Reading mode: Light Dark

If only Fuji had come up with something like this.

Go to last post
DPReview has just posted some NEX samples after receiving a production copy. This doesn't seem to be related to one bad lens sample.

See foliage at bottom of this picture.

 
Yeah but thats the ZOOM , Sony are reknown for making Crap kit zooms so I'd not expect any better, especially at the long end , the other (awful) shot posted above was with the 16mm Prime ..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
Danny ~ sorry for the confusion... What ever mount Sony is using on this new little camera, is also the mount they are going to use on the HD video cams with interchangeble lenses. I have always wished for a consumer HD video cam that I could put some fast lenses on.

--
'Nothing is worse than active ignorance'

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
 
SHood said:
Everyone seems to be jumping all over these, but take a look at the optical portion of the IR review. Also, look at the samples from Lenstip (lack of details especially with foliage). pliki.optyczne.pl/sony2010/sample...asonic LX3 definitely produces better images.
Click to expand...
 
altis said:
My money is on Fuji coming out with one using an EXR sensor. There's a gaping wide space at the top of Fuji's range now and they need to do something with this sensor.
Click to expand...
You assume too much. Fuji has been in retreat at the top end for several years. First leaving the DSLR world behind and now, possibly even the high end bridge world. Fuji seems to be driven forward and run by the marketing group. The HS-10 is a spec monster that look great on paper and has all kinds of "features" that get the masses excited.
 
It seems like Sony is putting more emphasis on the high ISO (low light) quality and are willing to sacrifice low ISO and overall IQ with this new NEX line and the BSI sensors. Must be the new trend.
CAcreeks said:
SHood said:
Everyone seems to be jumping all over these, but take a look at the optical portion of the IR review. Also, look at the samples from Lenstip (lack of details especially with foliage). pliki.optyczne.pl/sony2010/sample...3 definitely produces better images. [/QUOTE]
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
There in the business of selling cameras and have obviously decided/learnt that more users buy bridges than enthusiasts do. I'll simply classify users as being those who may not be as discerning as an enthusiast when comparing IQ. This means a spec sheet full of options does better particularly when cameras produce images that are atleast acceptable - subjective I know.

To a DSLR user the camera falls short, same for some bridge owners but then to a user they have greater than acceptable IQ for most. Some people just want to take snaps and won't notice smearing and for that matter the burnt highlights which any camera can produce.

We really are debating whether this camera is suitable for enthusiasts and more discerning users, for typical users however only those discerning purchasers will notice shortcomings.
 
Danielepaolo said:
There in the business of selling cameras and have obviously decided/learnt that more users buy bridges than enthusiasts do. I'll simply classify users as being those who may not be as discerning as an enthusiast when comparing IQ. This means a spec sheet full of options does better particularly when cameras produce images that are atleast acceptable - subjective I know.

To a DSLR user the camera falls short, same for some bridge owners but then to a user they have greater than acceptable IQ for most. Some people just want to take snaps and won't notice smearing and for that matter the burnt highlights which any camera can produce.

We really are debating whether this camera is suitable for enthusiasts and more discerning users, for typical users however only those discerning purchasers will notice shortcomings.
Click to expand...
The biggest rise in sales in the last year was in the Micro 4/3rds market. Fuji are in fact members of that consortium yet they have still chosen to ignore it!

Paul.
 
AdamT said:
Oly's 17mm Clunker of a pancake is better than that ......
Click to expand...
Totally different lenses. You are talking about 34mm v 29mm. Maybe it was a bit of an ambitious lens for Sony to bring out as I never seen a APSC consumer prime even at 20mm (30mm) with stellar performance.

I guess it's one of the reasons that Panny kicked off at 20mm (40mm). Even at that, fast rewind a few years ago when in-camera lens correction was unheard of....that 20mm lens would have been branded as a heap of junk too despite it's excellent sharpness. The only saving grace for that lens was the neat in camera/software correction trickery. Without it, that lens would be shown up as medioce and troblesome to use with it's high vigenetting and distortion.

Samsung kicked off at 30mm (45mm) and managed to get their lens optically near spot-on. Pity they opted for the sensor that they did though. But again, big difference between 45mm to 29mm. Maybe Sony should have done the same and not have been so ambitious.

But the most important factor that you have overlooked is that your EP1 gets smoked at high ISO, and more than likely it will get smoked in DR also given that the D300s/D90 already is 2/3s of a stop to the good in the highlights with a similar sensor.

That would be more of a worry to me and to Oly/Panny than getting upbeat about what junk lenses Sony brought out first time around. Lenses will be a lot easier to sort out than sensors. The m4/3s sensors are nearly at it's peak IMO and the Sony sensor is clearly a good 1 EV better. I can't see Oly/Panny getting even close to that in the next 2 years given the slow progress in sensor technology especially in 4/3s and m4/3s. After 3 models of cameras, Oly has only improved it's ISO performance on the EPL1 by about 1/3 of a stop in about 12 months. Panny is lucky to have gained that 1/3ev improvenment to in the new G's.

So unless I didn't need shallow DOF or good ISO performance, I would take my chances and buy into a APSC like system going forward. I would expect that Sony, Zeiss or third parties will bring out better lenses quicker than Oly or Panny will be on improving their sensor to match even this Sony offering. That is going to be the key issue going forward, not lenses.
--
Stephen
 
Stephen 06 said:
The only saving grace for that lens was the neat in camera/software correction trickery. Without it, that lens would be shown up as medioce and troblesome to use with it's high vigenetting and distortion.
Click to expand...
Well there's no In-camera trickery for this lens on the EP1 I use it on and it's still a stellar performer
Stephen 06 said:
But the most important factor that you have overlooked is that your EP1 gets smoked at high ISO, and more than likely it will get smoked in DR also given that the D300s/D90 already is 2/3s of a stop to the good in the highlights with a similar sensor.
Click to expand...
but it doesn't use the D90 sensor does it?, it uses a more pixel stufffed one so we'll see .. I'm not saying that the Sony BODY is worse than an EP1 , I didn't even mention the EP1 until now, I was on about the Sony 16mm lens being worse than a crappy Olympus pancake (which isn't as good as Oly the Kit zoom) -

my point is that if it can't do better than that then don't bother and instead make an 18 or 20mm one- a system is only as good as the lenses for it (For instance, thankfully us EP1 owners have PANASONIC glass as an option !!) , Sony are poor at 18-55 type kit zooms to begin with (and the one for this is no better from the samples) so that's a no show too. Tamron, Sigma and Tokina have showed no interest whatsoever in making M43 glass so don't expect any Sony ones either.

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
SteveJL said:
This one looks like an interesting/exciting entry into this genre.
Click to expand...
The only things wrong with that IMO are the lack of Raw converter support (WHY are Phase one stubborn about not supporting it when they support the K10 and K7 which are basically the same RAW wise) and the lack of lenses - at least the lenses out for it look good. - it's a G1 alternative of course and not GF1/EP1/NEX5

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
danny_only said:
bushi wrote:

First to impress other people, you should have seen people mounting a BIG LONG white canon tele lens onto a white GF-1, COOL :)
Click to expand...
...see, that's hilarious, even if cool :D
danny_only said:
As for manual controls.

See the zoom ring?
See the focus ring?

For aperture control on lenses without aperture ring, I need an adapter with aperture control, something similar to Novaflex. The one in the picture is for control of Pentax modern lenses which do not have aperture ring.
Click to expand...
...I haven't touch this kind of stuff, so I can only judge by what I see, but it doesn't look very firm to hold/convenient to operate. That's my point.

Regards,
 
... Looks very interesting.

There is an optional optical viewfinder. The Sony site has pictures of it but little information. Not sure how it works with framing focal lengths. Would prefer an EVF.

DPR have put up sample images and they look fairly good. Seem to lose highlights a little, and images look a little 'washy', but that could be just how it is setup.

Looks like very good high ISO performance though.

Who knows ? Maybe Fuji will do something similar.

Cheers.
--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.

My HS10 Stuff - http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_HS10_00.htm
My RedBubble Site - http://www.redbubble.com/people/pixplanet
 
That Ricoh is a work of Art next to the Canon Pro90 (which looks like a Toy Raygun or at least one from a 1970s budget Sci-Fi series) and Pro70 which is just plain ugly .. I think Olympus take the biscuit for creating the most ugliest digital cameras though Samsung have had a few howlers . Sony haven't had any real Fugglywugglies (the R1 got closest) but a lot looked lke camcorders

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
Taxiback said:
The biggest rise in sales in the last year was in the Micro 4/3rds market. Fuji are in fact members of that consortium yet they have still chosen to ignore it!
Click to expand...
I did not know that Fuji is a member of the consortium! It would be nice to have an EXR body that takes Olympus or Panasonic lenses!!
 
AdamT said:
Adam-T said:
This one looks like an interesting/exciting entry into this genre.
Click to expand...
The only things wrong with that IMO are the lack of Raw converter support (WHY are Phase one stubborn about not supporting it when they support the K10 and K7 which are basically the same RAW wise) and the lack of lenses - at least the lenses out for it look good. - it's a G1 alternative of course and not GF1/EP1/NEX5
Click to expand...
I have it and while it's a surprisingly nice cam to use, but they need to sort out some issues. The biggest ones being more NR control for the jpeg shooters and to slim down the raws files (25mb) so it will write faster to the card for raw shooters like me. But it one of those type of cams that just fits like a glove like Nikons do with me.

--
Stephen
 
AdamT said:
Well there's no In-camera trickery for this lens on the EP1 I use it on and it's still a stellar performer
Click to expand...
Sorry Adam, but you don't know your own camera too well. It does use trickery.

Shot taken with my EP1 and 20mm and raw + jpeg fine selected. Raw image processed in Raw Developer at default settings which doesn't use any software correction. It is clear that there is software correction in distortion. And the image is slightly cropped too as a result. Just look at the bit of shadow on bottom left on RD image. It is cropped out on the jpeg.








Adam-T said:
Adam-T said:
But the most important factor that you have overlooked is that your EP1 gets smoked at high ISO, and more than likely it will get smoked in DR also given that the D300s/D90 already is 2/3s of a stop to the good in the highlights with a similar sensor.
Click to expand...
but it doesn't use the D90 sensor does it?, it uses a more pixel stuffed one so we'll see ..
Click to expand...
Well we don't have to wait and see the high ISO performance. The images are under your nose there, and the reality is that this pixel packed sensor is leagues ahead of our m4/3s by at least a stop. Let us put up our hands and face a bit of reality here. And you can be dammed sure that this sensor is going to have a little better DR too despite being a little more stuffed. It didn't seem to effect it's ISO performance, did it?


Adam-T said:
I'm not saying that the Sony BODY is worse than an EP1 , I didn't even mention the EP1 until now, I was on about the Sony 16mm lens being worse than a crappy Olympus pancake (which isn't as good as Oly the Kit zoom)
Click to expand...
I wasn't on about the body either. I was on about the lens too. It will be a lot easier for someone to sort that out shortly. But it is also clear that Panny and Oly are not finding it easier in the short term to get more out of there m4/3s sensor. Looking ahead, I can see APSC outgunning m4/3s when the lenses get sorted. It is only a matter of time were we will have a D5000 Kxx v E620 like situation, but in a smaller format. History will repeat itself. You can't defeat the law of physics.
-

--
Stephen
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top