CIS Mystery?

I've been researching buying my first printer on here for a few days and have a question before I continue research...

If CIS systems are so cheap, provide far more ink for an amazing price, prevent clogged heads, then why doesn't everyone use them?

Am I correct in assuming that if I get myself an Epson 1400 and a the relevant cis system, I can expect super cheap running costs as well as the fact that my printer will never really get blocked, even if I do leave the country for a month? Not to mention of course exceptional print quality...

Am I missing something here?

Thanks

La Poder

La Poder said:

I've been researching buying my first printer on here for a few days and have a question before I continue research...

If CIS systems are so cheap, provide far more ink for an amazing price, prevent clogged heads, then why doesn't everyone use them?

Click to expand...

For the cheaper printer like epson r260, r280, I believe everyone should get a cis for it. they are so cheap and you can buy another one at very low price. I am using inkrepublic's cis for years and have no problem whatsoever and love their dye ink quality! a good CD/DVD printing workflow can be found here
http://www.pftq.com/pq/42/cd-dvd-burning.php

it is not just "cost", you wont believe houlw much time we have to spend and how much inks we have wasted if no CIS installed in our printers. The CD/DVD printing is just so much easier with inkrepublic's cis.

La Poder said:

Am I correct in assuming that if I get myself an Epson 1400 and a the relevant cis system, I can expect super cheap running costs as well as the fact that my printer will never really get blocked, even if I do leave the country for a month? Not to mention of course exceptional print quality...

Click to expand...

true, if you find a good cis, the init investment can pay itself in no time.

Thanks for the help. I'm not sure that link is correct?

Is inkrepublic a US based company? I'm from the UK...

La Poder said:

Thanks for the help. I'm not sure that link is correct?

Click to expand...

yes, that's correct, scroll down the page you will see how they print cd

La Poder said:

Is inkrepublic a US based company? I'm from the UK...

Click to expand...

yes. the good thing is they provide free shipping to uk.
i've heard permajet or inkexpress is good deal with in uk too.

I am also from UK and never use inkrepublic I ever search my local place service provider so belive you will also do it.
----------------------------------
http://www.discount-office-needs.co.uk/Office-Printers/28/

MBY24 said:

i've heard permajet or inkexpress is good deal with in uk too.

Click to expand...

I can thoroughly recommend Alex at http://www.inkexpress.co.uk as I got my 1400 and CIS from him during visit to UK and brought back to Spain as hold luggage. Excellent service, high quality CIS and excellent inks. The cartridge chips reset automatically (just keep printing and as cartridges show near empty, they will reset to full).

To be honest, I cannot recommend them highly enough. A real pleasure to deal with and really fast delivery. Not from a bedroom either - if you are near, you can collect from their business premises but as they are in the Midlands, am sure you would avail yourself of their next day delivery facility. A well established company offering excellent service.

They also have a free membership scheme - just sign up on their website and get immediate discounts on all orders - including your first one.

--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS

There's a deal on at the moment at inkexpress.

An Epson r285 plus cis system for £110. Obviously only a4 but might be worth doing that until I learn the ropes and decide if I'm going to print that much and even if I need A3...

Any info about that model. Seems to get good reviews on Amazon...

La Poder said:

If CIS systems are so cheap, provide far more ink for an amazing price, prevent clogged heads, then why doesn't everyone use them?

Click to expand...

CIS aren't "so cheap" when one considers the start up costs, labor involved, and continual tweaking. Moreover, they don't "prevent clogged heads." Why don't more people use them? For the aforementioned reasons. Also consider that every CIS/3rd party ink system that I ever owned killed the respective printer in relatively short (less than 6 months-1year) order including a Canon S9000, i560, and Epson R1800.

La Poder said:

Am I correct in assuming that if I get myself an Epson 1400 and a the relevant cis system, I can expect super cheap running costs as well as the fact that my printer will never really get blocked, even if I do leave the country for a month? Not to mention of course exceptional print quality...

Click to expand...

Nope. See above.

La Poder said:

Am I missing something here?

Click to expand...

Yes, you are missing a lot. Beyond the aforementioned problems consider the lack of demonstrated longevity, differences in ink gamut, gloss, neutrality, metamerism, bronzing, and gloss differential and you've started to address the problems.

You have just opened a can of worms on this forum.

There are those who are against any form of CIS whatsoever and they see no value in them at all, and will tell you all sorts of horror stories about how they ruin the print heads, burn up paper on contact and those sort of things.

Then there is the other side that will tell you that they are great, and save you loads of money and are a breeze to use. They can't tell a difference between OEM inks and 3rd party, and will never buy OEM ink again.

I have been running an Inkjetfly CIS in my R1800 for a long while now and really don't have troubles with it. Once I got it setup properly, it works great. Are the prints just as good as OEM? No, but they are very close in quality. In my opinion. Is it good enough for me? Yes. Would it be good enough in quality for you? That all depends.

For those that demand the utmost in quality, they would never, ever use a CIS, but will not hesitate to tell you that you shouldn't. In the end, it is up to the end user. It is your printer and your prints.

Good luck!

handymus

Adam2 said:

CIS aren't "so cheap" when one considers the start up costs, labor involved, and continual tweaking. Moreover, they don't "prevent clogged heads." Why don't more people use them? For the aforementioned reasons. Also consider that every CIS/3rd party ink system that I ever owned killed the respective printer in relatively short (less than 6 months-1year) order including a Canon S9000, i560, and Epson R1800.

Click to expand...

I respect your views Adam but my own experience, over 12+ years, is totally opposite. I also have many colleagues who would also totally disagree with you. One has had the Epson 1200 for about 9 or 10 years now, has run on compatible inks all that time (after the initial originals that came with the printer) and has never had any problems.

To me, the failure of your printers would be more down to use/non-use than anything to do with the inks.

--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS

Adam2 said:

La Poder said:

If CIS systems are so cheap, provide far more ink for an amazing price, prevent clogged heads, then why doesn't everyone use them?

Click to expand...

they don't "prevent clogged heads."

Click to expand...

I would definitely be leery of of any CIS vendor that claims to "prevent clogged heads"

Member said:

Also consider that every CIS/3rd party ink system that I ever owned killed the respective printer in relatively short (less than 6 months-1year) order including a Canon S9000, i560, and Epson R1800.

Click to expand...

In my own experience, I had problems with 3 of the R1800s I owned, using both Epson pigment ink and third party pigment ink (CIS or refillable cartridges). I have almost no problems running them with (third party) dye ink. Of course, dye ink does not have the same longevity as pigment ink, but for many applications they are perfectly fine.

Member said:

Member said:

Am I missing something here?

Click to expand...

Yes, you are missing a lot. Beyond the aforementioned problems consider the lack of demonstrated longevity, differences in ink gamut, gloss, neutrality, metamerism, bronzing, and gloss differential and you've started to address the problems.

Click to expand...

I agree with the lack of demonstrated longevity, but for the Epson 1400 in question (which uses Claria dye ink), gloss, bronzing, gloss differential are non-issues when using third party ink.

I also don't have problems with gamut, neutrality, or metamerism (the Epson Claria ink has serious metamerism anyway).

Dominic.Chan said:

I would definitely be leery of of any CIS vendor that claims to "prevent clogged heads"

Click to expand...

I would agree with you there Dominic but have not actually seen that claimed by the providers I have used. PrintRite did always claim their inks were far less likely to clog (proven to me over years of use) due incorporating a 1% of their own cleaning fluid with the ink. Seemed to work very well.

I would mention, as the media on which you print has a profoud effect on both appearance and longevity, that I print mostly on acid-free watercolour paper (mostly Canson Montval 300gsm which interestingly, I used many moons ago in the conventional darkroom for Platinum prints - so a full circle for me!). I have seen no fading over 10+ years of display conditions. However, I must also be fair and say (Satin photo paper from Jessops in UK) I have a family print (A3) framed of grandchildren when young that is still unfaded (I can check edges that are masked to compare and do from time to time)

I have found some photo papers, probably because they are designed to, as it were, ingest the inks, also ingest muck and bullets from the atmosphere - and they have definitely deteriorated so whatever the inks, such papers can be image-short-lived. That's why I don't use them.
--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS

I had $50 HP printer/copier/scanner for a few years that without using profiles produced exceptionally color-accurate 8x10's with exceptionally fine resolution. Put paper in it and press the print button. It started givng me an occasional error code and I assumed that if I replaced it with something much more expensive it would significantly improve my output.

I bought an R1900 with a CIS to replace it. I gained the ability to print on as large as 13" roll paper, pigment ink prints which should last 5-10 times longer without fading, the ability to print directly on CD/DVD's, much faster printing, and potentially better resolution.

I spent a lot of time (and ink) figuring out the idiosyncrasies of a CIS --learning that unless you have a profile for the ink and paper combination you are using, pictures will be as bad as you can imagine. None of the CIS vendors actually provide a profile for their ink and plain white paper. The R1900 clips 4x6's and 5x7's so you have to do a workaround just to get borderless prints. If I go any longer than a few days without printing, I have to print a test print to clear the heads and sometimes perform a head cleaning that eats about 1% of my CIS ink each time.

Months and dollars later, is it better than my old HP? Yes, except for maybe the resolution. At times it seems like using and supporting it requires more time, effort, specialized expertise, and money than a printing press.

Zone8 said:

I can thoroughly recommend Alex at http://www.inkexpress.co.uk

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I've ordered a CIS for my "new" 1400. I also ordered some Inkexpress A3 270gsm Nanoporous Smooth Pearl from them. Any ideas of the settings I should use for it?
Cheers
Jerry

JerryCanon10D said:

Thanks for the tip. I've ordered a CIS for my "new" 1400. I also ordered some Inkexpress A3 270gsm Nanoporous Smooth Pearl from them. Any ideas of the settings I should use for it?

Click to expand...

Hi Jerry,

I have always used the Photo Quality Inkjet Paper setting and has always worked well.

I print for A3+ on Canson Montval watercolour paper. Excellent profiles available free from MOAB to try for a range of papers. with full instructions on "how".

http://moabpaper.com/icc-profiles-downloads/epson/epson-stylus-photo-1400/

I have used, for many years, PowerStrip from http://www.entechtaiwan.com and it's free to download and try and then inexpensive to buy. Superb for getting monitor to match the printed output. Install it, then e-mail me for my destructions on how to use. This is a once only offer for you.

--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS

Adam2 said:

Beyond the aforementioned problems consider the lack of demonstrated longevity, [...]

Click to expand...

I thought Mark did read this forum...

For some longevity data with CIS, see http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ : it's not necessary an horror story (but some are weak in this area).

For the original question, I had some problems with my InkJetFly CIS (BigFoot on a R1800) :

• for a while, creaks in a tube did un-prime one channel and I had a hard time finding the problem (now solved),
• and more generally some channels still unprime from time to time (especially with some of the #@ç! Epson "maintenance" automatic cleanings - I use the ones of SSC Service Utility, even if they waste more ink per cleaning I just need one of them).

So, there is also place for balanced opinions here.

Consider also that you'll need custom profiles with most (if not all) CIS solutions.

All in all, I still think I saved big money with my CIS (the kit with 8*100ml of ink is at the same price than a set of 13ml cartridges here in France).
Yes, I may have had more luck than Adam2 (knock on wood).

Zone8 said:

I have always used the Photo Quality Inkjet Paper setting and has always worked well.

Click to expand...

The paper arrived today and printed well - thanks. I'll installo the CIS when the present cartridges are empty

Zone8 said:

I have used, for many years, PowerStrip from http://www.entechtaiwan.com and it's free to download

Click to expand...

Will definately have an look and get in touch with you later

Thanks again
Jerry