Resolution of cinema theaters are 2k only?!

leemoh

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I just read in an expert blog that: Most digital cinema theaters have 2k projectors (!!).

If this is the case why the heck pros are scrambling to get cameras that produce 4k or 5k?

Isn't this a waste of money, efforts and post processing time?!
 
Same reason cameras have many more MP than what is needed for the output.

For example: If you downsample a 4K to 2K it will have more detail than a native 2K.
 
I just read in an expert blog that: Most digital cinema theaters have 2k projectors (!!).

If this is the case why the heck pros are scrambling to get cameras that produce 4k or 5k?

Isn't this a waste of money, efforts and post processing time?!
Distribution and acquisition are two different things. It's not just resolution, it's the bit depth and compression. Just like pay or cable TV data rates are very low.

"oversampling" or shooting at higher bit depths, with less compression and more resolution is ideal. That also hasn't stopped a lot of people using resolution that is less than 2k when story or budget drives that choice.

Does resolution matter ? It seems to....There are a million films you haven't seen that are only shot on consumer or SD cameras.

Even the 5Dmk2, which has been around for several years...there are very commercially or even indie successful films that have been made using them exclusivly.

jb

--
John Brawley
Cinematographer
Sydney Australia
http://www.johnbrawley.com
http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/
 
I just read in an expert blog that: Most digital cinema theaters have 2k projectors (!!).
4K projectors are available, and over the next few years you will see more theaters installing them.
If this is the case why the heck pros are scrambling to get cameras that produce 4k or 5k?
I'm not sure that many Pros are scrambling to get them. Although a lot of Wannabees seem to want them.

Arri is doing fine with their 2K Alexa http://www.arri.de/camera/digital_cameras Many feature films, world wide are shot with the Alexa.

A lot of DPs like the picture from the 8 bit 1920x1080 Canon C300, which isn't even 2K http://www.cinemaeos.usa.canon.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=canon%20c300&utm_campaign=Cinema+EOS

Also a lot of Wannabees want Slo-Mo (high frames per second), but not many Hollywood DPs or Directors use Slo-Mo.
 
I just read in an expert blog that: Most digital cinema theaters have 2k projectors (!!).

If this is the case why the heck pros are scrambling to get cameras that produce 4k or 5k?

Isn't this a waste of money, efforts and post processing time?!
No. You can easily see the difference between HD 1080p and 4K (about 4000 by 2000 pixels), and 4K is impressive. Apparently, in the front rows of a big screen 1080p looks quite grainy and not very nice to look at.

Increasing the number of pixels in one dimension by 50 per cent is not a huge increase, but doubling it already is.

Don't believe anybody who claims that HD at 1080p is all that is needed and that higher resolutions cannot be distinguished from 1080p. The story here is the same as with still cameras: 2 megapixels is completely different from 8 or 16.
 
Just to clarify...

1080 refers to vertical resolution while 2k refers to horizontal resolution.

1080 is 1920 wide x 1080 high (16:9)

2k is 2048 wide x 1152 high (16:9) or

2K with an aspect ratio of (2.39:1) would be 2048 x 856 pixels

So in terms of visible resolution 2K won't look any different to 1080.

In a normal home viewing environment up to say around a 60" screen 4k won't make a great of difference to most over 1080P unless you get real close.

Sitting in big theatres near the front will provide some benefit but those seated nearer the back probably won't notice much difference.
 
The same reason many of the people here prefer 14 bit RAW even though they will only ever be seen as 8 bit jpgs, the excess data gives one tremendous flexibility for editing.
 
Let's remember:

Not much amateur (or even enthusiast) is ever viewed on a screen larger than 50', and a lot gets viewed on YT at the default 480p resolution at around 3mpbs, using only a small box on the screen, since higher rates cause many people's connections to gag and require buffering, and the content probably doesn't warrant the added wait or trouble.

Theater audiences generally flock to action, kiddie animations, or romantic spectacles that don't benefit a lot from higher resolution, although I'd bet that portions of the special effects sequences of "Hugo" and similar works were done in labs at 8k, then downsampled to 4k.

The advantages of downsampling are purely notional. The HF G10 is probably the best prosumer videocam, yet its sensor is only 2k. Large pixels and less downsizing give it better low light performance.

No one will want to buy a 4k screen if it costs 4X a 1920x1080 screen and there is no 4k content besides upscaled 2k.

I'd be tickled to see a side-by-side comparison of FF DSLR video against that shot with an HF 610, a m4/3 camera, and the $5k JVC 4k videocam. Zacuto could probably do this, but won't bother, since its target clients have money to spare for fancy stuff, and there's no gain in showing how you can attain 90% of the IQ for 10% of the cost of a RED.

More theaters or public conference and exhibitions may invest in 4k equipment, but not have much 4k content to display, and audiences may be more interested in the quality of the beer and appetizers served, as they browse there iPhones, during the show.

The idea of shooting in 4k so that one can crop when editing, as can be done all the time with still photos, is appealing, but takes a strong PC, lots of time, and mastery of the pro-grade editing software products. Meanwhile, most people never edit video at all, and lots of stuff posted at Vimeo shows only rudimentary editing.
 
You make some excellent points. To me there are only 2 reasons why there will be 4K devices available in the general maketplace:

1. To satisfy the people who always think "more is better." For these folks having 4K will just make them feel better, and they will spend their money because of that.'

2. To provide actual improved results for people who take the time to get proper equipment in place.

I like to think I'm in the #2 category...but I am yet to be convinced 4K will be worth the added cost. I currently have a 42" HDTV on which I show my GH1 AVCHD videos at full HD resolution. I edit them with Vegas and that has full native support for 1920x1080 AVCHD video.

On my TV i can see the difference between DVD and HD video, and I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of HD (2K) vs 4K video where 4K was used for both capture and playback. Of course there would have to be some edit software with native 4K capability too.

My guess is all this gear would cost more than the increase in perceived image quality would be worth, but that remains to be seen.

As far as movie theaters goes, I've not seen anything anywhere about distributors upgrading their digital video projectors to 4K. Heck, most of them are still complaining about the cost of installing 2K projectors.

Finally, there are the current financial problems Sony is experiencing. Some people have said Vegas is about to die (I sure hope not) and there is the big Sony layoff inthe near term. My guess is this will only stunt the progression of 4K in the professional world.
--
Birk Binnard
http://www.birkbinnard.com/photography
 
Some people have said Vegas is about to die (I sure hope not) and there is the big Sony layoff inthe near term. My guess is this will only stunt the progression of 4K in the professional world.
FCPX can handle 4k video, with the right plug-ins. In fact, JVC has posted a plug-in to combine 4 x 2k files shot with its $5k 4k videocam, but not for Premier, Avid, or others. Other workarounds may appear, although the market for the JVC device may be small, so I'd not hold my breath.

Sonycreative has always been something of a loss-leader intended to complement videocam sales. If the parent exits HDTVs and software, it begs the question: who would design the 4k software for the "4k ready" NEX FS700? Or who would build a 4k blu-ray (not upscaled 2k!) if FCPX is the only realm where 4k gets edited. Apple's disdain of optical media is well known, but the 4G bill to stream a 4k video on an iPad (absurd, of course) would be a princely sum.

Consumer 1080 60p video appeared two years ago, yet we are still without any efficient (non geek) way to share edited 1080 60p.

Sonycreative, Avid, Corel, Magix, and Roxio have all found it hard to make any money publishing video editing software. Premier may break even, or not, depending on how Adobe allocates costs. If Apple makes a 100% margin on every gadget it sells, shareholders won't notice or care whether FCPX wipes out others or not. They'd worry more about Samsung.
 
easy question, easy answer. there r displays right now that can handle 4k video, so if u have a 4k recorder, and a 4k display, u can watch your 4k recorded footage which looks better than any commercial production there is. yet. there is not enough material in the market as far as movies, for the cinemas to justify buying those projectors. very expensive, very little material. it will catch on just like hd did back in the day, and then later there will b another upgrade. eventually we will have like 25k video and 1080p will look like caveman resolution.
 

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