Why do people defend their equipment?

I actually didn't mind it at all at first. I hadn't been seriously into photography in about 30 years, when I was using fully manual film SLRs. Then a few point and shoot's over the years and this was my first experience with a "better" digital camera. And I was OK with it - never occurred to me not to like it...

UNTIL...

I bought a Canon S90 to have a truly pocketable camera. Then I tried an ep2 in a shop and it was all over. I bought the ep2, loved the ep2 so much that I sold the epl1 when I got back.

-Ray
I think this is really interesting, actually, since it really illustrates what we all bring to the table in terms of what we need most from the cameras we get and what compromises are acceptable and what are not....

I came to M43 from a similar background but different path.....I had (still have, actually) a Pentax MX...full manual fim camera and a few lenses. However, over the years, I started using simple snapshot cameras for everyday stuff instead of the Pentax, for three reasons:

1) I am not, nor have I ever been, a speedy manual focuser. It is not one of my talents and never will be, unfortunately.

2) I did not have the money to buy a flash for the Pentax, and I found that I was limited in my indoor photography endeavors because of that.
3) It was a pain in the rear end to carry around a big bag of camera gear.

So, from about 1989-1999, I primarily used a P&S nikon 35 mm for my primary camera, and I did very little other than just snapshot photography at that point.

In 1999, I got a Nikon N80 film camera; nice SLR with autofocus and an on camera flash, and I never really got into it that much, in part due to some other things that were happening in my life at the time.

In 2002, I got my first digicam, a 2 MP Toshiba (of all things), and it was a revelation. It was as slow as molasses, but for the first time I could take as many photos as I wanted and work on my technique, and see my results instantly, without having to come up with serious cash for film developing, too. I have a few images from that camera that I still really like, too...

A series of cameras of increasing capabilities ensued; Sony F717 (nice camera but kind of large for a compact, and I just could not get the kind of detail out of it that I wanted), Sony P52 P&S to carry around; then a Canon S60 (finally, a portable with Aperture priority, but OH MY was that slow to focus!).

Finally, it dawned on me that for the kind of image quality and flexibility I was searching for, I probably had to look into a DSLR (this was just around when the price of these things was starting to come down to less than the cost of a used car). In 2006 I found myself in a position to finally buy one, and got a Nikon D200 with the kit lens, which was supposed to be quite good.

I think I was a bit disappointed in it initially; sharpness and vibrance of the images were not great out-of-camera, and I had to do the whole learning curve thing about the medium again. I realized that the kit lens, which had great reviews BTW, did not give me a pleasing color balance, and I sold it and got the cheaper kit lens (which I think has fabulous color, oddly enough :) )

HOWEVER....as I continued to grow and learn the medium again, I found that I was having difficulty carting around the D200 since it was just plain HEAVY. My S60 was the go with camera that I ended up using more (until it fell about a foot to the floor and messed up the lens....and I replaced it with a Canon SD870IS (which is about the size of your S90, but without the manual capabilites.)

Fast forward to 2009.....I sold the D200 and bought a D90, and was thrilled with its IQ. I really preferred it to the IQ of the D200, and wonder of wonders. my wrist and neck did not hurt from carrying it around. Still, for everyday use, it was simply JUST TOO BIG. I wanted a camera that gave me close to that IQ without the size.

I thought long about getting a G11 or G12, and also the S90 or S95, but that felt like going backwards again. I still had my tiny Canon P&S, and I could not see getting another tiny sensor camera, even if it was improved and greatly adjustable, since it would not give me DOF control or low noise in darker situations.

So, when I first read about the proposed M43 format, I got very excited...here potentially was a camera that could give me the flexibility, portability AND IQ that I had been looking for in one package!

Of course, the first ones that came out were not exactly what I was looking for.....The first PEN camera was gorgeous, but I knew I wanted an on-camera flash (been there, done that with the Pentax and knew I had to have one...), and the first Panasonic seemed too DSLR-like in style, so I waited.

The EPL1 had all the features I wanted in a smaller body and with IBIS and the on-camera flash, AND it was in the budget, so that was the one I went with.

I am sure that I would have seriously considered the EP2 except for that darned on-camera flash thing, too...but the EPL1 fits my needs, fiddly buttons and all, because of the features it has and what can do image wise.

I am hoping that they continue to improve this format camera, since I think it has just huge potential. It solves so many of the portability issues with the DSLRs and yet has IQ that rivals them. If they can get their sensor technology up, and work on the autofocus technology, I can see M43 being just a major, major player in the photographic arena for a very long time to come. (Have I mentioned yet that I am happy with it? :) )

-Janet
 
people will irrationally ignore the facts support a brand/camera/lens just because they own it.
I find the Panasonic fanboys the most aggressive people that defend their cameras.

If they paid $1k for their new toy (read gh2), it doesn't even matter they have no idea how to use it, it's THE BEST camera in the world.
 
Because people invested thousands of euros in their equipment. Nobody wants to confess that this investment was in vain.
 
I still find it shocking how people will irrationally ignore the facts support a brand/camera/lens just because they own it.
In my experience the Internet has an unfortunately pervasive lack of tolerance for the other guy's point of view. No two people are alike, and every person has different needs and preferences. That makes the best choice for one person different from the best choice for another. But so many people seem to be ignorant of this basic fact.

Take the dial vs. touch-screen argument, for example. I tend to be a dial person because I've been shooting cameras with dials for over 40 years. But that doesn't make someone "wrong" for preferring a touch screen. Younger people these days are growing up in an environment saturated with touch-screen devices, and it should be pretty obvious that their preferred way of doing things can be different.

The huge variety of features and capabilities and cameras and the differing ways of comparing them is a recipie for this kind of infighting. You get one person ranting that a camera is no good because of one set of things, while another person raves about it because it has other thing(s) he happens to find desirable. And for some reason these they don't seem to be able to acknowledge that the other person can have a different but equally valid opinion of exactly the same piece of equipment.

Differences like these account for most of the disagreements I've seen on the Internet. It seems to be the nature of the beast.
 
And why are you worried about it?

In any discussion group about products the discourse will be on the pros and cons. People tend to patrol. They aren't "defending" their choices, they are reminding others of the pro's you forgot to mention, the con's you whitewashed, the incorrect information you are spreading, the opinions you are stating as facts...

I mean, if you read some d-bags who post here, you would think Panasonic fanboyz are enthusiastic about the GF2...
 
Some probably do it because of ego. Some because they think they are right. I think one of the troubles in the MFT forum is that various brands are included, whereas in other forums they are separated.

Myself I've seen incredible work done with all. Every brand, every camera has it's strength and weakness. It's up to the photographer to use the strength, and find workarounds to the weaknesses. This is a technical forum and site, but it's the photograph that counts in the end, not the equipment it was made with.

http://www.pbase.com/madlights
http://barriolson.aminus3.com/

Like the Joker said: Why so serious?
 
Because all cameras are engineered devices they all have trade offs.

I respect all the technical trade offs. I have less empathy for the M8/M9 lovers were everything is overpriced on objective grounds, and the cost is mostly for look and feel and snobbery, in my view.

4/3 as a system is interesting both micro and full. I certainly find even APS-C finders small so I find the m4/3 much more interesting than 4/3. On a logical level a square format makes the most sense. Because the lens projects a circle, the reason film was wider than high for 35mm probably has mostly to do with a canister size trade off, it is interesting to see that propagated forward.

4/3 was the monitor aspect ratio of choice for a time. Now that is being propagated forward. I have a lot of respect for rethinking the system that Olympus did. Olympus makes some amazing optics for science I use all the time.

Because of my own past I find composition for 3:2 more natural but feel bad about throwing out sensor resolution.

Getting back to my original point, it is clear what the trade offs are in each system, some are to save money, some are to save size or space. I think we should just agree on them.

The only really odd thing in this neck of the woods is "Olympus color", now I admit I am red-green color blind but as I shoot RAW pretty much exclusively I don't get all the focus (no pun intended) on JPEGs. A photograph is a moment in time that will never happen again why would anyone want to use JPEG even for a mundane shot, the only place I can think of is for shooting rate at some sport even maybe.

I feel like m4/3 will be the Canon/Nikon of the MILC (mirrorless-interchange-lens-camera), unless Sony designs a lot of lenses very quickly. I doubt Samsung has a chance outside Korea at this point.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbryce/
 
But then I haven't read a lot about the GH2 as I have no interest in high end video features. I am very much focused on stills. I probably should get a 5D mkII and call it a day, I can't think of any application that needs more than 20 MP for personal use.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbryce/
 
I agree with you. I think touch screens will last longer than wheels because of how they are physical made. I only dislike touch screens sometimes not registering a press, which of course happens less and less as the design is optimized. Which is to say I like wheels somewhat more. I think the number of buttons should go down as much as possible. My ideal camera has a shutter, a mode wheel and an on/off switch, a second wheel for shutter/f-stop either the click in kind like panasonic or the canon type with a nearby button. The rest could be touch screen as far as I care. I think a button for everything is cluttered. I guess I like wheels for things that used to be wheels because I started with wheels.
---
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbryce/
 
people will irrationally ignore the facts support a brand/camera/lens just because they own it.
I find the Panasonic fanboys the most aggressive people that defend their cameras.

If they paid $1k for their new toy (read gh2), it doesn't even matter they have no idea how to use it, it's THE BEST camera in the world.
Wow, behold the forum crusader in his (or, unlikely, her?) fervant quest to kill and dismember all new m4/3's offspring. But the only thing you've accomplished with your trash talk, Panpen, is to make a fool of yourself - totally irrevelant and discounted. That, and making obvious a real hangup (?envy + contempt?) about what others choose to spend on their gear.

Remember how you totally ignored the lovely GH-2 photos offered you in the GH-2 rant you started a while back asking for real world samples? And get this - The guy must have seriously thought you were looking for some good GH-2 photos! What a laugh! You knew they had to be bad, but when you saw they were reeel goood, cognitive dissonance must have set in and thrown you into a state of catatonia, from which you seem to have recovered to become even more the spiteful child.

A shred of evidence that you have anything in the photographic world that would show some basic level of competence and the tools to really evaluate a camera might have lent a bit of weight to your opinions, but all I've seen only confirm that you've at least found the shutter release button:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=37644123

Disclaimer: I own a GH-1 (GH-2 body when avail.), E-PL1/VH-2, Panny-Leica 14-150, Panny 7-14 and 20/1.7, and Oly 4/3 50-200/2.8-3.5 + EC-20 2x extender - each superb in it's own ways and capable of producing stunning 17x22 prints.

I could give less of a flip about the GH-2's video ability, but it's faster AF, ability to AF-S my 50-200, 2 stops more banding-free high ISO performance, and 15% higher res. and file dimensions sold me.

So I have about $5000 invested in gear that will give me currently as good IQ at "normal" ISO's as I feel you can get in a crop body, covering the huge range of EFL's from 14-800mm, all of which I use pretty regularly.

Call me an OlyPannaLeica fanboy for now and you'd be telling the truth - a fanboy for the best gear that fits my varied needs, whoever the maker happens to be.
 
Is it just insecurity, human nature?
It's called the internet, where immature peoples just love to get into keyboard-fight. Dianne B. used to post here, she likes Pana cams and not the pens. But she only said: "I realized that the Pen is not for me!". That's it! not a single word more about the cam she doesn't like. And she didn't bother to get into arguments/fights to defend her beloved G1. That's a mature, confident and secure person. And a great photographer too!

But there's also another poster who is super-moderator of another forum. But she behaves almost like a troll here (she has been in my ignore list for a long time so I don't know if she changed.) Being a super-moderator of a forum I thought she would know better.
 
When I see what is out there today as far as quality of photos, why does it matter??

Hand full of good photographers

I think one would be better off learning how to take better photographs, less processing ( the new plastic look in photos and Wow factor), and developing their instincts as a photographer

Good photographers can use anything almost and the photo will look good

Bad or run of the mill photographers can have the best most expensive hasselblad or Leica most e nd the photos will still look bad

Sometimes peoples perception of a photo is when they learn it was taken by certain equipment with this phenomenon be fueled by the photo mags

Be secure and develop you own instincts then equipment will be a secondary issue

--
http://www.corot.smugmug.com
 
'Tis funny, this self-confirmation that many of us seek. Still, when you look at the broad sweep of the content contained in, for example, this thread it truly represents a great depth of consumer information. Where else can you find out about the hidden ergonomic and other virtues and vices of our gear? The published reviews, mostly, do a poor job of this.

In my young adulthood i couldn't afford my own gear (for the most part), but just used my employer's Nikon gear. And that did the trick . . . and i quickly learned what gear / features i needed/used and what i left in the bag or never messed with. I've striven -- even though i now can (within reason!) afford any of it -- to only acquire gear that contributes to the photos that i take.

But there is so much crud on the net and in the marketing hype. So i take a few moments a week to contribute my two cents . . . maybe it might save someone some frustration.

Or not. My art will still be the same.

-- gary ray

--

Semi-professional in early 1970s; just a putzer since then. interests: historical sites, virginia, motorcycle racing. A nikon user more by habit than choice; still, nikon seems to work well for me.
 
I know that people want to be right and all, and I used to post here (dpreview) regularly, but have been away. Anyway flurry of posts because I decided to get a used GF1, and I still find it shocking how people will irrationally ignore the facts support a brand/camera/lens just because they own it. Moreover they seem to take it very personally if you don't like it.

I find that very strange. Why care what some random person thinks. Why insist what you have is somehow the best.

Is it just insecurity, human nature?
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbryce/
I was thinking you were talking about people defending their 'equipment'. I was thinking, I can understand why, you own it. As for defense of inanimate objects, who's to know. Moreover, do we really need to care to the point that we have to explore it? Is DPR now a psychology forum? To that end, here's a link for inquiring minds, to explore this pressing issue and any other life troubles. Enjoy.
http://www.uncommonforum.com/
--
joe
 
Separate the religions so they don't fight? ;-) I guess they can blissfully think they are the best in the universe that way.
Whoooaaa. I didn't say I was in favor of it, just that it's how it is, and it does lead to some defensiveness in the MFT forum.

Every one has different needs. A landscape photographer doesn't need 8FPS for example. I think it's great when people point out the strengths and weaknesses of camera systems, we can all learn from it...maybe that which we can use, or work around.

--
http://www.pbase.com/madlights
http://barriolson.aminus3.com/

Like the Joker said: Why so serious?
 

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