Is DOF really important?

[Zamac]

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Laisse tomber, tout ça m'ennuie

Happy shooting (and I do admire your pictures)!

 

[gpr2020]

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and more snip

Laisse tomber, tout ça m'ennuie

Happy shooting (and I do admire your pictures)!

Faut pas venir lire les forums dans ce cas.
Looking forward to see your pictures !
--
In reviews we do not trust !

 

[mscottc]

Jeez, from my Oly OM-1 to my Canon 7d, they all have DOF preview. It doesn't work. What you see in the viewfinder isn't what the DOF will be. This is for a variety of technical reasons, but it's kind of a useless feature. Who would blame them for eliminating it, and I'm not even a Sony user. Got to concentrate on what's important.

If DOF is so important, take the picture and preview in on screen, Will work 100% better than the viewfinder.

That may be true for you, but for decades, experienced (and even novice) photographers have successfully used DOF Preview, and it has helped them capture their images right on their first attempt. As said over and over again in this thread, not everyone wants to take a picture, pull the camera away from their eye, check the picture, pull the camera back to their eye and take another picture. Some of us want to get it right the first time, and DOF Preview allows us that option. Is it perfect, NO, but than nothing really ever is. I can check DOF in half a second, release the button and shoot multiple images in less time than you can take one shot, check it, and then take your corrected shot. BTW, you've most likely then missed that once in a lifetime opportunity. Learn to use it, just like you learn to use the various metering and the various autofocus modes and you become a better photographer.

Based on the way the anti-DOF Preview people are talking, we should buy cameras without exposure meters as well, and everytime we take pictures, guess at our aperture and shutter settings, take a picture, look at it and adjust as needed. Sorry, I won't do that, and I don't think you would accept that either.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Based on the way the anti-DOF Preview people are talking, we should buy cameras without exposure meters as well, and everytime we take pictures, guess at our aperture and shutter settings, take a picture, look at it and adjust as needed. Sorry, I won't do that, and I don't think you would accept that either.

Exactly..

But we know these posters will support sony come what may, the word "improvements for users" does not enter their heads.

Most folks can see DOF preview as useful..few would argue against it.

 

[GaryW]

If DOF is so important, take the picture and preview in on screen, Will work 100% better than the viewfinder.

This statement alone says a lot about the photographer that made it. Go ask the pros if they think DOF is important.

DOF or the DOF Preview button?

With me, DOF is an important part of composition. And I think about composition before I press the shutter. As little as a degree of shift in the focus plane can make or break some of my photos. And in my macro it's mostly living, moving animals. Playing the lottery that it's aligned properly after the fact would be endless.

I could only see DOF Preview as useful for macro. Perhaps a lot of people don't do much of that, and thus don't see the need? When not doing macro, I'd just rather look at the result on-screen, as I can also check other things such as the sharpness, shadow detail, etc.

Missing the same point as everyone else. The viewfinder DOF may not be the same as the output (though it's pretty close on the A700), but once you have learned how to interpret it, it is just as accurate as any other method. It's far from useless for those that can't easily use the LCD screen. And, how do you 'preview' a shot after you've taken it? Surely you mean 'review'? By which time, the moment may be lost and you don't have the opportunity to re-take.

If they are shooting RAW then preview might be the right word as they are not looking at their shot but a lower quality jpeg preview. Only way you can look at your actual shot 2 seconds after taking is if you are a jpeg shooter.

What about RAW+JPEG? (JPEG is my preference, but I'll use R+J if I'm doing something particularly special and I'm not that worried about memory.)

So maybe all these folks that are playing with the LCD are jpeg shooters?

Walt

--
Gary W.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

I could only see DOF Preview as useful for macro. Perhaps a lot of people don't do much of that, and thus don't see the need? When not doing macro, I'd just rather look at the result on-screen, as I can also check other things such as the sharpness, shadow detail, etc.

Well useful for a number of subjects, portraits too...and erm just about anything that has DOF in it!

More to the point, find me a single user who would complain about having a DOF preview button, and being able to see the true DOF via sensor live view.

Nobody..

Simple as that..

For the sake of a few pence, Sony have left out a useful feature...not something anyone should defend..

 

[tbcass]

Way back in my early film days I used to use DOF preview a lot when trying to get just the right amount of DOF when trying to isolate the primary subject against the forground and background. After a while I got to know the camera and lens settings so well that I no longer needed it and haven't used it in 30 years (even though my cameras have had it). That's why lack of DOF preview is no big deal to me.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

 

[raminolta]

My point of view (taken with grain of salt): DOF preview is useless in digital cameras at any level!

Back in the days of film, being able to verify DOF in the field could have been important for two simple reasons:

1- One could not verify the result right after taking the shot. One had to leave the field and wait until one was able to develop the film.
2- Film was costly and one had to pay for one's mistakes.

Using DOF preview is not easy. Even in the days of film, I found it was a pain. When aperture is closed down, I could barely see the scene and had to wait for quite a while until my eyes get used to the darkness. This could only work wen the camera was on a tripod and I has enough time to check DOF which was rarely the case. Even if it was a landscape to shoot, the lighting could rapidly change leaving little time for time consuming tasks.

Instead, I learned to develop a sense of DOF based on the aperture used and the distance of the main subject from the camera. It reasonably worked good.

In the digital age, I actually never use it. Instead, I can simply check the result right away by magnifying the picture to check details. If needed, I take another picture right away. Since digital is cheap, I can even bracket in shutter seed priority mode and take 2-3 shots in different apertures. I find both of these alternative solutions work better than DOF preview comes to us from ancient times when it was certainly useful in certain situations.

I wouldn't oppose having it available on the camera when one needs it or want to use it. I am not like those who say since they don't want video, Sony should not implement it in their DSLR's. Actually, I promte the idea of having DOF preview for those who want it. I am just saying I personally find it a useless feature. On the contrary, video and live view are two modern features and I find them useful.

 

[Alpha Jack]

Okay, reading this is getting tiresome. I do think it is an important topic so will give my .02 tiresome response. IMHO, to think that any kind of LV or preview on an LCD is going to give you enough to decide if you are in focus or not is a bit naive. How many time have you seen a stunning image on the back of your camera only to be disappointed later because what looked so sharp on a small screen looked out of focus on a real screen or print. In the time it would take me to analyze a shot by pixel peeping I can change the aperture setting and take another exposure. And DOF preview on an optical view is often too dark to tell anything although I do use it on occasion. In critical shots I do my own 'aperture bracketing' and decide later which one I like best.

I also use the DOF guide on the lenses I have that have scales. I find that to be conservatively accurate on a FF-challenged sensor since it will have a greater DOF than the scale. Also, I recently downloaded an iPhone app that calculates DOF and hyperfocus. I haven't used it yet, but if anyone is interest, there are at least a dozen apps that do it ranging from free to about $10. I assume similar apps are available for Blackberry.

My experience has been though that once I am really comfortable with a lens and camera, I really don't need calculations or previews. I just know intuitively how it will look.

Peace!

--
Zeiss taste...Beercan budget!

 

[Zamac]

I have an A100, but occasionally I take out an old film SLR just for the nostalgia of looking through a great pentaprism OVF. I love a great OVF.

But...

the economics of camera manufacture, if nothing else, and going to drive all but, perhaps, the top level cameras into the EVIL camp. This is not necessarily bad for photography, the ultimate (if anything can be called ultimate) role of the view finder (or LCD) is to display exactly what will be seen in the captured image - framing, colour, brightness and focus ( including DOF ). When that time come, let's hope that Sony does not forget the DOF.

 

[cgarrard]

"Well, it certainly is to me, and I suspect to anyone who is in the least bit serious about photography. "

For some shots that I've sold, I don't know if I ever would have taken them without DOF preview. It is a tool and if used correctly (and often enough) can really help a photographer with the expression process of a photograph.

Invaluable to me, completely invaluable.

Carl

http://www.AlphaMountWorld.com

 

[andy forey]

i personally have seen any haters on here of MLU or DOFP and i would be happy to have it on my camera and there maybe moments when i would use them, but i dont have it...but i think the so called haters have started speaking up because of the obsessive "lovers" and repeaters keep talking about the same subject what ever the post is. and some how wish to magic it on to cameras that dont have it and seem to be suggesting that they are not real SLR's unless they have such facilities. So as that great song writer said - BM,"every action has are-action"

Actually I view their push to do it all on the LCD as a push to remove the OVF and substitute a EVF. It's not a simple reaction, it has a purpose. A purpose to radically change DSLRs to non-DSLRs. In this, as in so many areas their push runs up against the reality that LCD LV cannot fully substitute for the OVF. So they deny the existance of those areas.

Walt

Blimey that was a sureal --- very "spanish painter that was a bit crazy"

 

[GaryW]

I could only see DOF Preview as useful for macro. Perhaps a lot of people don't do much of that, and thus don't see the need? When not doing macro, I'd just rather look at the result on-screen, as I can also check other things such as the sharpness, shadow detail, etc.

Well useful for a number of subjects, portraits too...and erm just about anything that has DOF in it!

Macro is particularly sensitive to having a narrow plane of focus and needing adjustment. With other subjects, including portraits, I'm generally OK with estimating how big the aperture should be and getting the focus right. It's rare that the DOF needs to be that exacting, for me. And I do find that reviewing in the LCD is an adequate work-around. Meanwhile, the DOF Preview can make the viewfinder dim, making it harder to use. It's not exactly a perfect feature.

I have the DOF Preview button on my camera and I rarely use it (and when I do, it tends to be for macro work). However, I'm sure that labels me, as others have suggested, a mere beginner, perhaps not even ranking up to the skilled amateur I thought I was!

More to the point, find me a single user who would complain about having a DOF preview button, and being able to see the true DOF via sensor live view.

Nobody..

Simple as that..

It's different than DOF Preview that is on my camera. DOF Preview through Live View at least wouldn't have the dim viewfinder problem. As someone else suggested, it should be combined with a zoom to make it a bit easier to visualize. Sony doesn't seem to be doing that, though.

For the sake of a few pence, Sony have left out a useful feature...not something anyone should defend..

Adding the button probably costs more than a few pence. It has to be manufactured as a separate part, assembled, wired, etc. Then there's the programming for it. Not that I know what the cost is, but I would think MLU lockup would be cheap -- no extra buttons, and one would think the programming would be not too huge compared to most of the functionality.

I agree with you, though, that at some point, it smacks of yanking features out of the lower-end cameras to drive sales to expensive models. I was hoping Sony wouldn't play hard-ball like the other manufacturers; you'd think they'd get more sales by making less-expensive cameras with more features. That's pretty much why I got the A100 in the first place.

OH, and I don't use the MLU option too often either, although I do think it does improve the low-level sharpness a bit with low shutter speeds. But, it's subtle enough that I can see why many people wouldn't worry about it. Yes, you can zoom to 100% and see the difference, but when I ran tests a long time ago, it seemed as if having a long focal length at those shutter speeds was as much or more of a problem.

But am I happy or do I want features removed? No, but if forced to buy a camera today, I'd be leaning towards the A500 more than the A850. Maybe Sony will force me to make do with what I can get.
--
Gary W.

 

[Frenske]

I am sure most people are not using it, but you are right few would argue against it. It is a bit of gimmick since the perceived DOF by your eye is not identical to what will be recorded by the sensor.

A good photographer knows what aperture to need to get a right DOF to make a picture work.

Most folks can see DOF preview as useful..few would argue against it.

--

http://frenske.zenfolio.com/

 

[Alpha Jack]

Way back in my early film days I used to use DOF preview a lot when trying to get just the right amount of DOF when trying to isolate the primary subject against the forground and background. After a while I got to know the camera and lens settings so well that I no longer needed it and haven't used it in 30 years (even though my cameras have had it). That's why lack of DOF preview is no big deal to me.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

+1

I would add that back then it cost to miss the focus. Now, just shoot wide, stop down, shoot again if it's that much of a concern.
--
Zeiss taste...Beercan budget!

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

I am sure most people are not using it, but you are right few would argue against it. It is a bit of gimmick since the perceived DOF by your eye is not identical to what will be recorded by the sensor.

A good photographer knows what aperture to need to get a right DOF to make a picture work.

Not sure I can agree, many times I have a good idea of the DOF, but I still use it at times.

Also these are not aimed at experienced users, but newer ones. Thus I feel a DOF preview would benefit users. Heck even my film 5's have a DOF preview on them!

Pretty sad when an oldie film body that costs £20 on ebay has that feature, yet a near £600 one does not..