Anti-Saddam Rally?

Historically, neither religions nor their leaders
are on my list of things "good for the planet".
Neither they are in mine own.
Understand that America has a REPRESENTATIVE government, ...not a
true democracy. In other words, we don't vote on the issues, ...we
vote to select those who will decide the issues, using their better
minds, info., and hopefully character/integrity than the average
man-in-the-street. If we choose our leaders poorly, ...shame on us!
:-(
Unfortunately, our choice is limited to what is shown there on the shelf! Not so attractive indeed.
Yes I agree, ...my definition of" wisdom" would include recognition
of the fact (when true) that unpleasant/unpopular action may be
required by circumstance.
Quite right - This is the reason why I put W. Churchill and F.D. Roosvelt at the top. Now these ones are just able to turn the wheel to where the wind of opinion polls is blowing. Very poorly skilled mariners indeed. Just pray God to give them the right mix of courage of wisdom, now.
Best wishes (to us all ;-)
Larry
Best wishes from me too.
--
Rapick
 
Understand that America has a REPRESENTATIVE government, ...not a
true democracy. In other words, we don't vote on the issues, ...we
vote to select those who will decide the issues, using their better
minds, info., and hopefully character/integrity than the average
man-in-the-street. If we choose our leaders poorly, ...shame on us!
:-(
Unfortunately, our choice is limited to what is shown there on the
shelf! Not so attractive indeed.
PERFECTLY said !!

Larry (...so we have to do what we can to influence those who are "stocking" the shelves ;-)
 
Hello

Long before we arrived at that point we should have bombed these countries with millions of handheld television with some solar panel as powersupply. Then we should have flooded the airwave with news reports from everywhere around the world, some "star academy", and of course a lot of reruns of gilligan and "I love Jiny".

too bad, it's too late

--
Gaetan J.
 
he is better off posting the pic in http://www.hardocp.com forums or some news site i have a good idea he should post it on rush limbaugh's site ...lol
(2) Jarrell is correct. If you REALLY think that the majority of
the media, beit newspaper, television or whatever, is REALLY
objective you need to wake up and smell the coffee! Newspapers and
television slant their reporting to promote ratings and
subscriptions and to promote the views they feel are correct. THAT
is reality.

(3) It is very apparent that neither side is going to be convinced
to change their viewpoint but the other. We are all wasting our
breath and raising our blood pressure needlessly.

(4) Even though I feel the views of Mathias and Mikeand are totally
wrong and they should wake up to reality, I would defend to the
death their right to express those views. However... NONE OF IT
HAS ANY PLACE IN THIS FORUM!!!

End of story

Larry Vevig
Since you insist..

How the people and banners are arranged is totally coincidental, since

a) I didn´t have the power to rearrange them.

b) I was standing in the one levitated spot I could get to.

But I do think the lack of banners contribute to the balanced
statement of the image.

You should be happy I didn´t do a panorama of the anti-US/Bush
banners there.

That said, would you consider a similar image on front of your
newspaper a political statement on behalf of the newspaper? I
shiver to think that you might would.

Respectfully
Mathias
Besides, I find it rather weird that you jump to thinking that
anti-saddam protesters in Baghdad are pro-war (where 250.000 iraqi
lives could be wasted), and I sincerely doubt that those people
advertised an American invasion.

A protest in Baghdad is a great thing. And I would too have to see
it before I can believe it. Do you have a link to the story?

I am sorry if I have misinterpreted your post as a political
statement.

Mathias
I've seen a lot of pictures, posted for purely non-political
reasons...only for photographic content.

Well, that is great.....Would someone please post some of the
photos from the recent anti-Saddam rallies held in Baghdad.
--
bud guinn
sony.nikon
http://www.pbase.com/budguinn/root
DPReview, PBase supporter
--
All pictures made with my right pointy finger.
How to Prepare and embed pictures here!
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=4033727
Owner and user of 990 and 5700 and Photoshop. When looking at my
pictures, never take it for granted I didn't enhance them.... :-)
--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain
 
tell me what aperture is that? you know what f stop?
Most young people take everything for granted. It isn't until
their baby, mother, sister, etc have been killed that they then
understand. I hate the prospects of many thousands of innocent
people being killed because of war, but I also hate to think how
many would die without it.

I really hope a peaceful solution can be worked out. The thing
that really dissapoints me about all this is that even if there
were a war, it still doesn't address the threat of terrorism. But
that is something that anti-war fanatics haven't figured out what
to do either.

The only way to deal with terrorists is to befriend the countries
where the hate originates to the point that their own people will
turn on the terrorists themselves and stop supporting them and
sympathising with them. And this is a very hard thing to do. And
the sad part is that often the first step is war.
i will tell you another thing suppose saddam gave bio and chemical
weapons to al queada and they use it against me here in new york..
i will come loooking for you and haunt you why you didnt protest
against saddam and for the usa my blood will be on your conscience
You have the First Amendment written there in the Constitution. We
have the same rights granted here in Europe, too (and we owe much
for this to your fathers and grandfathers who came here to fight
for freedom against the two worst tyrant of the last century, and
then stayed here to face the theats from the third one - Stalin).
Poor Iraqi haven't, and never had.
But let me tell this:
I worked a few months in Qatar during the last year. One day at
sunrise I was travelling as usual from Doha city to our workplace
in the desert, sitting aside our van driver (an expatriate from
India, very good boy).
At once we saw a huge USAF cargo plane landing at the nearby US
military base. The driver's comment was "Look, YOUR friends are
coming ..."
The point is:
The guy didn't feel any sympathy for Saddam, or Osama, or any kind
of terrorists and tyrants. On the contrary, as I understood from
different talks, he was proud of the parliamentary democracy of his
own country. Nevertheless, he didn't love USA at all.
Are you aware this is the feeling of a few billions of people in
Asia, Africa and Latin America?
For us (Europeans) it's much more complicated. We have much in
common with US people (basically alll that is understuud as
Western Civilisation ). Most uf us look at your democrarcy as a
model (but also see some degenerative processes there). What really
hurts us, IMO, is the US government ruling over the whole world
with no consideration for our point of view (you vote for them, we
don't), and the arrogant way they are acquainted to use. How can
you pretend our consensus ? Yes, we bear heavy responsibilities
for this (e.g. UE countries UK, France, Italy, Germany, etc. are
never able to build a common foreign policy) it's ridiculous, just
like our military power ... But please consider that a serious
opinion poll here in Italy is showing about 70% of Italians are for
Peace wthout if and without but , i.e. the US war against Iraq
would not be justified in any case. Don't get driven wrong by the
different position of our government: you can like it or not, this
is the majority opinion all over Europe (maybe except Britain).
Also, there is an old man from Poland here in Rome, who strongly
disagrees with the US position on war to Iraq. He isn't a freak!
Please remember he alone made much more for causing the final
collapse of the Soviet power than any Star Shield planned by the R.
Reagan administration!
I would really appreciate your opinion on all that.
Yours sincerely.

Andres Bernhard (Rapick)

PS - Thanks a lot to Phil for letting us debate on the war issue
inside this forum - our lives are not just photography, after all -
and the First Amendment is still there.
--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain
--
Brian
  • C-7OO, and some other stuff
--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain
 
No I'm saying that their rational for not trying to help force this person out of power over the last decade (and now) may have nothing to do with non-violence, but with business... which oddly enough everyone is accusing the US of. They may prefer to deal with the devil that they know because they may not be able to retain those contracts if he's gone. A real and true concern for those goverments about the financial stability of their people... but not exactly the stuff of great humanitarians.

I don't know what the best choice in this matter is. Maybe it's better to take him out now and not have another mad man with really horrific weapons and the means to deliver them nearly any place he wants to. May produce a stable goverment for it's people in a relatively short period of time or not. Maybe it is best to use containment and that will in the end produce a stable goverment there in 10-20-30 years. I don't have any crystal ball. I don't know the best answer. Neither does anyone else. Even for the people who 'know', it is still speculation. Either action or inaction could blow up out of control. Either could be the best choice in the long run... and either could be right or wrong for a whole group of reasons or actions that have not even been thought of or acted on yet. In history you can point to instances where intervention would have likely produced a much better outcome than what happened and instances when it probably made things worse... at least it looks that way from this vantage point.

As to what information is correct I think there is no 'group' that you can beleive in this (most) situations. US govm't, Russian, French, German, hawks, doves, protest groups, radio and television news... they all have an agenda that may be somewhat or a lot different than what they spin out for consumption... ar
Peter Marina
nothing to do with each other. What Irak does have is a big share
of the petrolium reserves, that cant be unapealing to the US
governement...
--
Peter Marina

'...I sometimes try to help the humans...' Cosmo Kramer.
 
NUMBER: 33024

QUOTATION: If Kuwait grew carrots we wouldn’t give a damn.

ATTRIBUTION: Lawrence Korb (b. 1939), U.S. former U.S. assistant defense secretary. International Herald Tribune (Aug. 21, 1990).

On the motives for “Operation Desert Storm.”
 
Hi All,

So far, a lot of opinions have been expressed on the subject.
Should we, or shouldn't we. Here's a CBS report that throws some
light on the quality of USA intelligence.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/18/iraq/main537096.shtml

--
Jim Tan
maybe not, it may be that the intelligence is outdated once it reach the inspectors or that the inspectors themself are not doing a good job.

Beside anything that is reported as being said in private can not be relied upon, if it were private, no one would have heard about it so the news is flawed from the start.

What is more important is that the threat of war from bush as permitted the return of the inspectors. Maybe this was just bush's intention from the begining, the return of the inspectors, not war. Politic is a big bluff game.

--
Gaetan J.
 
The reason for the "why now" is simple : The Hubbert Curve aka Peak Oil.

The concept was created by a Ultra-Conservative expert employed in the oil industry - it's quite simple. Just do a search on your favorite engine for Hubbert Curve or Peak Oil.

Here's one page I came across:

http://healthandenergy.com/peak_oil.htm
Realy funny, I like it. But if it where the case, the US would not
have left Iraq the first time around when the ONU asked them to.

--
Gaetan J.
 
Being funny?? You seem to have no clue about where or how much oil we get from Iraq. Listen up here. We get oil the old fasioned way. We BUY it. Dahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...............

This is about fundalmentalists, bad muslims, bad weapons, rogue states, and serioust threats to Israel the US and others. Grow up. People like you are leading the dems into the ground!!!!

MinoltaMan
 
Being funny?? You seem to have no clue about where or how much oil
we get from Iraq. Listen up here. We get oil the old fasioned way.
We BUY it. Dahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...............

This is about fundalmentalists, bad muslims, bad weapons, rogue
states, and serioust threats to Israel the US and others. Grow up.
People like you are leading the dems into the ground!!!!
There are no "bad Muslims", "rogue states", "fundamentalists", just serious threats to Israel, USA, and others. There are bad leaders, corrupt leaders, deranged leaders, hellbent leaders, but they are not all Muslims.

The USA is the world's superpower and supercop. It HAD to regulate international matters simply because of what happened in the two major World Wars. When some of those states, led by the bad leaders, run afoul, the USA intervenes and maintains order. Who is going to intervene and maintain order when the USA runs afoul?

Learn how to spell.
 
Just a note here, do not hate me that
There are no "bad Muslims", "rogue states",>
I have 2 coworkers who are muslim, one egyptian and the other from .. I dont remember. They do not practice and they hate all muslim from the arab countries. When I asked them about good arabs they told me that most good arabs/muslim are living in occidental countries. Their opinion is that Islam now is at a point comparable to the catholics during the crusades.
Learn how to spell.
English is not the only mother language around the world but we try.

about the oil thing. People saying that this is an oil war should take a look at where the US buy it's oil.

--
Gaetan J.
 
Then look here for some other interesting news about why Russia and France may not be so eager...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/20/eveningnews/main541379.shtml
Hi All,

So far, a lot of opinions have been expressed on the subject.
Should we, or shouldn't we. Here's a CBS report that throws some
light on the quality of USA intelligence.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/18/iraq/main537096.shtml

--
Jim Tan
maybe not, it may be that the intelligence is outdated once it
reach the inspectors or that the inspectors themself are not doing
a good job.

Beside anything that is reported as being said in private can not
be relied upon, if it were private, no one would have heard about
it so the news is flawed from the start.

What is more important is that the threat of war from bush as
permitted the return of the inspectors. Maybe this was just bush's
intention from the begining, the return of the inspectors, not war.
Politic is a big bluff game.

--
Gaetan J.
 
Those who use the knee jerk reaction that this is about oil or the price of oil just show how little they bother to become even semi-informed about what they are talking about. They are typically the ones that are just jumping on the latest bandwagon because they can't think for themselves.

There will always be leaders in the world and the followers. And those that sit on the sidelines and complain about any action that some take. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
 
Hi All,

So far, a lot of opinions have been expressed on the subject.
Should we, or shouldn't we. Here's a CBS report that throws some
light on the quality of USA intelligence.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/18/iraq/main537096.shtml

--
Jim Tan
maybe not, it may be that the intelligence is outdated once it
reach the inspectors or that the inspectors themself are not doing
a good job.

Beside anything that is reported as being said in private can not
be relied upon, if it were private, no one would have heard about
it so the news is flawed from the start.

What is more important is that the threat of war from bush as
permitted the return of the inspectors. Maybe this was just bush's
intention from the begining, the return of the inspectors, not war.
Politic is a big bluff game.

--
Gaetan J.
.... Bush is determined to go in because he outguns the Iraqi. He is not subtle enough nor patience enough to depend on the UN. Anyway, the whole point is that if the US government had real evidence, they would have found a smoking gun by now.

--
Jim Tan
 

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