Af-s vs. Af-c

I use AF-ON only, AF-C, Single Point. As John said, it covers a variety of situations without needing to change settings.
forgive my ignorance, in the D3s menu a5, AF Activation, I have Shutter/AF-ON (ok'ed). In that configuration, the AF-ON button on upper right side of the camera, when pressed, locks the autofocus. So, are you talking about the same thing when you say "I use AF-ON only". That button does not autofocus. I press the shutter halfway to autofocus and the I can lock that focus by pressing the AF-ON button.
 
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There is no advantage to AF-S (other than focus/recompose, which works OK if you are shooting stopped down quite a bit) and now, when shooting with narrow DOF settings, I have learned to always use AF-C. Once I started going this, my keeper rate soared. I rarely see OOF shots anymore. We aren't nearly as steady as we think we are and subject aren't as stationary as we think either.

I also set focus release for AF-C and I am one of the few who doesn't really care for the AF-on button but I understand why some would. I found I would get lazy and instead of moving the focus point, I would release the AF and recompose out of habit = low keeper rate. I tried it for a while and ended up going back to shutter button AF on, which forces me to move the focus point.
Note to the OP. Using the AF-ON button for focus is a learned behavior. You literally have to train yourself and give yourself enough time to be comfortable with it. Some people don't get over the initial training hump before they decide to abandon it. When shooting soccer games, I'd say it took me 3-4 soccer games before I felt comfortable with it and it started to become second nature.

The disadvantage of using AF-C with "focus on half-press" is that you lose 4 of the 5 focus options that I outline in my previous post. You can only use continuous focus. You can't do focus and recompose, you can't do manual focus, you can't do pre-focus, then stop tracking, you can't do pre-focus, take a couple shots, then switch back to tracking focus, etc... without changing camera settings.
 
There is no advantage to AF-S (other than focus/recompose, which works OK if you are shooting stopped down quite a bit) and now, when shooting with narrow DOF settings, I have learned to always use AF-C. Once I started going this, my keeper rate soared. I rarely see OOF shots anymore. We aren't nearly as steady as we think we are and subject aren't as stationary as we think either.

I also set focus release for AF-C and I am one of the few who doesn't really care for the AF-on button but I understand why some would. I found I would get lazy and instead of moving the focus point, I would release the AF and recompose out of habit = low keeper rate. I tried it for a while and ended up going back to shutter button AF on, which forces me to move the focus point.
Note to the OP. Using the AF-ON button for focus is a learned behavior. You literally have to train yourself and give yourself enough time to be comfortable with it. Some people don't get over the initial training hump before they decide to abandon it. When shooting soccer games, I'd say it took me 3-4 soccer games before I felt comfortable with it and it started to become second nature.

The disadvantage of using AF-C with "focus on half-press" is that you lose 4 of the 5 focus options that I outline in my previous post. You can only use continuous focus. You can't do focus and recompose, you can't do manual focus, you can't do pre-focus, then stop tracking, you can't do pre-focus, take a couple shots, then switch back to tracking focus, etc... without changing camera settings.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
John, one exception here is when you have set the Af -on button to stop focus. In this case you can use Af-C in all those instances and when you acquire focus, just press the back button to hold the focus in place. This was you can recompose, and go back to follow focus if the action kicks in again.
OK, I can see that, but ouch that hurts my brain with focus control on two buttons. It has more control than just half-press, but still doesn't have quite the flexibility of straight AF-ON for focus and it seems more complicated since you've now got focus control on two separate buttons.

To those considering AF-ON, I highly recommend setting focus to AF-ON only with AF-C. It is really, really, really useful once you get comfortable with it. It is my understanding that many, many pros focus this way (one reason why every "pro" body Nikon makes has an AF-ON button) and I find it invaluable for many types of shooting.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
 
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you can't do manual focus,
The other may be true but this one doesn't seem to be. Manual override works fine.
So you do a half-press and while holding the half press without losing the half press and without triggering the shutter, you reach with your other hand for the focus barrel and manually refocus?

Thank goodness AF-ON was invented - IMO it's a lot easier. I just press AF-ON to acquire initial focus and then release it and then I'm free without holding anything else to manually tweak focus if I want. I do all my macro shooting this way and sometimes some landscape shots where I'm tweaking for max DOF.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
Not really...

When shooting surfers in high windy "spritz" that confuses AF, you have to roll in toi focus.

Shoot thru a screen you have to roll in to focus the subject beyond



RAG_1724.NEF-X3.jpg


I don't use AF button

Rags
 
Both of mine cameras are permanently set on AF-C but I don't use AF-On because I constantly change focus points. And changing my finger from the stick to AF-On button is too much work.

Another difference is that on AF-C in the low light the AF-Assist Illuminator will not work. But AF on D800 is so good that I don't miss it and actually I don't want it.
I just don't get why you can't af with the stick and move af points ?
Only one thumb, two operations. Can't do both at the same time.

You can do it but for me it would be a delay to capture the precious moment.
Wish nikon would just do it with a firmware update, I use af on all the time and it's a pain going back and forth from stick to af button
You mean allow push of the stick to focus after selecting the focus point? But that function is already assigned to the centering of the focus point.
 
I believe this changed between the D700 and D800E. With the D800E it only prevents the shot if the camera has not yet achieved focus. Once focus has been achieved it will take the shot even if the subject has gone out of focus.

One used to be able to Focus Priority to do focus trapping. Can't do that with a D800E, as far as I can tell.
Plus, no one has mentioned the autofocus confirmation beep only in AF-S mode. Call me superstitious, but I like to hear that beep before I fire, whenever I can. I too use the AF-On button with AF-C when things are moving around a lot.
 
jfriend00 wrote:To those considering AF-ON, I highly recommend setting focus to AF-ON only with AF-C. It is really, really, really useful once you get comfortable with it.
+1. It's true.

I don't know if it is self-evident to newcomers to AF-On or not, but not tying focus to shutter relieves you of not having to hold shutter halfway down, while waiting for the right moment to occur. Often, I acquire focus, let go of AF-On, and then I fine tune exposure and composition. If say, you're waiting for animal to do something, you could be holding that shutter indefinitely. And, if you let it go, and the next time you hit the shutter the camera will re-focus. If the focus point is in the centre but your subject isn't, then you have to focus + recompose, which gets tiresome. (or you could move the focus point to your off-centered subject ahead of time)

Another scenario:

You are on a tripod. You don't use AF-ON. You move your focus point to your subject. You half-press shutter and activate the AF and camera locks onto subject. You get green light and it beeps. So far so good. The metering is active and you go ahead and start dialing in your exposure. But then you stop, you think about composition. You think about zooming in or out. You think if you should do HDR. You think if I only had a 200mm F/2, life would be sweet. Never mind.....I should just shoot this. By now, metering is off. You halfway press shutter again to turn on metering to fine tune exposure or do a test shot, and guess what? The camera will re-focus. Sometimes, if your subject is high-contrast then it's fine. Other times, the even closest focus point doesn't fall on a high-contrast part of your scene and your AF will hunt. So now, you loosen your ballhead, you tweak the camera so the focus point can pick up something high contrast and recompose............and the whole time, you really wanted NOT to touch the camera cuz you wanted to use mirror lockup and cable release........you get the point.

Yes, you can switch the lens to manual once you have acquired focus the first time, but that's a pain. Using AF-On and AF-C full time, gives you the flexibility of telling the camera when and when not to focus. And you never have to switch the camera or the lens to manual mode. (or forget to bring it back to AF)
 
OK, I can see that, but ouch that hurts my brain with focus control on two buttons.
Yet using the AF-on, you have to operate two buttons for every shot you take.

Having focus lock set to a button, allows the use of only use one button for camera operation for 90% of my shooting. In the rare case (for me) I want to focus and recompose while in AF-C, I press one button to lock focus.

The other issue with the AF-on for me is: one of my camera bodies doesn't even have that button (and the AF/AE lock button that can be assigned to it is too far out of the reach of my smaller hands) but all of them allow the function button under my pinky finger to be set to focus lock. I can then have all 3 camera bodies set to operate the same way.

I understand you like this way of shooting and because "pro's do it" it must be the way mere mortals should as well :P I just find it more intuitive to use AF-C (+ focus lock if needed) or simply set to AF-S beforehand if I know that is the AF type most likely I would use for that shoot.
 
and the whole time, you really wanted NOT to touch the camera cuz you wanted to use mirror lockup and cable release........you get the point.
In this scenario, on a tripod with plans to use MLU and a cable release, I'd be using live view zoomed in and manual focus to setup the shot anyway, and likely manual exposure using a hand held incidence meter.
 
Is it even possible to use the focus recompose technique with single point, AF-C and using the shutter to acquire focus?
That's what focus lock does. I setup a function button for it, but I don't use AF-C + focus lock if all I plan to do is focus/recompose every shot. I am of the school to move focus points rather than recompose yet if I know every shot is too dynamic/fast paced to move focus points, I just use AF-S knowing I am going to have some miss focused shots if shooting at large apertures. If I'm shooting with a fairly large DOF, this won't be a problem.'

3D tracking will also do this in AF-C mode and will continue to AF even after you recompose (unlike the other recompose method,s including using AF-on). Just know there is a timer on how long it will stay locked on this moved target, but that timer can also be adjusted in the settings. I personally want to play with this more myself.
 
OK, I can see that, but ouch that hurts my brain with focus control on two buttons.
Yet using the AF-on, you have to operate two buttons for every shot you take.

Having focus lock set to a button, allows the use of only use one button for camera operation for 90% of my shooting. In the rare case (for me) I want to focus and recompose while in AF-C, I press one button to lock focus.

The other issue with the AF-on for me is: one of my camera bodies doesn't even have that button (and the AF/AE lock button that can be assigned to it is too far out of the reach of my smaller hands) but all of them allow the function button under my pinky finger to be set to focus lock. I can then have all 3 camera bodies set to operate the same way.

I understand you like this way of shooting and because "pro's do it" it must be the way mere mortals should as well :P I just find it more intuitive to use AF-C (+ focus lock if needed) or simply set to AF-S beforehand if I know that is the AF type most likely I would use for that shoot.
That depends upon your viewpoint. We have two separate operations (focus and shutter) and I appreciate having them on completely separate buttons and being able to control each 100% independently of the other. It offers the most flexibility. I also think that, when your brain gets used to this, then it actually becomes an advantage because you are more trained to think about each operation. How/when do I want to acquire focus is a very separate thought and operation from when do I want to trigger the shutter. Having them never be related to one another trains me to consider each separately as part of taking a shot. If I want to do them nearly simultaneously as with a press of the shutter, that is no more difficult than pressing the shutter (once you are trained).

Yes, I don't have the luxury of forgetting about planning my focus and just pressing the shutter, but to me that's an advantage, not a disadvantage - particularly when I have the advantage of triggering the shutter without disturbing the focus - regardless of how I previously set focus.

When half-press triggers a focus operation, even if you later use focus lock, the two functions are NOT completely independent and this is most apparent if you want any form of manual focus. For example, imagine you want to shoot a multi-shot panorama and you want to pre-focus for all images so there is no change in focus from one image to the next. With AF-ON triggering focus, all I do is pre-focus using AF-ON, then release the AF-ON button and happily go use the shutter to take all my images. Can you do that using focus lock (can you hold focus lock across many images?) without switching the camera to manual focus mode?

So, in the end, which is "better" is a personal choice based on what any given person wants to take the time to learn and what kind of capabilities you want. I won't argue that anybody should or shouldn't do it one way or the other. I am however trying to make sure that the flexibility and usefulness of using only AF-ON to trigger focus is described well enough for people to make their own informed choice.
 
There is no advantage to AF-S (other than focus/recompose, which works OK if you are shooting stopped down quite a bit) and now, when shooting with narrow DOF settings, I have learned to always use AF-C. Once I started going this, my keeper rate soared. I rarely see OOF shots anymore. We aren't nearly as steady as we think we are and subject aren't as stationary as we think either.

I also set focus release for AF-C and I am one of the few who doesn't really care for the AF-on button but I understand why some would. I found I would get lazy and instead of moving the focus point, I would release the AF and recompose out of habit = low keeper rate. I tried it for a while and ended up going back to shutter button AF on, which forces me to move the focus point.
Note to the OP. Using the AF-ON button for focus is a learned behavior. You literally have to train yourself and give yourself enough time to be comfortable with it. Some people don't get over the initial training hump before they decide to abandon it. When shooting soccer games, I'd say it took me 3-4 soccer games before I felt comfortable with it and it started to become second nature.

The disadvantage of using AF-C with "focus on half-press" is that you lose 4 of the 5 focus options that I outline in my previous post. You can only use continuous focus. You can't do focus and recompose, you can't do manual focus, you can't do pre-focus, then stop tracking, you can't do pre-focus, take a couple shots, then switch back to tracking focus, etc... without changing camera settings.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
John, one exception here is when you have set the Af -on button to stop focus. In this case you can use Af-C in all those instances and when you acquire focus, just press the back button to hold the focus in place. This was you can recompose, and go back to follow focus if the action kicks in again.
OK, I can see that, but ouch that hurts my brain with focus control on two buttons. It has more control than just half-press, but still doesn't have quite the flexibility of straight AF-ON for focus and it seems more complicated since you've now got focus control on two separate buttons.

To those considering AF-ON, I highly recommend setting focus to AF-ON only with AF-C. It is really, really, really useful once you get comfortable with it. It is my understanding that many, many pros focus this way (one reason why every "pro" body Nikon makes has an AF-ON button) and I find it invaluable for many types of shooting.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
+1

This is what I use at weddings using D700/D300.
 
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Both of mine cameras are permanently set on AF-C but I don't use AF-On because I constantly change focus points. And changing my finger from the stick to AF-On button is too much work.

Another difference is that on AF-C in the low light the AF-Assist Illuminator will not work. But AF on D800 is so good that I don't miss it and actually I don't want it.
I just don't get why you can't af with the stick and move af points ?
Only one thumb, two operations. Can't do both at the same time.

You can do it but for me it would be a delay to capture the precious moment.
Wish nikon would just do it with a firmware update, I use af on all the time and it's a pain going back and forth from stick to af button
You mean allow push of the stick to focus after selecting the focus point? But that function is already assigned to the centering of the focus point.
I would like to change the push the stick to af, rather then to centre focus point
 
I believe this changed between the D700 and D800E. With the D800E it only prevents the shot if the camera has not yet achieved focus. Once focus has been achieved it will take the shot even if the subject has gone out of focus.

One used to be able to Focus Priority to do focus trapping. Can't do that with a D800E, as far as I can tell.
Plus, no one has mentioned the autofocus confirmation beep only in AF-S mode. Call me superstitious, but I like to hear that beep before I fire, whenever I can. I too use the AF-On button with AF-C when things are moving around a lot.

I like the beep :)

I also like to keep it simple.
 
There is no advantage to AF-S (other than focus/recompose, which works OK if you are shooting stopped down quite a bit) and now, when shooting with narrow DOF settings, I have learned to always use AF-C. Once I started going this, my keeper rate soared. I rarely see OOF shots anymore. We aren't nearly as steady as we think we are and subject aren't as stationary as we think either.

I also set focus release for AF-C and I am one of the few who doesn't really care for the AF-on button but I understand why some would. I found I would get lazy and instead of moving the focus point, I would release the AF and recompose out of habit = low keeper rate. I tried it for a while and ended up going back to shutter button AF on, which forces me to move the focus point.
Note to the OP. Using the AF-ON button for focus is a learned behavior. You literally have to train yourself and give yourself enough time to be comfortable with it. Some people don't get over the initial training hump before they decide to abandon it. When shooting soccer games, I'd say it took me 3-4 soccer games before I felt comfortable with it and it started to become second nature.
It is true that using the AF-ON needs some practice and discipline, but...
The disadvantage of using AF-C with "focus on half-press" is that you lose 4 of the 5 focus options that I outline in my previous post. You can only use continuous focus. You can't do focus and recompose,
...this is not entirely true. If you set the camera to AF-C and 3-D tracking then you can do focus/recompose using the half press, but even this needs some practice.
you can't do manual focus,
...this is not entirely true.If the focus ring is turned the camera stops tracking and you can focus manually.
you can't do pre-focus, then stop tracking,
...you can pre-focus manually using the focus ring. Tracking starts if you push the button.
you can't do pre-focus, take a couple shots, then switch back to tracking focus, etc... without changing camera settings.
...you can use the focus ring, it stops tracking, take the shots you want, release the button and push again to start tracking again.
 
I believe this changed between the D700 and D800E. With the D800E it only prevents the shot if the camera has not yet achieved focus. Once focus has been achieved it will take the shot even if the subject has gone out of focus.

One used to be able to Focus Priority to do focus trapping. Can't do that with a D800E, as far as I can tell.
Plus, no one has mentioned the autofocus confirmation beep only in AF-S mode. Call me superstitious, but I like to hear that beep before I fire, whenever I can. I too use the AF-On button with AF-C when things are moving around a lot.
Maybe it was not mentioned because most people don't use it. Mine is switched off and I don't see any use for it since the focus confirmation LED, the green dot, is having the same function and that's in the view finder. Additionally, there is the left/right arrow if you interrupt the auto focus, which indicates the need of left/right turn for the focus ring. There is no sound indication for that.
 
There is no advantage to AF-S (other than focus/recompose, which works OK if you are shooting stopped down quite a bit) and now, when shooting with narrow DOF settings, I have learned to always use AF-C. Once I started going this, my keeper rate soared. I rarely see OOF shots anymore. We aren't nearly as steady as we think we are and subject aren't as stationary as we think either.

I also set focus release for AF-C and I am one of the few who doesn't really care for the AF-on button but I understand why some would. I found I would get lazy and instead of moving the focus point, I would release the AF and recompose out of habit = low keeper rate. I tried it for a while and ended up going back to shutter button AF on, which forces me to move the focus point.
Note to the OP. Using the AF-ON button for focus is a learned behavior. You literally have to train yourself and give yourself enough time to be comfortable with it. Some people don't get over the initial training hump before they decide to abandon it. When shooting soccer games, I'd say it took me 3-4 soccer games before I felt comfortable with it and it started to become second nature.
It is true that using the AF-ON needs some practice and discipline, but...
The disadvantage of using AF-C with "focus on half-press" is that you lose 4 of the 5 focus options that I outline in my previous post. You can only use continuous focus. You can't do focus and recompose,
...this is not entirely true. If you set the camera to AF-C and 3-D tracking then you can do focus/recompose using the half press, but even this needs some practice.
Does anyone really want to use their camera in 3D mode all the time? It seems to me that you're gambling that the camera will figure out what you want it to do rather than taking control yourself and commanding it what to do.
you can't do manual focus,
...this is not entirely true.If the focus ring is turned the camera stops tracking and you can focus manually.
So you're going to press the shutter halfway and carefully hold it halfway and then do manual focus and then, the whole time without losing the half press and without pressing the shutter while your other hand is manually focusing, then you're finally going to take the shot. I'm sure it can be done, but it sure seems like the hard way to me. With the AF-ON trigger for focus, you just manually focus and take the shot.
you can't do pre-focus, then stop tracking,
...you can pre-focus manually using the focus ring. Tracking starts if you push the button.
Same comment above.
you can't do pre-focus, take a couple shots, then switch back to tracking focus, etc... without changing camera settings.
...you can use the focus ring, it stops tracking, take the shots you want, release the button and push again to start tracking again.
Same comment above. There's a reason you separate the two operations - many things get simpler because you don't have to overcome the focus trigger on half-press when you don't want it to AF at that exact moment. You become in 100% control of when it focuses and when it doesn't.
 
Me? With the 800 I switched from AF-S to AF-C.

Why? Even a "static" subject moves. A little. Or the camera moves. A little.

Since using AF-C with modern lenses I have a LOT more sharp images.

When using old lenses (those with no internal drive), its tricky. I have an old 1.4/85mm, and the best bet is to focus in live view...

HTH

Wolfgang
 
There is no advantage to AF-S (other than focus/recompose, which works OK if you are shooting stopped down quite a bit) and now, when shooting with narrow DOF settings, I have learned to always use AF-C. Once I started going this, my keeper rate soared. I rarely see OOF shots anymore. We aren't nearly as steady as we think we are and subject aren't as stationary as we think either.

I also set focus release for AF-C and I am one of the few who doesn't really care for the AF-on button but I understand why some would. I found I would get lazy and instead of moving the focus point, I would release the AF and recompose out of habit = low keeper rate. I tried it for a while and ended up going back to shutter button AF on, which forces me to move the focus point.
 

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