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meland
Guest
Ah, ha - now there I think you have had a glimpse of exactly what will happen. FF for those for whom nothing less will do. APS-C in a smaller body for those for whom size is a key consideration.
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EOS mirrorless. Is this real?
- Thread starter Edymagno
- Start date
Scott Larson
Veteran Member
Well this isn't "all of a sudden" but back when even ASA 400 speed 35mm film was grainy, the medium needed all the light coming through the lens. Now that sensors can do ISO 3200 with amazing quality it might be time to look at pellicle mirrors again. Throwing a stop away isn't as expensive as it once was.
I don't expect the viewfinder to change until they make the screen refresh damn near instantaneous. Trying to follow action on my Sony NEX 5n's screen has been a joke.
Close - but I'm saying APS-C goes away. You want smaller lenses too, not just smaller body. APS-C lenses just aren't small enough.
Within 7 years I don't see aps-c in existence as it doesn't sufficiently reduce the overall package size - lenses are still too large.
M
meland
Guest
A couple of points on that David. First APS-C DSLRs are quite large and FF versions are even larger. Larger than many of the 35mm film SLRs that many people enjoyed such as the Olympus OM Series, Pentax MX and ME and Nikon FE/FM. It's particularly the depth of a DSLR (flange distance to accommodate the mirror, plus the depth of the sensor, plus LCD screen and rear controls that add bulk. Mirrorless with their potentially much shorter flange to sensor distance can reduce that dimension quite significantly. And then because you no longer need retrofocus designs for standard and wide angle lenses they can be made smaller too.
There any many enthusiasts who don't mind something the size of a 5D or D800 but many find those dimensions and weights quite daunting and certainly not something they want to carry around all day or take on holiday.
I don't think these new cameras have to be rangefinder in style necessarily but given that EVFs will no doubt improve and that the quality from current APS-C sensors is already plenty good enough for many, then a small-ish format 'semi enthusiasts' system could indeed have many many fans. And if it can also accept EF lenses (via an adapter) for those times when you need something long then it could be very useful as a second camera for FF users too.
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meland
Guest
I'm agreeing with you, sorry I didn't make that clear. I also think APS-C DSLRs will disappear.
With film, a mirror was the only way to offer a TTL viewfinder. This isn't the case anymore with digital.
AlterHase
Well-known member
In the film era a mirrorless system did not offer TTL (through the lens) composition of the image. In my opinion this is a key advantage for most types of photography.
Nowadays, a mirrorless system allows TTL composition by displaying the image captured on a screen. First by displaying it on the back of cameras in form of live view now increasingly using an EVF (electronic view finder).
I think mirrorless is the future because if (and only if)
Having said that, I expect that the current (D)SLR form factor will survive the switch to mirrorless, because the form factor (using a EVF instead of a prism assembly) has significant advantages in many forms of photography (stability) over the current smaller form factor cameras. The latter obviously have the advantage of being smaller. So - both will happily coexist.
Nowadays, a mirrorless system allows TTL composition by displaying the image captured on a screen. First by displaying it on the back of cameras in form of live view now increasingly using an EVF (electronic view finder).
I think mirrorless is the future because if (and only if)
- EVF has been improved to comparable level to optical view finders (OVF), and
- phase detection auto focus have been worked out to function without a mirror (as supposedly - I don't have personal experience - in the Nikon 1 or the most recent Canon Rebel)
Having said that, I expect that the current (D)SLR form factor will survive the switch to mirrorless, because the form factor (using a EVF instead of a prism assembly) has significant advantages in many forms of photography (stability) over the current smaller form factor cameras. The latter obviously have the advantage of being smaller. So - both will happily coexist.
David Hull
Veteran Member
Well... Sony seems to be going down that path and they seem to have the sensor tech to support it.
I agree. I have not looked through the NEX VF but I played with the Fugi Xpro (or whatever it is) and was totally unimpressed. I actually thought it was awful -- not even close to ready for "prime time" IMO.
In principle, I agree that the mirror "could" eventually be a thing of the past, but the desire for the WISIWIG VF that the SLR brought to the game remains unchanged and the so-called "mirrorless" concept is probably not going to replace it until it provides a user experience to match that provided by the DSLR.
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David Hull
Veteran Member
I agree. It is for many of those reasons that I have a G11.
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David Hull
Veteran Member
I think they have to get it working better though -- just a matter of time, I suspect.
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M
meland
Guest
Me also!
I think it will be: "use your fingers on the touchscreen"
jsmiller
Leading Member
Film only reveals its image much later when it is developed, while digital sensors display the TTL image essentially in real time. That'swhat has changed. I have a 5D III and an Olympus OM-D. It is fascinating to directly compare them, and shooting with both convinces me at least that mirrorless will come to dominate over DSLR in the not too distant future, even in the pro arena. We are not quite there yet in performance, but there are so many advantages to mirrorless designs that there is tremendous incentive to progress in this technology. The EVF is the key (fast, accurate focus has already be solved), and display tecnology is prgressing very rapidly. They don't have to go far to surpass all but the very top DSLRs, and even those can be surpassed eventually. Just as people still use film, I believe that there will people who insist on DSLRs for a long time, though.
Joe
Mirrorless cam may be the future for you, I am not about to mount a 300 2.8 on a mirrorless any time soon, I didn't upgrade to the 5D3 either, I went with D800E for my landscape replacement and debating to go 1DX or D4 for event and sport camera replacement to replace all my 6 or 7 year old 1DS2 1D2,. But I do have one Sony NEX 7 mirrorless for the time I need a small camera, but mirrorless is the future of the camera? no kidding.
To replace pentaprism finders sure, but to replace the dark tunnels that are low end pentamirrors?
Before getting into the Sony Nex system, I waited to see Canon's answer, hoping for a mirrorless Canon that can leverage my EF lenses. I finally bit the dust, and bought a Nex-7.
With this "rumor", and a new mount EF-M, there is no advantage of the Canon mirrorless over the Sony. The Nex-7 have "allegedly" (since we don't know yet the spec of Canon) similar sensor size, possible better DR/IQ (Sony sensor vs Canon), both are incompatible with my Canon lenses and would require adaptor,.. not enough reasons to dump the Nex-7 for the Canon M.
It all depends on the following:
. Autofocus speed with native EF-M lenses
. Availability of an EF adapter that allows autofocus
Otherwise, as far as I am concerned, i may end up selling my canon lenses on ebay.
With this "rumor", and a new mount EF-M, there is no advantage of the Canon mirrorless over the Sony. The Nex-7 have "allegedly" (since we don't know yet the spec of Canon) similar sensor size, possible better DR/IQ (Sony sensor vs Canon), both are incompatible with my Canon lenses and would require adaptor,.. not enough reasons to dump the Nex-7 for the Canon M.
It all depends on the following:
. Autofocus speed with native EF-M lenses
. Availability of an EF adapter that allows autofocus
Otherwise, as far as I am concerned, i may end up selling my canon lenses on ebay.
huh? It looks like an S90/95/100 with a lens mount and a flash port to me. Not a looker, but hardly ugly.
As for the talk of mirrorless taking over...wake me when the battery life gets 4x better. I can take 1000 shots with a 7d and still have half a battery (don't have figures for my III yet) and aside from unusually dark situations can see much better through my optical viewfinder. There are times where I could appreciate the size reduction (esp with underwater housings), but the battery situation remains the biggie.
bobn2
Forum Pro
Yes, it's real. Those are clearly Canon product images.
Look's like a 'me too' product, doubtless it will sell, because it's a Canon, but hardly inspiring.
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Bob
Earthlight
Senior Member
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