Mk3 and AF - what if it couldn't be fixed with a firmware update?

This is herd mentality.

The relationships are as follows:

No RG post + New Firmware = Great camera the firmware seems to fix my problems AND no more AF problem/return posts

RG Posts that new Firmware does NOT fix AF = exponential rise in AF problem posts + sorry to have to return posts.

Now on the heals of 6 different cameras being reviewed by RG, G-d knows how many times, the posts are even getting more ridiculous, this thread being a perfect example:

taking it out of context but you get the idea:

"I bought this camera that everyone is returning/posting all these AF issues and RG who has validated these findings over and over again and even though mine works great (vast majority of hummingbird shots in focus-you know how fast their wings are for G-d's sake?), do you think I should return mine" Well why buy it in the first place. The logic is absurd and this is nothing more than the herd mentality.

I must be the crazy one here but I don't get it. I am sorry if I don't need RG or Pope Paul to validate my purchase.

ReneH said:

The question really was what would
happen if it was a hardware issues that couldn't be fixed by a
firmware update and would Canon "do whatever it takes" to fix the
problem.

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com

Click to expand...

I guess you would be stuck with it and would have to continue to take great pictures.

If you're that worried it would be smart to return it, sit on the fence until this is all resolved to your satisfaction and then re-buy it, possibly at a better price.

Baaaaaaaaaaahah LOL

Well said!

You said "if you were smart". There lies the key.

I am sorry for having to throw a few stones here, but why did this person buy this camera in the first place?

I really don't understand this logic. This person is not an early adopter, not someone who bought the camera based on the hype of PMA or Canon, but must have recently purchased it AFTER all the negative press and posts.

Do people think that this is like a test drive? If that is what was desired, I would have made a deal with the reseller.

But here is an example of hysteria, where the buyer (who was aware) purchased the camera, admits that the "vast majority" of hummingbird pictures are in focus and wants to know if she/he should return it. WHY?? Herd mentality. Have you ever been to a Buffalo Jump? I think that explains the mentality in many of these posts. Everyone, even those who are happy are being led by RG to the Buffalo Jump.

Joe, thanks for the info and great ideas! My only concern is that my friend wouldn't stop and would run over me in a jealous rage...have to make sure I don't pick a camera friend. I was actually thinking about sitting in my car in a parking lot by a busy road and taking pics of cars as they drive by...I'm thinking that should do the trick too - I just have to make sure I don't come off looking like a cop with a radar gun.

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com

I bought it because I desired something better than I was getting with the D2N thinking that it it worked great I could keep it and if it didn't work I could return it...simple as that. You're right I did buy it knowing fully well that there may be an issue (or may not be). It seems to be working well and I'd like to keep it but with the assurance that if I run into issues down the road that I haven't encountered so far Canon will stand behind me no matter what. From most of the responses thus far it sounds like they will.

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com

You admit to essentially gambling, but with the proviso, that if you lose, you want to get your money back.

While that is the initial intent of your comments, it gets a little more bizarre, in the sense, that you went into this thing knowing it was a gamble, hit your number and WON but you are now questioning whether you should take your winnings or give it back and leave the table with what you came to the table with.

This what I don't understand.

What if this happens, what if that happens, "what if" is a tough question that NO ONE has the answer to except in hindsight and hindsight right now looks like you are getting what you paid for so why are you even questioning sending this back?????

My subjective/objective perspective on your post is that you are falling prey to the herd mentality I mentioned earlier.

B&H let me return mine (1dmk2n) with over 1000 actuations as a defective body since it has a rapid fire mechanism. However if you are returning it just for general disatisfaction, they will probably stick to their guns on the 200 shot count.

--
Gene (aka hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my wildlife galleries at:
http://www.pbase.com/gaocus
http://hawkman.smugmug.com/gallery/1414279

The frustration, for those of us that just aren't going to worry about it, is that none of us can give you a lock down answer because we are not Canon.

These frustrations continue to be showcased as the current happy mkIII users are forced to defend their attitude to those who are not happy with Canon's silence re mkIII issues, their MkIII itself and those who don't want the mkIII to be a success. I don't necessarily think you are part of that group but the responses here are indicative of that pervasive attitude.

ReneH said:

I bought it because I desired something better than I was getting
with the D2N thinking that it it worked great I could keep it and if
it didn't work I could return it...simple as that. You're right I
did buy it knowing fully well that there may be an issue (or may not
be). It seems to be working well and I'd like to keep it but with
the assurance that if I run into issues down the road that I haven't
encountered so far Canon will stand behind me no matter what. From
most of the responses thus far it sounds like they will.

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com

Click to expand...

As I stated in another post, with all the negative posting going on, a lot from non-owners, there will be those that start to believe their mk3 is faulty when it isn't. The OP here has an honest concern....he thinks. Now there are a lot of owners and potential owners that believe ALL mk3s are faulty.

Danny

Priaptor said:

This is herd mentality.

The relationships are as follows:

No RG post + New Firmware = Great camera the firmware seems to fix my
problems AND no more AF problem/return posts

RG Posts that new Firmware does NOT fix AF = exponential rise in AF
problem posts + sorry to have to return posts.

Now on the heals of 6 different cameras being reviewed by RG, G-d
knows how many times, the posts are even getting more ridiculous,
this thread being a perfect example:

taking it out of context but you get the idea:
"I bought this camera that everyone is returning/posting all these AF
issues and RG who has validated these findings over and over again
and even though mine works great (vast majority of hummingbird shots
in focus-you know how fast their wings are for G-d's sake?), do you
think I should return mine" Well why buy it in the first place. The
logic is absurd and this is nothing more than the herd mentality.

I must be the crazy one here but I don't get it. I am sorry if I
don't need RG or Pope Paul to validate my purchase.

Click to expand...

Might be irrational, I have followed a similar path myself on the 20D. My problem was not that I thought my images were all out of focus, but that most posters here did. I probably can't see out of focus.

Now the problem is, I don't know who is right! How on earth could I know? If I am the only person who ever sees my work, then my opinion is the only one that matters. But photography is for showing to other people.

If you have the self assurance to trust your own judgments 100%, then you don't need anyones validation. Otherwise, you might.

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

ReneH said:

Question...if Canon did finally fess up that there were AF issues but
they couldn't be fixed by a firmware update, do you think they'd do a
recall of some sort? I have to believe that Canon would stand behind
their customers and do whatever it takes to make them happy, even if
it entailed a very expensive fix - and even more so for a pro body.

Click to expand...

The most that Canon would do is make it known that they recognized that some cameras had an AF problem. They would suggest that people with a problem camera send it in for repair. They would never explain in anything more than the most general terms what the problem is. They would reserve the right to decide if any particular camera actually had a problem. They would also be the one to decide if the camera was actually fixed. This approach is essentially what they did with the 10D AF problems.

Any decisions Canon makes will certainly in part be driven by the cost of fixing the cameras. They certainly will not worry about making everyone happy. Many people are already reasonably happy with the 1D Mark III. Canon would be much happier if people like Rob Galbraith and Paul Pope were more happy with it. But both calculations on cost and on confidence that a fix will really work would be important in any decision to fix a large number of cameras.

The way things have been going it looks more likely that Canon will use firmware fixes to compensate for underlyiing problems and deal with unhappy customers on a case by case basis. In the best case, they will not fix cameras unless the camera has a demonstrable problem.
--
David Jacobson
http://www.pbase.com/dnjake

Priaptor said:

Now on the heals of 6 different cameras being reviewed by RG, G-d
knows how many times, the posts are even getting more ridiculous,
this thread being a perfect example:

Click to expand...

No, you are getting paranoid. You been drinking too much Canon D3 Purple Kool Aide I doubt if you would know a defective camera from a good one.

Priaptor said:

I must be the crazy one here but I don't get it. I am sorry if I
don't need RG or Pope Paul to validate my purchase.

Click to expand...

And I don't need you to validate my decision not to buy a D3 until all the controversy dies down.

Your post just demonstrates the lack of any intelligence. Your grammar is horrific so you are either uneducated or drinking a little of that purple D3 stuff yourself.

I always appreciate hearing the lower half.

Ben,

In this case the OP is not looking for validation that his mkIII is making good images only that if he does find an issue after further use that Canon can/will fix it. He's asking the wrong people obviously.

I do agree with your take though that part of the "is my camera/lens/images OK" process is others "educating" you as to what a technically good image is.

Let's see we've got those who own the camera and don't know if it's any good and those who don't own the camera who can't know if it's any good . . .

At least we've got everybody covered!

I think you summarized the "problem" perfectly.

I think the answer will come when RG says it is "FIXED".

FretNoMore said:

megapixeldave said:

...
if we can assume that there are "good" ones and "bad" ones...why be
stuck with anything that doesnt feel satisfactory.

im not overly optimistic that the new one i get will be any better
but at least i have a chance.
...

Click to expand...

If there are good ones and bad ones I think the best choice is
actually to use the warranty and let Canon repair and calibrate the
camera you already have. If you return it for a different body you
may just get a bad one again and another round of grief.

Click to expand...

in an optimistic frame of mind i would agree with you. what i am concerned with though...does canon "know" what to fix at this point? if it could be guarenteed that canon would repair it then, yes repair makes total sense. i just havent "noted" any post here yet specifically stating that the AF capabilities had be "fixed" by a canon repair. to me, thats a golden question. are you aware of any successful "repairs" by canon at this point? it could be telling if there has been anyone that has had a successful repair.

i was planning on sending my MKIII in for AF repair this week. the manager at my local store told me that he would probably be able to get me a new MKIII instead. i know the new one might not be any better but i feel like i have a better chance of getting one of those "good" ones rather than take a chance on an AF repair that hasnt been proven yet.

thanks
david
http://www.davidprobst.com

FretNoMore said:

• Anders @ http://www.aobild.com *

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Or wannabe owners. I suppose a pro buys what he needs, and if it’s broke, gets it fixed or sells it. Bottom line, it needs to make money, “good enough” works. Maybe the pro knows some tricks and can make up for camera deficiencies with skill.

Serious amateurs buy it because they want the best. They may actually demand higher quality than “good enough”. They often want perfection. Maybe they needed a MF and could not afford it. Maybe their skills need more help from the gear that certainly is my case.

Serious amateurs, who have not bought the camera, will probably not buy until a high level of certainty among the community is obtained. Simple as that.

Trust is a fragile thing. Takes a long time to earn, but only one screw up to break.

Ben

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

Priaptor said:

You admit to essentially gambling, but with the proviso, that if you
lose, you want to get your money back.

Click to expand...

Should buying a camera from Canon be gambling?

Priaptor said:

My subjective/objective perspective on your post is that you are
falling prey to the herd mentality I mentioned earlier.

Click to expand...

Why is it that any one with any concerns about this camera instantly has to face a barrage of personal insults?

This is just beyond ridiculous.

--
http://www.pbase.com/garyp/slideshow&view=slideshow

Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/garyp