My BEST street picture!

Everybody lives with his contradictions, but you expose some of them here, involuntarily. Mark noticed an inconsistency in your maintaining a psychological proposition about Jim whereas at the same time you declare Jim that he is not competent to maintain a similiar proposition about you. I hoped I could give you a clue to that by that well known Latin aphorism, reminding you that your posts appear some of us as if you thought of yourself more like the god and of us more like the cattle. And there is still the inconsistency between your official aim to raise the standard of photography and your bottom lines. What about raising our standard of photography and raising your standard of philanthropic manners in a combined effort? Even Mr. Darcy did get it, finally, so you perhaps, too?

I fear we have nobody quite as irresistible as Elizabeth Bennet around here to make the change seem worthwhile.

kind regards
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Jono Slack said:

But that isn't the point - the point (surely) is that if you have
exhibitions, and if you put your work up for grabs, then you should
expect criticism (and be able to handle it). It's also acceptable to
to GIVE harsh criticism to work so displayed.

On the other hand, pictures posted here (like the dog picture you
showed) are not posted by the same level of photographer, and whilst
saying that it's boring might be the case, it's neither constructive
nor polite.

Presumably people want constructive criticism, but to say that such a
picture is boring is not constructive, and not why it was posted. If
you can't be bothered to say how it could be improved (which is fine)
then it would be more constructive to stay silent. (Of course, you
shouldn't say it's good when it isn't).

I'm not suggesting different levels of appreciation should be
applied, just different levels of criticism.

Click to expand...

Jono

I'm not an exhibition level photographer, very far from it in fact. I'm a hobby shooter who gets out at the weekends if I'm able.

But I have to say that although Stefan can be very caustic and blunt at times, on the two or three occasions he has commented on my shots he has been helpful and constructive, which I appreciated.
I don't think he actually has horns and a tail
(or not all the time anyway)

Regards
Mike

--



http://mikepics.zenfolio.com/

Hi Mike

Edward48 said:

Jono
I'm not an exhibition level photographer, very far from it in fact.
I'm a hobby shooter who gets out at the weekends if I'm able.

But I have to say that although Stefan can be very caustic and blunt
at times, on the two or three occasions he has commented on my shots
he has been helpful and constructive, which I appreciated.
I don't think he actually has horns and a tail
(or not all the time anyway)

Click to expand...

Maybe I should have read the whole thread . . .. or kept out altogether



--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Jono Slack said:

Presumably people want constructive criticism, but to say that such a
picture is boring is not constructive,

Click to expand...

Thanks, Jono. I've tried to make that point in the past, but it fell on deaf ears.

Jono Slack said:

If
you can't be bothered to say how it could be improved (which is fine)
then it would be more constructive to stay silent.

Click to expand...

Again, I thank you for clarifying a point I tried to make weeks ago. To make empty remarks that contain no content of their own that would allow the photographer to learn, serve no useful purpose other than to stroke the ego of the person offering the critique. This kind of critique has been the norm from a few individuals here lately, and now the emperors are beginning to be exposed for who they really are.

I truly wish no one to leave the forum, whether it be by force or by intimidation. Unfortunately, that has happened on both accounts here lately. But I, for one, have no intention on leaving. I might not be one of the most valuable contributors here, be it through my pictures or my critiques, but I know I have my own specific vision. And if nothing else, I would hope that it might contibute in some small way to the overall richness of this forum. I don't aways have the time to comment on all the images shared here, but I am thankful for the ability to grow by seeing through the eyes of some pretty gifted people here, and that includes Stefan.
--

• markE

http://www.wingsoflight.com

'Good photography is a controlled accident,
a vision of preparation and surrender materialized.'

No need Jono.

Mike
--



http://mikepics.zenfolio.com/

Jono Slack said:

Maybe I should have read the whole thread . . .. or kept out altogether

Click to expand...

Jono, anyone can be a critic. It takes a special individual to be a critic and a teacher. A number of individuals lately offer nothing in the way of "constructive" criticism along with post after post of their "vision" of what they consider to be great photography and something the rest of us poor hacks should aspire to.

It is not you who owes anyone an apology. Just because someone has a showing or is published does not elevate them to the status of an all knowing entity who the rest of us should bow to with humble respect.

There are all kinds of hobbyist photographers. Some enjoy their vision of "street", others enjoy portraits, sports, flowers, abstract, and even dogs, cats and sheep. What gives anyone the right to denegrate what these people enjoy doing with their hobby?

If they are pros, then maybe the forum that better suits them is the Pro Forum. At least there they would be among their peers.. but then maybe that is exactly why they are here instead.

To come here and offer snide remarks, and basically poke fun at those who enjoy this forum and their hobby photography is a measure of disrespect that can not be justified, no matter who you are and what accolades you may have garnered. Respect is something you earn, you don't get because you may have had a showing or some images published.

More importantly, there is more than one vision or style when it comes to photography and I don't believe any of our most recent members has the right to hold their own vision or style up before us all and imply "THIS is the way to do it."

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com/dlux3
http://www.image36.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.

Unfortunately, it seems that carrying the Leica name on your camera is both a blessing and a curse. There will always be people dropping in on this forum to put down anyone who dares to use the red dot for any purpose they deem unworthy of its grand history. I don't see that happening on the other forums I've visited. It's pretty foolish and narrow minded behaviour, when you think about it.

VLuxer said:

Unfortunately, it seems that carrying the Leica name on your camera
is both a blessing and a curse. There will always be people dropping
in on this forum to put down anyone who dares to use the red dot for
any purpose they deem unworthy of its grand history. I don't see
that happening on the other forums I've visited. It's pretty foolish
and narrow minded behaviour, when you think about it.

Click to expand...

I could not agree more
the Leica reputation is well earned
those of us fortunate enough to use one have to contend with this, I suppose
I think this is the root of recent problems we have had on this forum

just because you use a Leica, does not mean you have to become a street photographer
constructive criticism should be given & accepted here
denigrating photographs as "boring" belittles both the OP and the commentator

as Jono wisely stated earlier in this thread, there is no harm in simply not posting a response to a post you do not find worthwhile
--
--
pbase & dpreview supporter
DPR forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

That's so true. I had gotten into the habit of avoiding altogether posters who tend not to interest me, or whose only purpose it seems is to incite others, but with such a long thread, I popped in to see what all the commotion was about. It's just the Ghost of Leica past rearing its ugly head again. Not that the ghost is ugly, but the ones who keep trying to shove Leica's past down our throats do look pretty ugly, from where I sit.

Hi there

I quite agree, and most of the history ain't that grand either; the first time I touched a Leica was last October when I bought a second hand M6 'by mistake' on ebay . . . . Later I went in to some leica shops, and was amazed at the incredible build quality of the M series - row after row of secondhand bodies, all of them in absolutely mint condition, not a scratch or mark, and some 20 or 30 years old - incredible.

I'm quite careful with my gear, and my M8's look thoroughly used after 6/12 months - corners shiny, baseplates scratched, rub marks where my hands go.

Of course, the reason is not that Leica finish has gone downhill, it's simply that the vast majority of those secondhand Leicas have been used hardly at all.

The mystique is generated by a couple of splendid photographers . . . . . and a history of well heeled users who never really got to grips with them.

kind regards

VLuxer said:

Unfortunately, it seems that carrying the Leica name on your camera
is both a blessing and a curse. There will always be people dropping
in on this forum to put down anyone who dares to use the red dot for
any purpose they deem unworthy of its grand history. I don't see
that happening on the other forums I've visited. It's pretty foolish
and narrow minded behaviour, when you think about it.

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

HI Jim
Thanks for that

Mostly I agree with you - mind you, throwaway remarks can be really useful, I remember Irakly saying about a photo I was proud of 'It needs an alligator in the top left' - I was offended at first, but it turned out to have been really valuable. I like to see all types around here, and I think the forum is better for it.

best wishes
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

I agree that a good portion of the mint condition Leicas now out there were probably used very little, certainly not as much as you use yours. Also, they had a tendency to go for those stylish leather cases, which you hardly ever see on anyone's camera anymore. I guess they would be impractical in today's digital world, but they did alot to preserve the old Leicas we see today.

Jono Slack said:

• row after row of secondhand bodies, all of them in absolutely mint

condition, not a scratch or mark, and some 20 or 30 years old -
incredible.

I'm quite careful with my gear, and my M8's look thoroughly used
after 6/12 months - corners shiny, baseplates scratched, rub marks
where my hands go.

Of course, the reason is not that Leica finish has gone downhill,
it's simply that the vast majority of those secondhand Leicas have
been used hardly at all.

The mystique is generated by a couple of splendid photographers . . .
. . and a history of well heeled users who never really got to grips
with them.

kind regards

VLuxer said:

Unfortunately, it seems that carrying the Leica name on your camera
is both a blessing and a curse. There will always be people dropping
in on this forum to put down anyone who dares to use the red dot for
any purpose they deem unworthy of its grand history. I don't see
that happening on the other forums I've visited. It's pretty foolish
and narrow minded behaviour, when you think about it.

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Click to expand...

Hi Jone, that's an interesting point:

Jono Slack said:

there is no harm in saying nothing

Click to expand...

Is there really no harm in saying nothing, I wonder ?
I would rather take the beating than being ignored.
Everyone on this forum deserves feedback.
JMO

All the best.
---
Bart

Jim, you are one of these who just read what he wants to read.
--
http://www.stefan-rohner.net
http://www.ball-saal.com

'Photography in the net is not about capturing light with a camera, caring about composition, aesthetics and most of all evoking feelings through the mood of the picture. Photography in the net is about rating the right pictures, sweet-talking the right photographers, this is what gives you their attention, and this is the way to become a great photographer yourself. '

VLuxer said:

Unfortunately, it seems that carrying the Leica name on your camera
is both a blessing and a curse. There will always be people dropping
in on this forum to put down anyone who dares to use the red dot for
any purpose they deem unworthy of its grand history. I don't see
that happening on the other forums I've visited. It's pretty foolish
and narrow minded behaviour, when you think about it.

Click to expand...

well in the other forums people dont own 20.000€ equipment, and I also never read "this is typical canon photography" or "this can be done only with nikon lenses" or
"we leica photographers".......

--
http://www.stefan-rohner.net
http://www.ball-saal.com

'Photography in the net is not about capturing light with a camera, caring about composition, aesthetics and most of all evoking feelings through the mood of the picture. Photography in the net is about rating the right pictures, sweet-talking the right photographers, this is what gives you their attention, and this is the way to become a great photographer yourself. '

--
Read my blog -> http://radio.weblogs.com/0101365/

Jono, everybody respects your work in this forum because not only it has a high artistic and technical quality, but also because it is very classy! You are the kind of good example for all of us to follow.

You surely do not need to make artificial, staged, vulgar and pretencious pictures to be noticed!... So please, stay away from some critics or "adivises"!...
Louis