Is DOF really important?

Zamac · Nov 13, 2009

Well, it certainly is to me, and I suspect to anyone who is in the least bit serious about photography.

So, of DOF is important, why does Sony think that A5XX level photographers do not need DOF preview?

Sony did not think when it came to this feature.

OK, DOF preview is pretty useless through the view-finder for anything much less than wide open. But , with manual focus live view it could be invaluable combined with magnification and brightness compensation.

So Sony thought we did not need it, or thought it could be used as a model-level feature (bad idea - Canon lost me as a customer by excluding essential features in the level of camera I could afford) or they thought about it too late - and found that aperture close-down was directly linked to the shutter release and could not be activated other than by direct mechanical means.

Much the same argument applies to MLU, even though I seldom need it.

I will still buy the A550. I will use aperture bracketing for stationary subjects, as I have done in the past, but I will remain disappointed in Sony.

Glenn · Nov 13, 2009

I've had one single frame where DOF preview would have prevented me from missing a shot. But with the state of the VF on digital it doesn't get used often and eventually forgotten altogether. I could have saved the shot with a glance at the screen but it was too late by the time I did.

the occasion I'm describing was a shot of a ferry boat passing in front of a waterfall. Nice scene. but I had to shoot through a fence. looking through the VF of course the fence was invisible and I just timed the shot for composition but I had forgotten open the aperture. the resulting shot showed the fence clearly and ruined the shot. If DOF preview had been more usefully in other more normal circumstances I might have been in the habit of using it. So even though I have a real world example of it's usefulness I have to say that it's dismal display in other circumstances renders it not reliable enough for consideration anymore. I reprogrammed the Burton for focus hold and don;t use that either preferring the MF button instead
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inFocus · Nov 14, 2009

... in smaller viefinders. It is far more useful in A900.

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What's that noise?

Barry Fitzgerald · Nov 14, 2009

inFocus said:
... in smaller viefinders. It is far more useful in A900.

You should add

"useless to you"

Not everyone will share your view. Sure DOF preview is better on larger viewfinders. I have 7 A mount bodies (most film obviously) Every single one bar the A200 has a DOF preview, do I use it..yes!

Even on the Km5d..
So no it's not useless..not to some of us

If Sony included a DOF preview on the A5xx models, nobody forces you to use it..but some will.

Verulanium · Nov 14, 2009

Hi,

With the electronics in cameras it should be possible to indicate depth of field on the LCD using flashing or coloured pixels to indicate out of focus areas for the selected apature. This would eliminate the need for a depth of field button to stop down the lens, and solve the problems associated with small viewfinders.

Tim

Frenske · Nov 14, 2009

I never used the DOF preview button on my KM5D. The reason, it dims the light and in less than perfect light condition it becomes hard to see through a less than perfect viewfinder.

In my opinion the DOF preview button works best with big bright viewfinders (which the A550 does not have) and with fast lenses such as 85mm f1.4 and 135mm f1.8 (which most A550 owners don't have. Most of time I use my knowledge of and experience with the camera and lens and make the right choice for aperture.
I would not consider it a big loss if left out.
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http://frenske.zenfolio.com/

gpr2020 · Nov 14, 2009

Barry Fitzgerald said:
inFocus said:

... in smaller viefinders. It is far more useful in A900.

Click to expand...

You should add

"useless to you"

Not everyone will share your view. Sure DOF preview is better on larger viewfinders. I have 7 A mount bodies (most film obviously) Every single one bar the A200 has a DOF preview, do I use it..yes!

Even on the Km5d..
So no it's not useless..not to some of us

If Sony included a DOF preview on the A5xx models, nobody forces you to use it..but some will.

You've got a point there. So what to do if you definitely need the DOF? Buy a camera that has it! Very simple! Then if the manufacturer you chose does not have it, go to see the others. Competition is always good.
--
In reviews we do not trust !

andy forey · Nov 14, 2009

Member said:
So no it's not useless..not to some of us

speaking on behalf of other people - ?

andy forey · Nov 14, 2009

i have to admit when i had my first camera a practica it had a DOF and all it seemed to do was go dark ..... im not sure i get it as a facility either. Maybe with very fast lenses or FF and above ... but i suppose i prefer to "shoot on the hoof" and DOFis pretty useless.

If i know i want shallow i go faster if i want deep i go smaller.... i would love to see a camera with it on and see if you can really tell .... first thing i will do if i get a a900

Richard B. · Nov 14, 2009

I have found DOF in the viewfinder is a very useful tool. I use it in my A700 and I found it useful with KM5D even with its darker viewfinder. LCD's on on the other hand I have not found very useful for landscape work due to the wide range of light you can experience with landscape photography. I am sure there some applications were LV with DOF will work well, but LV based features just not "must haves" for me.

Zamac said:
OK, DOF preview is pretty useless through the view-finder for anything much less than wide open. But , with manual focus live view it could be invaluable combined with magnification and brightness compensation.

--
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http://www.pbase.com/richard_b

Zamac · Nov 14, 2009

..as I said. I was complaining about the lack of DOF preview with main-sensor preview.

Zamac · Nov 14, 2009

Verulanium said:
Hi,

With the electronics in cameras it should be possible to indicate depth of field on the LCD using flashing or coloured pixels to indicate out of focus areas for the selected apature. This would eliminate the need for a depth of field button to stop down the lens, and solve the problems associated with small viewfinders.

Tim

An interesting idea. However, with macros especially, I am interested in the gradation of sharp to out of focus rather than an all-or-nothing indication. This would apply to some portraits as well.

Nordstjernen · Nov 14, 2009

You don't get what you see -- a viewfinder will not show DOF like the finished picture. There are lots of variables, like the size, clearness and structrue of the groudglass, print size, viewing distance etc. For this reason I very seldom use DOF check with my cameras, not even the A900. Instead I rely on experience when setting the apertude value, and check the LCD -- which also is a bit tricky, but more to rely on than the viewfinder.

gpr2020 · Nov 14, 2009

Nordstjernen said:
You don't get what you see -- a viewfinder will not show DOF like the finished picture. There are lots of variables, like the size, clearness and structrue of the groudglass, print size, viewing distance etc. For this reason I very seldom use DOF check with my cameras, not even the A900. Instead I rely on experience when setting the apertude value, and check the LCD -- which also is a bit tricky, but more to rely on than the viewfinder.

I agree with you there. With digital camera, the DOF is not that important anymore. Not as important as it used to be on film camera. There as been a big evolution in photography with the digital era. Things that used to be very important with film are less crucial now days. I think is just that some of us adapt fast to the new technology, others no and are a bit nostalgic of "We used to do it that way before".
--
In reviews we do not trust !

flakin stephen · Nov 14, 2009

I completely agree with gpr.

With film to some extent we were shooting blind, and couldn't even confirm if the exposure was right until hours or days later. Polaroid sold bucket loads of film to professionals to check what the image actually looked like. So DoF preview was a step in the right direction.

Whilst on one hand I would begrudge any camera that had fewer useful features than my old OM-2, the screen on the back is worth so much more.

cheers
Flakey
--
flakey

mscottc · Nov 14, 2009

gpr2020 said:
Nordstjernen said:

You don't get what you see -- a viewfinder will not show DOF like the finished picture. There are lots of variables, like the size, clearness and structrue of the groudglass, print size, viewing distance etc. For this reason I very seldom use DOF check with my cameras, not even the A900. Instead I rely on experience when setting the apertude value, and check the LCD -- which also is a bit tricky, but more to rely on than the viewfinder.

Click to expand...

I agree with you there. With digital camera, the DOF is not that important anymore. Not as important as it used to be on film camera. There as been a big evolution in photography with the digital era. Things that used to be very important with film are less crucial now days. I think is just that some of us adapt fast to the new technology, others no and are a bit nostalgic of "We used to do it that way before".
--
In reviews we do not trust !

Thst is simply just not true. With all the Minolta cameras I've owned, I constantly use DOF preview as I'm framing/composing a shot. A quick press of the DOF preview gives me a quick glimpse at what the potential aperture setting's affect on focus/DOF will be on my final product. I do not have to take the time to take a picture and then view it on the LCD. It's right there for that brief instant before I push the shutter button, I can then make the decision to change the exposure values or not a whole lot quicker then with any other process. I personally would NOT buy a camera without DOF preview. To answer Nordstjernen, is it perfect, no... but it is still far better than anything short of actually viewing the image on a large screen or print.

beakydave · Nov 14, 2009

Nordstjernen said:
You don't get what you see -- a viewfinder will not show DOF like the finished picture.

That may be strictly true, but it does not make DOF preview redundant. It is a case of knowing your camera, since it is all relative. Once you know how the DOF seen through the viewfinder translates to the output it becomes very easy to use the preview, and I make good use of it. Of course, if I have time, I can always check LCD afterwards to be absolutely certain, but there isn't always a second opportunity, so I prefer to get it right before pressing the shutter. But it's only my preferred way of doing things - others may differ.

KEITH-C · Nov 14, 2009

I would tend to agree that DOF is less essential/useful on a small VF camera like the A550 but I still think that MLU is useful & will keep giving my opinion on this ..... I may have stated this in other threads but it is relevant to this discussion & new forum users join these forums on a daily basis & so may not have read previous threads.

I still have not seen an explanation from Sony for its omission although some have suggested that it is because Sony have used a cheaper shutter assembly. It will be interesting to see if Sony drop MLU from the A700 upgrade ,if it ever comes, in order to please those users who say it is unnecessary.
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Keith-C

gpr2020 · Nov 14, 2009

KEITH-C said:
I would tend to agree that DOF is less essential/useful on a small VF camera like the A550 but I still think that MLU is useful & will keep giving my opinion on this ..... I may have stated this in other threads but it is relevant to this discussion & new forum users join these forums on a daily basis & so may not have read previous threads.

I still have not seen an explanation from Sony for its omission although some have suggested that it is because Sony have used a cheaper shutter assembly. It will be interesting to see if Sony drop MLU from the A700 upgrade ,if it ever comes, in order to please those users who say it is unnecessary.
--
Keith-C

MLU is important to some and me. I agree with you. Sony decided not to include it in their lower end model. That's their right, after all they own the business and have their reasons. But Sony have been providing the a700, a850 and a900 with MLU. So we still have choice and can buy what fit our needs.
--
In reviews we do not trust !

Marti58 · Nov 14, 2009

gpr2020 said:
MLU is important to some and me. I agree with you. Sony decided not to include it in their lower end model. That's their right, after all they own the business and have their reasons. But Sony have been providing the a700, a850 and a900 with MLU. So we still have choice and can buy what fit our needs.

not entirely true ..because not all people can fork out that money.

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