Doug_PS
Leading Member
Yes, I will. I ordered the 400 5.6L from B&H yesterday so should arrive Thursday. I'll see if I can use the 70D and the new lens to "track" the UPS guy heading back to his truck after the delivery. Should be good practice! ;-)
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70D Autofocus issues?
- Thread starter Doug_PS
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- canon eos 70d
R2D2
Forum Pro
Many thanks Doug. Birding really gets into your blood
. I've shot with a fair number of lenses over the years for birding, and still keep coming back to the 400 prime. It's just so fast and sharp and well-behaved. I do shoot bursts even for stills. Good breath control is a must.Fortunately though when I really really need IS, I have the luxury of opting for the 300 f/4L IS (like last weekend shooting my niece's H.S. play). I shot the whole thing handheld wide open at 1/60 sec (or slower) with IS on, @ ISO 1600 (single point AF in AI Servo, BBAF). Many hundreds of shots and the amazing 70D hit focus on 100% of them, I kid you not. Only lost shots due to subject motion blur or occasional camera shake (I used the extremely useful "silent shutter" drive mode)...
The 300/4L IS is exceptionally good for some types of shooting, but usually a little short for birds.
Really, the only other birding lens I'd consider upgrading to would be the 500 f/4L IS II. That's just me of course, and other folks have been extremely successful with other lenses. You just have to weigh your priorities. Good luck!
Thanks again for the kind comments,
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
Galleries by Jekyll & Hyde
www.pbase.com
R2D2
Forum Pro
Hey many thanks kind sir. I'd sure like to take all the credit HeHe, but good technique must pair up with good equipment
.In fact I've set up my rig (with my favorite BIF settings) and handed it to people who have never held a DSLR in their hands before, and they've shot some really excellent BIFs on day one! I always emphasize tracking and follow-through. Can't lose.
Here are a couple of previous threads with some really good BIF info that might help (Doug or yourself or others)...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3641079?page=2
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/34707770
Also, when starting out, put that sun behind you. It gives the AF a lot of contrast to work with.
Good luck all,
R2
Doug_PS
Leading Member
R2D2Hey many thanks kind sir. I'd sure like to take all the credit HeHe, but good technique must pair up with good equipment
In fact I've set up my rig (with my favorite BIF settings) and handed it to people who have never held a DSLR in their hands before, and they've shot some really excellent BIFs on day one! I always emphasize tracking and follow-through. Can't lose.
Here are a couple of previous threads with some really good BIF info that might help (Doug or yourself or others)...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3641079?page=2
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/34707770
Also, when starting out, put that sun behind you. It gives the AF a lot of contrast to work with.
Good luck all,
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
Thank you for all of the information (tips, links, etc...). Just from the research I've done in choosing a body/lens combo to begin exploring more seriously this type of activity (ie nature/wildlife/birding), I see that you and many others have been very generous in sharing with others from your many years of experience with this type of photography. I have many of those posts book marked and I'm sure they will be invaluable as I progress up the learning curve. I look forward to the learning adventure!
I went through quite a bit of thougt in choosing thev70D/400'5.6 combo (ie considering various options). But now that I've made the commitment to this combo, I feel great about the decision. Can't wait to get out and start putting the equipment to use!
Thanks again!
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?? The images are exactly representative of the combo! R2D2's shots are great, but others get similar results with the 70D & 400 prime.
Hey many thanks kind sir. I'd sure like to take all the credit HeHe, but good technique must pair up with good equipment
In fact I've set up my rig (with my favorite BIF settings) and handed it to people who have never held a DSLR in their hands before, and they've shot some really excellent BIFs on day one! I always emphasize tracking and follow-through. Can't lose.
Here are a couple of previous threads with some really good BIF info that might help (Doug or yourself or others)...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3641079?page=2
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/34707770
Also, when starting out, put that sun behind you. It gives the AF a lot of contrast to work with.
Good luck all,
R2
Doug_PS
Leading Member
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I did strongly consider the 100-400 M2. Really, I had narrowed my choice down between these two lenses. Cost between the two was a big driver in my decision. I'm sure the 100-400 M2 is awesome, just not sure I can swing the funds at the moment.That's a great combo, but did you consider that the 100-400 M2 has a 3.2 ft min focus distance? And it has a very fast focus speed? The reason I mention it is because it can be as good as the 400 but you an get almost 3ft from a subject with nearly 400mm! That's big...it means nice close up shots in the dead of summer when birds are nearly nowhere to be seen. If I were making a decision right now, I'd have to get the new zoom a serious consideration even though I prefer primes. Just making sure you have given it full consideration. I'll never part with my 400 F/5.6, but I might get the 100-400 M2 one day.R2D2Hey many thanks kind sir. I'd sure like to take all the credit HeHe, but good technique must pair up with good equipment
In fact I've set up my rig (with my favorite BIF settings) and handed it to people who have never held a DSLR in their hands before, and they've shot some really excellent BIFs on day one! I always emphasize tracking and follow-through. Can't lose.
Here are a couple of previous threads with some really good BIF info that might help (Doug or yourself or others)...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3641079?page=2
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/34707770
Also, when starting out, put that sun behind you. It gives the AF a lot of contrast to work with.
Good luck all,
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
Thank you for all of the information (tips, links, etc...). Just from the research I've done in choosing a body/lens combo to begin exploring more seriously this type of activity (ie nature/wildlife/birding), I see that you and many others have been very generous in sharing with others from your many years of experience with this type of photography. I have many of those posts book marked and I'm sure they will be invaluable as I progress up the learning curve. I look forward to the learning adventure!
I went through quite a bit of thougt in choosing thev70D/400'5.6 combo (ie considering various options). But now that I've made the commitment to this combo, I feel great about the decision. Can't wait to get out and start putting the equipment to use!
Thanks again!
I see today that the original 7D (MKI) is down to $749 new at B&H (clearing them out). That's a great price....even if the camera is now several years old technology. Makes me wonder if I should have gone for this over the 70D!
elfroggio
Senior Member
Good photographers make good photos. Great photographers make great photos. The job of a camera and lens is to allow the photographer to do his/her "job".
BTW, I'm very happy with my 7DMk2 and my 70d has been relegated to occasional backup.
If you keep your shutter speed up for birds you won't miss the IS too much on the 400mm prime. It is light and easy to pan with.Awesome photos. Thanks for the information on the 400 prime. I'm seriously considering this combo (70D & 400 prime). This combo would cost me about $2,350 at current prices. That's not bad! The 70D & 100-400 L I I combo would run about 3,200. Quite a difference! Leaning towards the 400 prime. Really wish it had IS as I'll primarily be handholding.The 400 f/5.6 is a great lens, and it too pairs well with the 70D...
Click on "original size"
But you have to weigh your priorities. The zoom is more versatile of course.
With the prime I can reliably shoot stills down to about 1/125 sec handholding (shooting bursts).
Being able to autofocus with the Tamron 1.4x TC can also be a big benefit...
Tamron 1.4x (non-reporting) TC. Click on "original size"
The TC works great for little birds too...
Tamron TC. Click on "original size"
More samples here (including some 100% crops)...
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/the_birds
Happy hunting,
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
--
If it moves I shoot it.
I wish more people talked about the need for breath control. Hand holding my 500mm is very much like shooting a rifle. I need to brace it in tight and control my breathing while panning due to the effort it takes me to control that much weight. Now I practice that with all my lenses and am getting better shots with lower shutter speeds. Your images are always fantastic!Many thanks Doug. Birding really gets into your blood
Fortunately though when I really really need IS, I have the luxury of opting for the 300 f/4L IS (like last weekend shooting my niece's H.S. play). I shot the whole thing handheld wide open at 1/60 sec (or slower) with IS on, @ ISO 1600 (single point AF in AI Servo, BBAF). Many hundreds of shots and the amazing 70D hit focus on 100% of them, I kid you not. Only lost shots due to subject motion blur or occasional camera shake (I used the extremely useful "silent shutter" drive mode)...
The 300/4L IS is exceptionally good for some types of shooting, but usually a little short for birds.
Really, the only other birding lens I'd consider upgrading to would be the 500 f/4L IS II. That's just me of course, and other folks have been extremely successful with other lenses. You just have to weigh your priorities. Good luck!
Thanks again for the kind comments,
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
--
If it moves I shoot it.
Doug_PS
Leading Member
The 400 5.6 arrived Thursday night from B&H and even though it's been cloudy weather over the weekend, I did get a chance to shoot my 1st BIF photos. We'll Vulture's in flight really:-D. So, both the subjects and the conditions were less than ideal. However, did give me some practice "tracking" for when the conditions and the subjects are ideal!
I followed the advice you've given to many others (in various threads) and used single point focus, AI-Servo, manual mode, hi speed burst, aperture wide open, etc... Since the conditions were "overcast", I wasn't able to keep my ISO at 400 or the shutter speed at 2000 (+). The speed was more like 1000 to 1600 and the ISO used was 640. So, the resulting photos were on the "noisy" side.
The one thing I'm having the biggest problem with is how to set the correct exposure for BIF so that the bird is correctly exposed. I was trying to use Manual mode to "preset" the exposure since the light was very constant (overcast). Obviously, the bird is did not agree to "pose" while I was presetting the exposure;-).
The results of most of my photos were that the bird was underexposed. The bird had a dark body and white tipped feathers and the body was well underexposed.
I'm hoping to get some tips from those of you who are experts in this type of photography on good methods for setting the correct exposure for BIF.
Thanks,
I followed the advice you've given to many others (in various threads) and used single point focus, AI-Servo, manual mode, hi speed burst, aperture wide open, etc... Since the conditions were "overcast", I wasn't able to keep my ISO at 400 or the shutter speed at 2000 (+). The speed was more like 1000 to 1600 and the ISO used was 640. So, the resulting photos were on the "noisy" side.
The one thing I'm having the biggest problem with is how to set the correct exposure for BIF so that the bird is correctly exposed. I was trying to use Manual mode to "preset" the exposure since the light was very constant (overcast). Obviously, the bird is did not agree to "pose" while I was presetting the exposure;-).
The results of most of my photos were that the bird was underexposed. The bird had a dark body and white tipped feathers and the body was well underexposed.
I'm hoping to get some tips from those of you who are experts in this type of photography on good methods for setting the correct exposure for BIF.
Thanks,
Jerry-astro
Forum Pro
You'll have to compensate for the relatively bright background by bumping up your exposure compensation to somewhere between +2/3 and 1 stop, depending on whether you're shooting against bright sky, clouds, etc. The camera is correctly metering for the much more prominent background. I'm also a bit surprised that you're getting much in the way of noise at ISO 640, though, if your subject is underexposed by a stop, this is entirely possible. I think you'll find that the noise will be reduced significantly when you get the exposure right.
If you're still underexposing the bird and doing everything else right, keep tweaking EC until you get acceptable results. Also understand that the tonal range between the sky and a dark bird will be pretty significant, so any detail in clouds may be difficult to bring out in post processing. You may end up stretching the dynamic range of the sensor to its limits.
Doug_PS
Leading Member
Thanks! I really appreciate the tips!
So, I'm assuming that I'd typically set the "initial" exposure by pointing the camera to the sky in the general direction I expect to be shooting. Then, if using "M" mode, and I wanted to keep the aperture wide open at 5.6, and ideally keep the ISO at 400 (or lower) I'd just adjust the shutter speed until the exposure reading in the view finder showed the correct exposure (i.e. hopefully, I'd get a speed of at least 1/2000). Then after getting the "general" exposure via this method, I'd up the exposure compensation to somewhere between +2/3 and 1 stop (as you suggested). Do I have the general concept correct?
Let me ask also, would a grey card help in setting the correct exposure? I use a lastolite Easy Balance quite a bit for this with my other (i.e. non BIF photography).
Here are a couple of examples of the underexposure and noise from my pic's today. I think we might need a new term for this type of photography. I'm thinking VIF (Vulture in flight might be appropriate)!! This is my first attempt at tracking with the 400 5.6....so please take it easy on me;-). By the way, not a lot of processing (in Lightroom) if any on these pic's. No noise reduction applied and only moderate sharpening (no cropping done). This is one ugly bird!
Vulture
Vulture
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Jerry-astro
Forum Pro
Member said:
Perhaps one of the BIF experts here can weigh in with a better process for setting exposure, but I think what you're suggesting is close to the mark. You may find the need to set EC even higher than that in order to properly expose a very dark bird.Member said:
A gray card is more about setting white balance than exposure, IMHO, so I'm not sure in this case it would help all that much. If you're shooting RAW, you can deal with tweaking the WB after the fact, if necessary.
I'm probably not as capable as some others here at estimating exposure, but I would say that +2/3 or 1 stop would be fairly close on your example. This is fairly easy to test by bringing your image into Photoshop, Lightroom, or whatever you're using and use the slider to increase exposure to where you would want it. Ignore the noise for now and pay attention to how far you have to adjust the image to make it look the way you want it to. That's what you should use for EC when you capture the image.
Good luck and we'll look forward to seeing more VIF shots.
Doug_PS
Leading Member
Thanks Jerry! The advise is much appreciated! I'll be sure to post my properly exposed VIF pic's for the viewing pleasure of everyone
On second thought, people may stop tuning into DPReivew if VIF pic's become the norm!
R2D2
Forum Pro
Big congrats are in order Doug. Those "VIFs" look to be focused just fine. Just a little blur from the slow shutter speeds (darn overcast weather!!!). You'll get better results when you can get out in the sun.
That grey card/Ezybalance card that you mentioned in the other post can certainly be used in the same manner that you use it for your other shooting. Just put it in the same light as your subject and meter off of it (ie. in your case hold it up against the sky and meter off of it). Use that reading as the starting point for your manual settings (exposure will be very close).
For very dark birds (like the vultures) you may want to increase the exposure a little more in order to gain some additional detail...
I had the benefit of a sunny day to help me out here.
Be sure to keep checking your LCD and histogram for exposure as you shoot.
And practice tracking everything in sight that is moving!
Happy shooting!
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
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WilbaW
Forum Pro
I do it slightly differently. M @ f/5.6 or 8. Choose the shutter for the amount of blur you want, like 1/1600 or 1/2000. Then point at the sky in the direction of shooting, and set the ISO so the meter is up around +1 and 2/3 or 2. Take a test shot of the sky, check the RGB histogram, and adjust ISO to protect your highlights. For raw you need to know how much headroom you have. I'm happy letting one channel touch the right side. For JPEG you probably don't want anything touching the right side, but get it as close as you can, like one click back from the setting that makes the histogram touch.
Doug_PS
Leading Member
Thanks for the information! I'll try the Grey card approach and keep an eye on the histogram and see how that works. I really felt like I was "guessing" on the exposure yesterday. Very tricky it seems to get the exposure right. however, I'm sure I'll start to feel more confident with it now that I understand how to go about it a bit better and after much practice!Big congrats are in order Doug. Those "VIFs" look to be focused just fine. Just a little blur from the slow shutter speeds (darn overcast weather!!!). You'll get better results when you can get out in the sun.
That grey card/Ezybalance card that you mentioned in the other post can certainly be used in the same manner that you use it for your other shooting. Just put it in the same light as your subject and meter off of it (ie. in your case hold it up against the sky and meter off of it). Use that reading as the starting point for your manual settings (exposure will be very close).
For very dark birds (like the vultures) you may want to increase the exposure a little more in order to gain some additional detail...
I had the benefit of a sunny day to help me out here.
Be sure to keep checking your LCD and histogram for exposure as you shoot.
And practice tracking everything in sight that is moving!
Happy shooting!
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
We should have some good sun today. There were many Hawks flying around yesterday. Maybe I'll have an opportunity to practice on some Hawks today.....should be more challenging to track than those larger slower moving and "considerably uglier" VIF's
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Doug_PS
Leading Member
Great! Thanks for the advise! I think we're in luck today with some good sunshine so I'll get an opportunity to practice a bit more. I'll try you're approach today! Hopefully on some nice blue sky background!
Doug_PS
Leading Member
I did get a chance to get out this morning with some good sunshine and practice with the exposure. I used the grey card (EZBalance) to set the initial exposure and seemed to work pretty good for getting me in the general range. Luckily there was a Hawk soaring by and got a chance to test the exposure in action. Much better results than with the VIF pic's yesterday. The Hawk was very far away but well lit by the sun. I'm still getting quite a bit of "noise", but I'm thinking that's mainly due to the distance the bird was from me. The picture below is cropped quite a bit! Still, very encouraging results!Big congrats are in order Doug. Those "VIFs" look to be focused just fine. Just a little blur from the slow shutter speeds (darn overcast weather!!!). You'll get better results when you can get out in the sun.
That grey card/Ezybalance card that you mentioned in the other post can certainly be used in the same manner that you use it for your other shooting. Just put it in the same light as your subject and meter off of it (ie. in your case hold it up against the sky and meter off of it). Use that reading as the starting point for your manual settings (exposure will be very close).
For very dark birds (like the vultures) you may want to increase the exposure a little more in order to gain some additional detail...
I had the benefit of a sunny day to help me out here.
Be sure to keep checking your LCD and histogram for exposure as you shoot.
And practice tracking everything in sight that is moving!
Happy shooting!
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
Now time to go off and practice, practice, practice. Thanks for all of the help....definitely helped get me going in the right direction!
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