New Sony A700

Phranque said:

For new DSLR buyers, (those who have not already signed on to the
Canon or Nikon "systems"), the In-Body IS is going to be hard to
ignore. Canon and Nikon my have just released their last xxD, xxxD,
Dxx, Dxxx systems without built in IS. The main reason will be
Marketablity, not usability or quality.

FH3

Click to expand...

I shot Canon since 1978, with a couple of Digital P&S Nikons.. before more Canon Digital.

When I went to get my first DSLR... Canon was top of my list until I found the in-body IS. It works well. Cameralabs is getting 4 stops at 300mm on their test A700. Its more than Marketing it is another valid approach to the problem.

And for budget minded people it is a great feature.

Each Camera has its strengths and weaknesses... which makes for good competition.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

EvanDavies said:

I use Canon gear but I'm a photographer not a manufacturer evangelist
so I do look at Nikon and others to see what the "competition" is up
to.

Nikons do have some nice features that Canon's don't have but for me
the main issue is image quality and from what I've seen nothing can
match Canon's low ISO output and smooth colour rendition.
Its pretty clear that 10MP APS-C is the limit for low noise output
with todays technology.

Click to expand...

I am intrested to see these new cameras against the 30D. I think that 8MP CMOS may be the best place for HIGH ISO shooting. The 400D/Xti.. did not improve on the quality we saw in the great Canon 8MP sensors.

AS of yet I haven't seen any images from any of these cameras that can tell the real story because there is no info on settings nor comparative subjects. The reviews will be interesting. Phil's tests will be interesting as I expect some 30D to 40D comparisons and then some with the other two new cameras.

I don't see any thing in any of them that is going to move people with lots of glass to another brand. I did pre order the Sony.. I have seen enough to tell me it will meet my needs and work as a team with my KM 5D.

I expect most Canon and Nikon users feel the same way.

Happy shooting folks!!!

EvanDavies said:

12MP APS-C relies too heavily on
(destructive) noise reduction and I think these cameras are aimed to
entice the punters and P&S converts who catch on to the buzz words
like MegaPixels. Its understandable that someone new to DSLRs will
be overwhelmed with choice and capabilities so something simple to
measure that can be compared between cameras makes it easier for them
to choose.

Its only a matter of time for the next breakthrough so we just have
to enjoy what we have...

Click to expand...

--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

The thing that I would have liked was to have the top buttons sealed. That is the areas where I have experienced problems in the past. I don’t need to be able to use the camera in the driving rain or to be able to dunk it under the water but it would be nice to be able to use the camera without a bag over it in light rain.

Greg

--



http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/

I do think that the in-body IS is a very nice feature but I do have some worries about reliability. Yes all mechanical systems can fail (including lens IS systems) but moving the sensor around seems to be a much more complicated and involved process and seems to be much more prone to failure to me. I have always really wanted in-body IS but now I am having some second thoughts about it.

Greg

--



http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/

I am watching this whole battle between Canon, Nikon and Sony with interest. Seems Canon has some real competition.

Currently I am using a XTi (400D) and I'm not interested in the 40D because it's too similar to my XTi. Not that big an improvement to warrant an upgrade. Now if the 40D had 12mp's then I might be tempted next Spring.

Who knows? My guess is the 40D is a short lived camera.

--
Bill

Shoot liberally!

Its not a question of whether it interesting or not its about were you put it.

Honestly I could care less about what Sony is doing. Of course I am not all that interested in the 40d either. I have a 30d that is in great shape and more capable than I am. When it dies though I will buy new cannon.
The main reason I will buy a canon is the thousands dollars of canon lens I own.

I just think you should have placed your thread in general discussions or Sony.

shotgunRed said:

Its not a question of whether it interesting or not its about were
you put it.
Honestly I could care less about what Sony is doing. Of course I am
not all that interested in the 40d either. I have a 30d that is in
great shape and more capable than I am. When it dies though I will
buy new cannon.
The main reason I will buy a canon is the thousands dollars of canon
lens I own.

I just think you should have placed your thread in general
discussions or Sony.

Click to expand...

We have plenty of A700 threads as you might guess. But non of them are intended to be a discussion of the camera from the perspective of Canon users...

If I came here and trashed your camera (by the way I really like the 30D) then you can complain. lord knows I do when it is the other way around.

But to jump on one of your own for having some curiosity about other cameras and wanting canon owner views seems overly restrictive.
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

Wm Karoly said:

Who knows? My guess is the 40D is a short lived camera.

Click to expand...

I agree, there is a good chance the 40D could be short lived for an upgrade to do some body features catch-up with Nikon.

I stand by the the applicability of this post being here as I've noted in my above post. The brand of product in question doesn't matter.

Under your logic nothing other than Canon branded product should be discussed here or in the lens forum. Given that, you'll be pretty busy addressing all the third party lens and flash related posts with your thoughts.

This Sony camera is just as relevant to Canon folks as third party products for Canon Cameras. More so applicable than your recent involvement in discussing Hotels, cows or even two way radios. (which I don't mind seeing here one bit)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=24714210
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=24639960
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=24471085

Your welcome to disagree but see my last sentence for further comments on that matter. Please allow the rest of us that do agree to discuss the matter further.

I put this here again to gather input from the Canon folks and discuss it with them as the primary audience for reasons, that again, I've noted previously.

You're welcome not to care about the 40D or what others have to say about this camera or others. No one is going to slam you for your feelings or opinions. However in I and many of others ask a courtesy in return that you just skip over posts that are of no interest rather than continuing to take them off topic.

shotgunRed said:

Its not a question of whether it interesting or not its about were
you put it.
Honestly I could care less about what Sony is doing. Of course I am
not all that interested in the 40d either. I have a 30d that is in
great shape and more capable than I am. When it dies though I will
buy new cannon.
The main reason I will buy a canon is the thousands dollars of canon
lens I own.

I just think you should have placed your thread in general
discussions or Sony.

Click to expand...

--
-tim
NW Columbus/Dublin, Ohio
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

I completely agree....todays world is far from the days when I too had a 10D on day one of it's release and Canon literally commanded a huge lead in IQ and more.

I also think the 40D will be short lived. Canon is a great marketing company and I don't see them standing by trying to fight the marketing pressures the others are going to put on them in the way of features and MP's.

It could only help us the consumers that's for sure.

Wm Karoly said:

I am watching this whole battle between Canon, Nikon and Sony with
interest. Seems Canon has some real competition.

Currently I am using a XTi (400D) and I'm not interested in the 40D
because it's too similar to my XTi. Not that big an improvement to
warrant an upgrade. Now if the 40D had 12mp's then I might be tempted
next Spring.

Who knows? My guess is the 40D is a short lived camera.

--
Bill

Shoot liberally!

Click to expand...

--
-tim
NW Columbus/Dublin, Ohio
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

I think perhaps Canon and Nikon will release in body IS and hopefully make it so that it's either automatically disabled when using IS lenses and or manually able to be turned off.

That would give some flexibility and options that no one else has yet. What would be really, really cool is if the two systems could work in tandem and perhaps raise the level of working ability even more

Can you image hand holding a 1 second image and getting a nice sharp image! Hey, I can dream can't I? .......

Ken_5D said:

Phranque said:

For new DSLR buyers, (those who have not already signed on to the
Canon or Nikon "systems"), the In-Body IS is going to be hard to
ignore. Canon and Nikon my have just released their last xxD, xxxD,
Dxx, Dxxx systems without built in IS. The main reason will be
Marketablity, not usability or quality.

FH3

Click to expand...

I shot Canon since 1978, with a couple of Digital P&S Nikons.. before
more Canon Digital.

When I went to get my first DSLR... Canon was top of my list until I
found the in-body IS. It works well. Cameralabs is getting 4 stops
at 300mm on their test A700. Its more than Marketing it is another
valid approach to the problem.

And for budget minded people it is a great feature.

Each Camera has its strengths and weaknesses... which makes for good
competition.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

Click to expand...

--
-tim
NW Columbus/Dublin, Ohio
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

Canon may even have it planned that way. Thus why they didn't release a camera that costs more money as others have.

Most all of the upgrades are really just wants, not needs anyway. Most are what I would consider soft upgrades....they will roll over into a new camera with perhaps a better sensor and a pro or pro-hybrid type focus system.

The did come to market pretty quick after announcing the camera, so it was done early or at least on time according to Canon, whereas the others have announced but are yet to his the streets. That small window gives Canon a jump on what's next.

I can't believe I'm speculating already....so early too!

HarryP said:

Wm Karoly said:

Who knows? My guess is the 40D is a short lived camera.

Click to expand...

I agree, there is a good chance the 40D could be short lived for an
upgrade to do some body features catch-up with Nikon.

Click to expand...

--
-tim
NW Columbus/Dublin, Ohio
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

so MP's is the key thing in your mind......??

....another one lead by the carrot of marketing.......LoL!

Wm Karoly said:

Currently I am using a XTi (400D) and I'm not interested in the 40D
because it's too similar to my XTi. Not that big an improvement to
warrant an upgrade. Now if the 40D had 12mp's then I might be tempted
next Spring.

Who knows? My guess is the 40D is a short lived camera.

--
Bill

Shoot liberally!

Click to expand...

--

santoguapo said:

That said, I am a bit surprised that the new
Sony doesn't have live-view (at least I have seen no mention of it
yet.). Not that it is a required feature now, but it looks like all
new Canons, Nikons and Olympi (is that the plural for Olympus? ;o)
have it.

Click to expand...

I too find this interesting. I remember reading two things that I believe might be related to this.

Sony stated they would do live view when the technology allowed for it to be done correctly. The new Nikons I believe have a live view frame rate of 15 fps compared to Canon's 30 and I wonder if this is related to the higher res LCD in combination with processor limitations. The new Sony appears to use the same LCD as the new Nikon's so is this Sony's statement that live view in the new Nikon's is not as usable as it should be? Maybe I'm readin too much into all the hype and counter hype.

Just a thought.

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
My PBASE page is new and growing so please be patient.

Another thought to my post above.

If my assumption is correct this may have been a decision Canon marketing made in favor of live view performance over LCD screen resolution. Not one that I would have necessarily agreed with but no one has seen the new Nikon and Sony LCD's to really know. Canon may have decided that the advantages of a higher live view frame rate outweighed the added LCD resolution for the intended market and purpose.

Again, just my thoughts.

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
My PBASE page is new and growing so please be patient.

2 MP is nothing! The better build, AF, larger brighter view finder, highlight tone priority, 14 bit, 6.5 fps, thumbwheel, live view, my menu's, etc. are all better reasons than 2 extra MP's.

Bob

Wm Karoly said:

I am watching this whole battle between Canon, Nikon and Sony with
interest. Seems Canon has some real competition.

Currently I am using a XTi (400D) and I'm not interested in the 40D
because it's too similar to my XTi. Not that big an improvement to
warrant an upgrade. Now if the 40D had 12mp's then I might be tempted
next Spring.

Who knows? My guess is the 40D is a short lived camera.

--
Bill

Shoot liberally!

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
My PBASE page is new and growing so please be patient.

rwbaron said:

2 MP is nothing! The better build, AF, larger brighter view finder,
highlight tone priority, 14 bit, 6.5 fps, thumbwheel, live view, my
menu's, etc. are all better reasons than 2 extra MP's.

Click to expand...

Not sure 14 bit is anything more than the new MP... 12bit already encodes many more shades and colors than the human eye cans see let alone what monitor and printer technology can do. I have read several of the Canon Pro users with 14 bit say.. they have never seen a difference.

But I totally agree that 10-12 MP is more of marketing difference than anything you will see in an image. Not a reason to change systems for sure.

rwbaron said:

Bob

Wm Karoly said:

I am watching this whole battle between Canon, Nikon and Sony with
interest. Seems Canon has some real competition.

Currently I am using a XTi (400D) and I'm not interested in the 40D
because it's too similar to my XTi. Not that big an improvement to
warrant an upgrade. Now if the 40D had 12mp's then I might be tempted
next Spring.

Who knows? My guess is the 40D is a short lived camera.

--
Bill

Shoot liberally!

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
My PBASE page is new and growing so please be patient.

Click to expand...

--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

Tim Lauro said:

That would give some flexibility and options that no one else has
yet. What would be really, really cool is if the two systems could
work in tandem and perhaps raise the level of working ability even
more

Can you image hand holding a 1 second image and getting a nice sharp
image! Hey, I can dream can't I? .......

Ken_5D said:

Phranque said:

For new DSLR buyers, (those who have not already signed on to the
Canon or Nikon "systems"), the In-Body IS is going to be hard to
ignore. Canon and Nikon my have just released their last xxD, xxxD,
Dxx, Dxxx systems without built in IS. The main reason will be
Marketablity, not usability or quality.

FH3

Click to expand...

I shot Canon since 1978, with a couple of Digital P&S Nikons.. before
more Canon Digital.

When I went to get my first DSLR... Canon was top of my list until I
found the in-body IS. It works well. Cameralabs is getting 4 stops
at 300mm on their test A700. Its more than Marketing it is another
valid approach to the problem.

And for budget minded people it is a great feature.

Each Camera has its strengths and weaknesses... which makes for good
competition.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

Click to expand...

--
-tim
NW Columbus/Dublin, Ohio
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

Click to expand...

There was a test on a Leica, i think, on youTube by camera labs, that has both available.. and they do not work together they actually create a shaky mess working against each other.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

look at heavy NR at ISO 100, there is no texture detail, 12 mpixel with effective detail of 6 mpixel...if these are the samples, this camera has no chances. Sorry Sony

Tim Lauro said:

anyone else care to take a 40D break and check out the new A700?

interesting to me since, and I could be wrong, but is the sensor the
same as the new Nikon systems?

images here: http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?n=6327

--
-tim
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

Click to expand...

Pre production shots .. with no idea of what setting nor what PP was done.. is not a good reason to write off a camera.

Just a little scientific method to judgements would be good.

I saw some Pre Production 40D images that has some banded noise in them.. I totally understood that was not a fair assessment of the actual camera.

Cameralabs has a good rundown and they seem pretty happy right now when doing standardized tests...

BTW.. those don't look bad to me at all.. I would guess they have DRO on since it goes from white sunlight to shadows and nothing looks blown out to me..
Though I am not on my photo monitor right now.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com