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What happened to Canon sensor development?
- Thread starter carlk
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Ogjetaknight
Forum Enthusiast
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia 
according to dxo tests you appear to have made the wrong assumption re DR... it's way ahead of 5d2 and even better in parts than d4... surprise surprise..
and when I compare 5d3 to 5d2 sensor results, when printed a4, a3 and a2...well i'm sorry for anyone who has chosen not to upgrade or can't afford it...
as the bloke at adorama said..."it's a no-brainer"
and all this misinfo from people who don't own the cameras is boring...so goodbye again!
and when I compare 5d3 to 5d2 sensor results, when printed a4, a3 and a2...well i'm sorry for anyone who has chosen not to upgrade or can't afford it...
as the bloke at adorama said..."it's a no-brainer"
and all this misinfo from people who don't own the cameras is boring...so goodbye again!
bobn2
Forum Pro
You know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
rwbaron
Forum Pro
IMO people are blowing this issue completely out of proportion. I don't frequent other photography forums but my guess is this is mostly a DPR thing with all the tech heads around here.
In the real World photographers of all types will continue to capture incredible images with Canon cameras. No doubt that Canon's sensors currently do not measure as well as some of Sony's but the important question is is do they perform well enough? The fact is for the vast majority of photographic applications there is absolutely no real difference in the output including large prints. Many pro sports and PJ's exclusively shoot JPEG's and care more about the quality of the JPEG engine than the RAW file. Parameters other than low ISO shadow noise are far more important as their images rarely are tweaked much if at all.
This is the simple ebb and flow of business and in no way spells doom for Canon. Honda had a significant advantage in engine and suspension technology for years but has that enabled them to become a dominant vehicle manufacturer? Sony also had the best tube television (Trinitron) and the best VCR (Betamax) but where did that get them in the consumer market? They never dominated either and the much better Beta system was run over by the inferior VHS due to licensing and marketing. Want to compare Apple and Microsoft?
Like a few others on this forum you're looking at this with a very narrow view IMO and missing the big picture (pun intended).
Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
In the real World photographers of all types will continue to capture incredible images with Canon cameras. No doubt that Canon's sensors currently do not measure as well as some of Sony's but the important question is is do they perform well enough? The fact is for the vast majority of photographic applications there is absolutely no real difference in the output including large prints. Many pro sports and PJ's exclusively shoot JPEG's and care more about the quality of the JPEG engine than the RAW file. Parameters other than low ISO shadow noise are far more important as their images rarely are tweaked much if at all.
This is the simple ebb and flow of business and in no way spells doom for Canon. Honda had a significant advantage in engine and suspension technology for years but has that enabled them to become a dominant vehicle manufacturer? Sony also had the best tube television (Trinitron) and the best VCR (Betamax) but where did that get them in the consumer market? They never dominated either and the much better Beta system was run over by the inferior VHS due to licensing and marketing. Want to compare Apple and Microsoft?
Like a few others on this forum you're looking at this with a very narrow view IMO and missing the big picture (pun intended).
Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
Bernard Carns
Senior Member
They're paying more attention to that than DR and pixels.
BC
BC
Ogjetaknight
Forum Enthusiast
True the video quality of the 20d is terrible since it has no video capability, but I think the advancements in very small sensors like phone camera has been so rapid simply because there was so much ground to make upYou know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
rwbaron
Forum Pro
Yeah and twenty years ago we had audio systems that actually sounded good and then technology brought us Bose Wave Radios, Sirius, MP3 files and IPOD's and everything sounds like sh!t. Now we've got a gazzillion channles of audio on movies and broadcast but you can't understand the dialog. Let's hope the advancements in audio don't happen in imaging.
Bob
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
Bob
--You know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
bobn2
Forum Pro
Actually, that is wrong. The video quality of the 20D is perfect since it has no video capability. 0 times anything = 0.True the video quality of the 20d is terrible since it has no video capabilityYou know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
--
Bob
whatever in the process to make a decision to postpone the huge investment.
Canon have a tradition to spend more in automation than factory operators.
that's why they can have most of products made in Japan.
Canon is driven by both the technology and entrepreneurial spirit.
they are very good at making the right decision when and how to improve.
they may do things wrong, of course.
Canon have tons more technology than Nikon, who rely heavily on external sources
(which doesn't instantly mean bad).
Ogjetaknight
Forum Enthusiast
blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all
that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
Very good point with audio most people went with what was cheap but got the job done. Same thing is happening with cameras. The phones are getting good enough that fewer and fewer people will bother with a dedicated camera. You can still get really good audio but it's very expensive. I wouldn't be suprised to see the same thing happen with photography.
Ogjetaknight
Forum Enthusiast
Lol trueActually, that is wrong. The video quality of the 20D is perfect since it has no video capability. 0 times anything = 0.True the video quality of the 20d is terrible since it has no video capabilityYou know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
--
Bob
Bose is sh!t as it always has been but have you ever heard a lossless Dolby/DTS 9.2 Audyssey calibrated system from a good blu-rey source? It's pure heaven if you haven't.
Yeah and twenty years ago we had audio systems that actually sounded good and then technology brought us Bose Wave Radios, Sirius, MP3 files and IPOD's and everything sounds like sh!t. Now we've got a gazzillion channles of audio on movies and broadcast but you can't understand the dialog. Let's hope the advancements in audio don't happen in imaging.
Bob
--You know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
CanonFanBoy
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Carlk,
I am 101% with you as I share the same thoughts as you!!!
I am a fashion and life-style photographer, 95% of my work requires me to work with base ISO around 100ASA. To me, photography is all about painting with lights ... how I express my vision is thru' the way I control and modify the lights in my pictures. To preserve the highest picture quality, my work usually requires me to work with the camera's native iso, unless it is a creative decision not to. For years, I have been tempted by the image quality of Medium Format, but have been holding my hoses for the move over, as I found many of these medium format companies have been operating on survival mode as the gap between medium format and full frame starts to thin out. Since the first release, every generation of 5Ds, I have been hoping and longing Canon's R&D can work on improving the sensors' colour depth and dynamic range to match that of medium format but has ever since been disappointed.
And ... now ... when I found Nikon's latest D800 triumphs many medium format on its sensor technology ... said DXO lab ....
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Nikon-D800-Review/Sensor-performance
I am really filled with a contort of emotions ... the good thing ... It is the beginning of an new era .... where medium format doesn't have the real edge for commercial photography any more .... the bad thing is ... why Canon is not the one who is leading this revolution?!!!!!
I am 101% with you as I share the same thoughts as you!!!
I am a fashion and life-style photographer, 95% of my work requires me to work with base ISO around 100ASA. To me, photography is all about painting with lights ... how I express my vision is thru' the way I control and modify the lights in my pictures. To preserve the highest picture quality, my work usually requires me to work with the camera's native iso, unless it is a creative decision not to. For years, I have been tempted by the image quality of Medium Format, but have been holding my hoses for the move over, as I found many of these medium format companies have been operating on survival mode as the gap between medium format and full frame starts to thin out. Since the first release, every generation of 5Ds, I have been hoping and longing Canon's R&D can work on improving the sensors' colour depth and dynamic range to match that of medium format but has ever since been disappointed.
And ... now ... when I found Nikon's latest D800 triumphs many medium format on its sensor technology ... said DXO lab ....
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Nikon-D800-Review/Sensor-performance
I am really filled with a contort of emotions ... the good thing ... It is the beginning of an new era .... where medium format doesn't have the real edge for commercial photography any more .... the bad thing is ... why Canon is not the one who is leading this revolution?!!!!!
Skiwi33
Forum Enthusiast
Nah Bob - you're hearing is going. It's called "old age" ;-)
Had some friends over the other night, a nice bottle or 2 of pinot and dusted off some records (those flat disc-shaped vinyl thingy's). The old Linn got a bit of a fright, but struggled manfully without any digital. Anywhere. I was amazed at how it could cope. And only 2 channels! Priceless.
Had some friends over the other night, a nice bottle or 2 of pinot and dusted off some records (those flat disc-shaped vinyl thingy's). The old Linn got a bit of a fright, but struggled manfully without any digital. Anywhere. I was amazed at how it could cope. And only 2 channels! Priceless.
Yeah and twenty years ago we had audio systems that actually sounded good and then technology brought us Bose Wave Radios, Sirius, MP3 files and IPOD's and everything sounds like sh!t. Now we've got a gazzillion channles of audio on movies and broadcast but you can't understand the dialog. Let's hope the advancements in audio don't happen in imaging.
Bob
--You know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
Scott Larson
Veteran Member
Yeah my brand new Samsung phone has eight megapixels... just like my 1D Mark II had eight years ago. It tops out around ISO 200 while my Canon was decent up to ISO 1600. What amazing amount of development.
If the picture quality of cell phone cameras were the goal, I'm sure Canon would have developed a fifty million pixel sensor that was unusable past ISO 800. The problem is that only a few would buy it and the rest would laugh at it.
rwbaron
Forum Pro
Unfortunately there is some truth in what you wrote
.Two channels have always been just fine for me.
I've still got a small collection of those flat disc-shaped vinyl thingy's but nothing to play them on. I did acquiesce to CD's decades ago and downsized my system but I remember when the first thing most young people did when they got their first real job or graduated college was to buy a decent two channel audio system. Sadly, those systems from 30 or 40 years ago sound better than what most people have in their homes today.
Bob
--Yeah and twenty years ago we had audio systems that actually sounded good and then technology brought us Bose Wave Radios, Sirius, MP3 files and IPOD's and everything sounds like sh!t. Now we've got a gazzillion channles of audio on movies and broadcast but you can't understand the dialog. Let's hope the advancements in audio don't happen in imaging.
Bob
--You know that's not what I meant. Just that amazing amount of advancement has happened to even the cell phone camera in a few short years.
On the other hand I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot video with my 20D. ;-)
I have the iPhone 4s and it takes good pictures for a phone but my 8 mp 20d totally blows the 4s IQ away there is absolutly no comparison. I'll bet my 20d would beat the Nokia easily as well. There is much more to IQ than megapixels but if megapixels are all that are important to you the choice is easy get the Nokia
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
rwbaron
Forum Pro
Maybe it's time for someone else to carry the flag for awhile. Playing second fiddle for a long time didn't seem to hurt Nikon.
Canon led the MP, CMOS and FF revolutions and I doubt we've seen the end of their innovation. My guess is we'll see a high MP sensor body from Canon within the next year.
Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
altair8800
Senior Member
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I hear the Nokia sensor will be in the 5D3s due in a couple months.Funny you....
What about all the Nikon upgrades in the past...something with only adding the letter "s"
There is more to an increasement then only the MP !!!
If it is MP you are after buy the Nokia 41mp....
Dan
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