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10D RAW Comparison - C1LE - ACR - SDK

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MichaelT

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I have posted a comparison test (non-scientific) that compares the conversions from a 10D RAW file from each of the following software programs...

Capture One LE
Adobe Camera RAW (ACR)
Canon FVU (SDK)

I am aware that the ACR is not an official release for the 10D but many people are considering it and so I put it in the comparison. When the official version is released the result may be different.

My opinion is that the C1 conversion yields the most natural colors and best detail from this image. You should view and draw your own conclusions. I have also provided a link to a layered Photoshop file of a crop of the image. It is better to compare by turning layers on and off in PS then to view on the web.

I hope that this provides useful information. The test methodology is provided on the web page as is the link to the Photoshop file.

http://pictureflow.com/CaptureOne/Pages/C1-Comp-JD.html

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
 
MichaelT said:
I have posted a comparison test (non-scientific) that compares the
conversions from a 10D RAW file from each of the following software
programs...

Capture One LE
Adobe Camera RAW (ACR)
Canon FVU (SDK)

I am aware that the ACR is not an official release for the 10D but
many people are considering it and so I put it in the comparison.
When the official version is released the result may be different.

My opinion is that the C1 conversion yields the most natural colors
and best detail from this image. You should view and draw your own
conclusions. I have also provided a link to a layered Photoshop
file of a crop of the image. It is better to compare by turning
layers on and off in PS then to view on the web.

I hope that this provides useful information. The test methodology
is provided on the web page as is the link to the Photoshop file.

http://pictureflow.com/CaptureOne/Pages/C1-Comp-JD.html

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
Click to expand...
 
Very interesting. Can you answer this. On the 100% views of the label, it appeared to me that on the small retangular red area on the right of the label that all the methods but the SDK introduced some artifacts on the edges of the red area. Am I interperting this correctly?

Also, even if you turn sharpening off in C1LE, some method must be used in the development of the image, either the soft or standard. Do you know what is used?

Finally, why is noise reduction set in the preferences? Wouldn't it be better to be available on one of the development tabs. I suppose the same would be true for banding. Are the effects of the noise suppression available in the preview windows?

Thanks Jim
MichaelT said:
I have posted a comparison test (non-scientific) that compares the
conversions from a 10D RAW file from each of the following software
programs...

Capture One LE
Adobe Camera RAW (ACR)
Canon FVU (SDK)

I am aware that the ACR is not an official release for the 10D but
many people are considering it and so I put it in the comparison.
When the official version is released the result may be different.

My opinion is that the C1 conversion yields the most natural colors
and best detail from this image. You should view and draw your own
conclusions. I have also provided a link to a layered Photoshop
file of a crop of the image. It is better to compare by turning
layers on and off in PS then to view on the web.

I hope that this provides useful information. The test methodology
is provided on the web page as is the link to the Photoshop file.

http://pictureflow.com/CaptureOne/Pages/C1-Comp-JD.html

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
Click to expand...
--
Photography should be fun

http://www.pbase.com/jcollins
 
Which settings in C1 did you use for Sharpness Michael and do you prefer "Soft look" to "Normal" ? .. I've come to the conclusion that C1LE is the way to get best images from my RAWs but I'm still undecisive whether to use Soft look 60, 3 and sharpen a bit extra in PS7 (tiny amount) or just use normal 60, 3 in C1LE .. It would be interesting to give other people's settings a go for Landscape and Architecture anyway :)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=27855

 
Adam-T said:
Which settings in C1 did you use for Sharpness Michael and do you
prefer "Soft look" to "Normal" ? .. I've come to the conclusion
that C1LE is the way to get best images from my RAWs but I'm still
undecisive whether to use Soft look 60, 3 and sharpen a bit extra
in PS7 (tiny amount) or just use normal 60, 3 in C1LE .. It would
be interesting to give other people's settings a go for Landscape
and Architecture anyway :)
Click to expand...
what settings are you using? I have the PS RAW plugin and really like it but I'm giving the C1LE demo a go to see any differences.
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me
 
I am getting better results with C1 than i was with any SDK (although they were still good) but i am tending more and more to sharpen in post process using sometimes a little USM (i find i need less with C1)

But mainly i use Sharp Control, good little program!
Adam-T said:
Which settings in C1 did you use for Sharpness Michael and do you
prefer "Soft look" to "Normal" ? .. I've come to the conclusion
that C1LE is the way to get best images from my RAWs but I'm still
undecisive whether to use Soft look 60, 3 and sharpen a bit extra
in PS7 (tiny amount) or just use normal 60, 3 in C1LE .. It would
be interesting to give other people's settings a go for Landscape
and Architecture anyway :)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=27855

Click to expand...
--
Equipment list moved to profile if my experiences with it are of use to anyone.
 
I'm Torn between Normal look 60 , 3 and Soft look 60 , 3 + some USM in Photoshop .. I suppose it's better off doing each image to taste but I thought it would be interesting to try other people's examples :)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=27855

 
:
KevinDufff said:
I am getting better results with C1 than i was with any SDK
(although they were still good) but i am tending more and more to
sharpen in post process using sometimes a little USM (i find i need
less with C1)
Click to expand...
So are you disabling the sharpening in C1 then and relying on Photoshop etc? -- I'll give that a go too :)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=27855

 
Yes i am, i think there must still be some sort of sharpening going on internaly though as i am sure i need a little less post sharpening, leaving me with IMO a slightly cleaner image
Adam-T said:
Adam-T said:
I am getting better results with C1 than i was with any SDK
(although they were still good) but i am tending more and more to
sharpen in post process using sometimes a little USM (i find i need
less with C1)
Click to expand...
So are you disabling the sharpening in C1 then and relying on
Photoshop etc? -- I'll give that a go too :)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=27855

Click to expand...
--
Equipment list moved to profile if my experiences with it are of use to anyone.
 
Kevin Duff said:
Yes i am, i think there must still be some sort of sharpening going
on internaly though as i am sure i need a little less post
sharpening, leaving me with IMO a slightly cleaner image
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that the sharper image in C1 is the result of the highly refined Bayer Interpolation alogorith. In many converters (like the SDK), there is blurring that takes place with that stage of the conversion process. Many people forget that there are several steps in the conversion process and that the Bayer Interpolation is one of the most critical. I believe that this is why the C1 results are as they show up in the comparison, in terms of sharpness.

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
 
Jim_Collins said:
Very interesting. Can you answer this. On the 100% views of the
label, it appeared to me that on the small retangular red area on
the right of the label that all the methods but the SDK introduced
some artifacts on the edges of the red area. Am I interperting
this correctly?
Click to expand...
I disagree. I see the following. ACR and C1 are extracting more detail than the SDK. The SDK is blurring this portion, which is why you see no detail. You will see that ACR does add some artifacts, but let me repeat that this is a non-official version, so maybe this will not be the case later. So in this comparison I see the SDK losing detail, as opposed to suppressing artifacts. This is part of the Bayer Interpolation that I describe in a post below.
SVJIM said:
Also, even if you turn sharpening off in C1LE, some method must be
used in the development of the image, either the soft or standard.
Do you know what is used?
Click to expand...
When Sharpening is turned off, no sharpening is applied and so the method is not relevant.
SVJIM said:
Finally, why is noise reduction set in the preferences? Wouldn't
it be better to be available on one of the development tabs. I
suppose the same would be true for banding. Are the effects of the
noise suppression available in the preview windows?
Click to expand...
I agree that the NR would be better elsewhere. This is being considered. I do not believe that the NR is shown in the preview. I will check.

Thanks for your comments..
SVJIM said:
Thanks Jim
MichaelT said:
I have posted a comparison test (non-scientific) that compares the
conversions from a 10D RAW file from each of the following software
programs...

Capture One LE
Adobe Camera RAW (ACR)
Canon FVU (SDK)

I am aware that the ACR is not an official release for the 10D but
many people are considering it and so I put it in the comparison.
When the official version is released the result may be different.

My opinion is that the C1 conversion yields the most natural colors
and best detail from this image. You should view and draw your own
conclusions. I have also provided a link to a layered Photoshop
file of a crop of the image. It is better to compare by turning
layers on and off in PS then to view on the web.

I hope that this provides useful information. The test methodology
is provided on the web page as is the link to the Photoshop file.

http://pictureflow.com/CaptureOne/Pages/C1-Comp-JD.html

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
Click to expand...
--
Photography should be fun

http://www.pbase.com/jcollins
Click to expand...
--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
 
At least that is how it looks to me. If I use FVU and turn off all sharpening, I can do a PS USM on the resulting image of 300/.8/3 and get a reasonably sharp image with minimal ringing and no visible artifacts.

If I use the same USM on a C1 converted image, I get very visible artifacts that look like what happens when you apply USM to an image that has already been sharpened.

This is one of the things that is reducing my interest in C1. I am spoiled by the RIC and now FVU conversions for the D60 and 10D. They may be soft with the no sharpening setting, but you can apply almost unlimited USM and you don't get artifacts.

--Ira
MichaelT said:
Kevin Duff said:
Yes i am, i think there must still be some sort of sharpening going
on internaly though as i am sure i need a little less post
sharpening, leaving me with IMO a slightly cleaner image
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that the sharper image in C1 is the result
of the highly refined Bayer Interpolation alogorith. In many
converters (like the SDK), there is blurring that takes place with
that stage of the conversion process. Many people forget that there
are several steps in the conversion process and that the Bayer
Interpolation is one of the most critical. I believe that this is
why the C1 results are as they show up in the comparison, in terms
of sharpness.

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
Click to expand...
 
Michael,

I am interested in your opinions regarding sharpening in C1:

Which C1 sharpening setting do you recommend for most pictures (soft v. regular, other setting?)

Should sharpening be used in C1 even if the picture is later manipulated in photoshop ?

How damaging would it be to sharpen the picture in C1 and then sharpen it again in Photoshop?

Thanks. Elazar
MichaelT said:
Kevin Duff said:
Yes i am, i think there must still be some sort of sharpening going
on internaly though as i am sure i need a little less post
sharpening, leaving me with IMO a slightly cleaner image
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that the sharper image in C1 is the result
of the highly refined Bayer Interpolation alogorith. In many
converters (like the SDK), there is blurring that takes place with
that stage of the conversion process. Many people forget that there
are several steps in the conversion process and that the Bayer
Interpolation is one of the most critical. I believe that this is
why the C1 results are as they show up in the comparison, in terms
of sharpness.

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
Click to expand...
--
Elazar
http://www.pbase.com/eharel
Canon D60
28-135mm IS USM
70-200mm F/4 L
50mm F/1.4 USM
 
Ira,

Could you post some samples? I'd be interested in seeing the effect you mention.

Dan
Ira Blumberg said:
At least that is how it looks to me. If I use FVU and turn off all
sharpening, I can do a PS USM on the resulting image of 300/.8/3
and get a reasonably sharp image with minimal ringing and no
visible artifacts.

If I use the same USM on a C1 converted image, I get very visible
artifacts that look like what happens when you apply USM to an
image that has already been sharpened.

This is one of the things that is reducing my interest in C1. I am
spoiled by the RIC and now FVU conversions for the D60 and 10D.
They may be soft with the no sharpening setting, but you can apply
almost unlimited USM and you don't get artifacts.

--Ira
Click to expand...
 
Adam-T said:
Adam-T said:
I am getting better results with C1 than i was with any SDK
(although they were still good) but i am tending more and more to
sharpen in post process using sometimes a little USM (i find i need
less with C1)
Click to expand...
So are you disabling the sharpening in C1 then and relying on
Photoshop etc? -- I'll give that a go too :)
Click to expand...
That's what I've always done with all my RAW converters. I've tried a bit of the 'smart sharpening' in Qimage, but I still tend to like knowing exactly what I'm getting and do it myself.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me
 
First don't use FVU. You would think Canon software engineers could do a better job with their own cameras output.

I have never really liked reds in ACR though I actually prefer ACR's workflow. The reds in c1le to me are are just about perfect.

Regards

George Smith
http://www.ksscinc.com
MichaelT said:
I have posted a comparison test (non-scientific) that compares the
conversions from a 10D RAW file from each of the following software
programs...

Capture One LE
Adobe Camera RAW (ACR)
Canon FVU (SDK)

I am aware that the ACR is not an official release for the 10D but
many people are considering it and so I put it in the comparison.
When the official version is released the result may be different.

My opinion is that the C1 conversion yields the most natural colors
and best detail from this image. You should view and draw your own
conclusions. I have also provided a link to a layered Photoshop
file of a crop of the image. It is better to compare by turning
layers on and off in PS then to view on the web.

I hope that this provides useful information. The test methodology
is provided on the web page as is the link to the Photoshop file.

http://pictureflow.com/CaptureOne/Pages/C1-Comp-JD.html

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
Click to expand...
--
GSmith

Create an image today that will make someone's day today.
 
Elazar said:
I am interested in your opinions regarding sharpening in C1:

Which C1 sharpening setting do you recommend for most pictures
(soft v. regular, other setting?)

Should sharpening be used in C1 even if the picture is later
manipulated in photoshop ?

How damaging would it be to sharpen the picture in C1 and then
sharpen it again in Photoshop?

Thanks. Elazar
Click to expand...
Elazar,

Sharpening is different for each image or at least type of image. So best to experiment on your own to see what your tase and preference is.

Regarding sharpening in C1 and then manipulating in PS. If this is the case, then probably best to set sharpening to Off in C1 and do it in PS. It is not good to sharpen twice. A nice feature in C1 is that it allows you to set the sharpening so that you are viewing a sharpened image as you adjust, but it will not sharpen the output conversion. This is an option in the preferences.
--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
 
Why is there no preview of tiff files when there is of jpg?

Its confusing when you browse to a folder and see the message"This folder is Empty"

Sierra Gold
MichaelT said:
I have posted a comparison test (non-scientific) that compares the
conversions from a 10D RAW file from each of the following software
programs...

Capture One LE
Adobe Camera RAW (ACR)
Canon FVU (SDK)

I am aware that the ACR is not an official release for the 10D but
many people are considering it and so I put it in the comparison.
When the official version is released the result may be different.

My opinion is that the C1 conversion yields the most natural colors
and best detail from this image. You should view and draw your own
conclusions. I have also provided a link to a layered Photoshop
file of a crop of the image. It is better to compare by turning
layers on and off in PS then to view on the web.

I hope that this provides useful information. The test methodology
is provided on the web page as is the link to the Photoshop file.

http://pictureflow.com/CaptureOne/Pages/C1-Comp-JD.html

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
(Capture One - YarcPlus - Archive Creator)
http://www.PictureFlow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com
Click to expand...
 
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