really spend advancing it (and related post-processing).

I was looking for a new screen and bought myself the Dell u2713h as it met all the criteria and offered 99% of AdobeRGB (along with many good reviews). I thought “awesome, much better for post-processing my photos”. Now I realise my problem. I only print out a small fraction of photos that I take (I’ve got about 20 photos hanging up of the many thousands that have been taken over the years). The prime way I use them are via digital photo frames, TV, computer screensavers and various online means (including distributing to various family & friends). So, I end up saving all my pics (post-editing) as sRGB JPG to ensure they are the most compatible with all. The only time I would use AdobeRGB is during post-processing (but would end up saving as sRGB anyway for compatability) and if I actually print a photo (but even then, I would only use AdobeRGB if I printed at the same time as post-processing, else I end up saving the JPG, deleting the RAW and when I decide later I want to print the photo, I pull up the JPG and print in sRGB).

Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB? Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB? Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately? Or should I set everything to sRGB when doing that (which may be most of the time anyway)?

Sorry this is still all new to me. I've started reading up on it but it breaks my fragile little mind.

Thanks

Alan

The U2713H gets good reviews, and for good technical info see http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2713h.htm .

You've really two choices:

Use it in Adobe RGB factory mode (or better, calibrate/profile it yourself in custom mode, using something like an xrite i1 Display Pro calibration tool). In that case, you must use fully colour-managed software. You can work in any colour space - the colour management will make sure everything is converted to your monitor's colour space - but if you send to the web or to other people (or for a photo frame), convert to sRGB colour space (i.e. create a copy in sRGB after you've finished editing). Once you've figured out colour management, it's really quite easy (and IMHO saves time). Note that you really need to use a colour-managed web browser. Firefox, Safari and Chrome are colour managed, IE and Edge are not (not properly, anyway). Firefox is IMHO the best colour-managed browser.
Or use it in sRGB mode. You can then forget about colour management - just keep all images in sRGB all the time. But then you're not getting the benefit from your lovely wide-gamut monitor!

Whichever you choose, I'm sure you haven't wasted your money. However, if you use the monitor in it's wide-gamut mode (i.e. not sRGB mode) then you do need to use colour management, and learn a bit about it. Otherwise colours will often be wrong.

I wrote some notes about colour management for a recent talk to a camera club here:

http://www.simongarrett.co.uk/colour.htm

See the link "Colour Management Cheat Sheet" for an overview of colour management, which also includes (at the bottom of the Cheat Sheet) a lot of links to sites I've found helpful. There are also links on that first page to presentations on the subject.

--
Simon

larry55279 · Mar 1, 2016

If you are printing at home, use a larger color space (ProPhoto or AdobeRGB).

See if your 3rd-party printer can use a larger color space.

AxelR · Mar 1, 2016

Billiam29 said:
AxelR said:

Billiam29 said:

Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB? Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB? Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately?

Click to expand...

It depends on the software you use to display the image (has to be "fully color managed" and most image viewers aren't) and sometimes how said software is configured.

Click to expand...

To get a bit more specific, a fully color managed application like Photoshop will even allow you to have multiple files using different color spaces open at the same time and each will be displayed "correctly." For example I can make three documents in Photoshop using sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto. If I set my foreground color to 100% red (255,0,0), I can visually see Photoshop change the foreground color swatch in the toolbar as I click on each of the three documents.

Photoshop is not an image viewer.

Billiam29 · Mar 1, 2016

AxelR said:
Billiam29 said:

AxelR said:

AxelR said:

Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB? Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB? Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately?

Click to expand...

It depends on the software you use to display the image (has to be "fully color managed" and most image viewers aren't) and sometimes how said software is configured.

Click to expand...

To get a bit more specific, a fully color managed application like Photoshop will even allow you to have multiple files using different color spaces open at the same time and each will be displayed "correctly." For example I can make three documents in Photoshop using sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto. If I set my foreground color to 100% red (255,0,0), I can visually see Photoshop change the foreground color swatch in the toolbar as I click on each of the three documents.

Click to expand...

Photoshop is not an image viewer.

Nor did I intend to state it was. Sorry if it came across that way. I simply meant to cite Photoshop as an example of a fully color managed application. I guess I was replying to the phrase from your post "...software you use to display the image..." in the literal sense of "display" being to render and image file on a monitor.

AlanB1976 · Mar 1, 2016

Thanks for the replies all. I'll continue to try learn more to make better use of the monitor.

bmoag · Mar 1, 2016

Try this at home (monitor calibration is irrelevant for this) process a raw image in Prophoto at 16 bits. Change the bit depth to 8 bits. Save that 8 bit image as a jpeg, close and reopen the file. What do you see on the monitor each time? What do you think the prints will look like from each version of the file? Covert the 8 bit image to sRGB and see what happens to that image. If you only view your images on a monitor which version of the image would you want to keep and show others, any of the RGB images or the sRGB image? I may be missing something but I do not understand your workflow if you want to always see the best version of your image regardless of whether you print the images or not.

If you mostly view your images on a monitor why would you not want a wide gamut monitor? How could you consider that a waste of money? I am truly puzzled.

If someone is satisfied with sRGB that person can save much time and effort and simply shoot jpegs. That way they live in an sRGB world without the fuss of calibration or concerns about color space and bit depth. That works for a lot of amateur and professional purposes but throws away most of the information contained in a raw file except maybe the resolution.

In any event I hope you have saved your raw files so that if you are inclined to learn more about why you might want to do things differently you are able to do so.

AxelR · Mar 2, 2016

Billiam29 said:
AxelR said:

Billiam29 said:

AxelR said:

Billiam29 said:

Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB? Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB? Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately?

Click to expand...

It depends on the software you use to display the image (has to be "fully color managed" and most image viewers aren't) and sometimes how said software is configured.

Click to expand...

To get a bit more specific, a fully color managed application like Photoshop will even allow you to have multiple files using different color spaces open at the same time and each will be displayed "correctly." For example I can make three documents in Photoshop using sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto. If I set my foreground color to 100% red (255,0,0), I can visually see Photoshop change the foreground color swatch in the toolbar as I click on each of the three documents.

Click to expand...

Photoshop is not an image viewer.

Click to expand...

Nor did I intend to state it was. Sorry if it came across that way. I simply meant to cite Photoshop as an example of a fully color managed application. I guess I was replying to the phrase from your post "...software you use to display the image..." in the literal sense of "display" being to render and image file on a monitor.

No worries. People tend to use a variety of different applications to look at their pictures, image editors of course but also catalogers, simple image viewers, web browsers etc... and you get an uniformly consistent viewing experience across all applications (and all devices) if you settle for sRGB. This does not prevent you to use a wide working color space, say ProPhotoRGB, for your 16-bit editing work in PS.

AdobeRGB monitors makes great sense for a dedicated editing workstation using a small set of color-aware applications, Photoshop definitely being one of them. Here you can calibrate and profile your monitor and configure the OS (and sometimes the software you use) to do the right things with regard to color space conversion and benefit from the wider monitor gamut, but you may (will) run into issues with other software, e.g. many image viewers, slideshows, video editors and players, web browsers etc and setting up everything correctly may (will) quickly turn out to be a big headache, so as much as I love the idea of wider gamut I'd not recommend an AdobeRGB monitor for a general purpose computer doing a little image editing.

digidog · Mar 3, 2016

AlanB1976 said:
Did I waste my money on the screen, since my output is sRGB?

No, it's useful for output to print, it's useful for viewing the wider gamut data in any color managed app (even a browser). See below.

AlanB1976 said:
Or am I being stupid and there’s a way I can have AdobeRGB while still being compatible with sRGB?

It doesn't matter when viewing either sRGB or Adobe RGB (or any RGB color space) in a color managed application. Outside of such applications, ON an sRGB like display, sRGB will look 'better' but the same could be true of Adobe RGB (1998) on your wide gamut display.

The bottom line is, if you want to view any color image correctly and have it match multiple applications, they all have to be color managed.

AlanB1976 said:
Also, if I pull up a sRGB picture and my screen is set to AdobeRGB, will it display accurately?

In a color managed app, yes. Test your browser and if it's not color managed, get one that is:

WEB BROWSER COLOR MANAGEMENT Tutorial - Test Page FireFox Safari Chrome Internet Explorer IE 10- FILES have embedded ICC profiles Photoshop ColorManagement

This internet Test page will determine if your web browser is color managed, PDI_Target JPEG have embedded profiles sRGB AppleRGB AdobeRGB, all photos will look the same IF browser is color managed, based on Photoshop color management Save For Web ImageReady

www.gballard.net

Is your system ICC Version 4 ready?

The International Color Consortium....promoting and encouraging the standardization of an open color management system

www.color.org

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Did I waste money on my Adobe RGB screen

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WEB BROWSER COLOR MANAGEMENT Tutorial - Test Page FireFox Safari Chrome Internet Explorer IE 10- FILES have embedded ICC profiles Photoshop ColorManagement

Is your system ICC Version 4 ready?

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