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You guys did it D60 or 1D? Help Please!

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This is not a matter of Money or can I afford it. Its a matter or making the right choice. Maybe I should either go with the D60 for now or sit out this round! I can always choose neither build my lenses and shoot my E-100rs and pick up an Elan 7 for $200 while I wait but I know if I do that I will not be happy!

Jason
Lee Rothman said:
Zero said:
There is nothing that compares to instantaneous reaction to your
eye and finger input on the shutter release. It is not something a
stopwatch can really capture. The difference might be only
milliseconds, but to your brain, it seems like a lifetime. Also
the feel of cold hard metal - sorry, plastic lovers, but there is
no comparison for me - this is something the Nikon guys really
appreciate. And then there is the sound of the picture being taken
  • pure precision craftsmanship.
Good luck.
Jason Stoller said:
I was all set and ready to go, have my D60 ordered and ready for
it to be in my hands by Thurday! I shoot landscapes, wildlife,
Middle school football during the day, and High School football
under the lights. I like to take pictures of Animals at the Zoo
and Pets!

Now I am in a Quandry! With all the talk about how the D30 has a
hard time getting a focus lock on moving objects and in low light
situations I am concerned that I am ordering the wrong camera.
From what I read the 1D has a much better focus system equivlent to
the 1V! While the resolution might be lower the CCD is larger and
the Pixel size is larger and the files are suitible for larger than
8x10 prints. Also from what I am reading the focus screens are
interchangeable and the Viewfinder is much brighter and gives you
100% coverage! If I have missed anything here please add to this.

I have a few questions here!

1) I can understand the 1D having more accurate focus if it is a
45 point system but is it any faster?

2) If the motors are in the lenses and the same lenses are used
what makes it focus faster?

3) Is the difference only in focus lock speed?

4) How many shots do you really get per battery charge?

5) Did everything you needed for the 1D like the battery charger
and software you needed come in the box?
With Nikon you have to buy additional software for the D1x so I am
looking for anything that might be left out!

6) If you moved up from the D30 to the 1D is the weight
difference really an issue?

7) If you have a gripe about the 1D what would it be?

8) Maybe Phil will answer this one! We saw the side by side
comparison in Noise as far as the D60 and D1x is concerned but what
about noise compared to the D1?

9) I am talking about a $3200 difference so for me this would most
likely be my last camera for many years to come. I am not looking
to keep chasing technology and so I am asking those of you
experienced with the 1D if you feel this is a camera that someone
who is not a Pro could be happy with for a long long time? To help
with this I chose the Nikon N70 over the Nikon N90s and I never
regretted it.

10) Are there more problems as far as stuck or dead pixels when
comparing Cmos to the CCD that is used in the 1D?

All answers weill be appreciated here!

Jason

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their
new products!
Click to expand...
--
Zero my hero
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Jason Stoller [email protected] are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!
 
It's not that much louder if you change the P.Fn21 for quieter operation,

but then you lose some speed between shots and you can't shoot continuous. Actually, there's one benefit and one workaround for wildlife. Get bigger "L" glass and shoot from further away. Use continuous and the noise will make them look right at you. The quick rapid-frame will catch them looking and before they take off. ;-)

Regards,
Chris
http://pbase.com/c_kuiphoff
http://www.fototime.com/inv/CF8A7A18A13A00E
Jason Stoller said:
Jason
Chris K. said:
Regards,
Chris
http://pbase.com/c_kuiphoff
Zero said:
DavidP said:
Zero said:
And then there is the sound of the picture being taken
  • pure precision craftsmanship.
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
--
Zero my hero
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their
new products!
Click to expand...
 
Red,

Something tells me that even if the 1D was as silent as a mouse breakin' wind, just the looks of it with "L" glass would be enough to get you, ummm, "noticed". ;-)
Red Dawn said:
likewise, in performing arts photography, you don't want something
that makes noise and attract attention to yourself. Same for street
photography - you don't want to draw too much attention to
yourself! (2 areas where the rangefinder design excels)

--
Red Dawn
Click to expand...
--PW
 
DavidP #28649 said:
Well, it'd be NICE to be able to shoot it at a classical concert.
The 1-D would be way too noisy for that. So would the D-30,
probably.
Click to expand...
They make "blimps" that cover that camera and dramatically reduce the sound of the camera. It will make it look kind of funny, however.

At least the 1D eliminates the sound of the film motor drive...
 
Steven I appreciate your comments!
Steven Noyes said:
Jason,

Note: I love working with this camera but it does have a few
quirks. These comments are designed to provide an option to
disenchant you with the 1D. However, do not use one, hold one,
look at your pictures from one or none of this will matter:-)
Click to expand...
I am looking at pictures too!
Steven Noyes said:
Be careful thinking that the 1D has "more accurate" focusing. It
is very fast but (at least on many of them) will only focus to the
edge of the DOF and not to the center. Its accuracy is much lower
than my A2E. I have found that it does better when allowed to use
multiple automatically selected focal points.
Click to expand...
I think I understand what you mean. Some of the pictures I have seen have parts like hands that are out of focus but the rest of the image is tact sharp.
Steven Noyes said:
The software. It works but is poorly designed and works only
within PhotoShop. This is serious shortcoming of the software and
is very clunky. It does do a good job, however, of working with
RAW files. But it is not well thought out.
Click to expand...
I have read about the shortcomings in the software. Its not laid out as well as some third party software but at least Canon does supply you with everything you need right out of the box. One of the things that bothered me was the additional $199 that Nikon wants to charge for theirs after paying over $4000 for a D1x. You of course can buy Bibble software but again after paying between $4000-$5000 for a camera body why not include all the software you need. To me its sort of like selling a new car without the tires.
Steven Noyes said:
What it does not come with. Any memory cards. Make sure you have
at least something or you will be sitting there looking at it
banging your head.
Click to expand...
I am lucky in that regard. I have a 1 gig Microdrive I used with my E-100rs, E-10, and E-20. I also have a 340MB Microdrive and a 128 CF card to get me started.
Steven Noyes said:
Also a membership to LA Fitness. It is a heavy beast but very well
balanced. I think only the Canon new F1 had a better feel to it.
That is an amazing compliment, because I thought that that camera
was perfect.
Click to expand...
I put together and posted a weight comparison chart with different lenses. Its actually not that much heavier than a D60 or D30 when you add the grip. I think the weight difference is about 3/4 a pound! I have not compared them to D1x figures yet.
Steven Noyes said:
Steven

--
'The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, but the
unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to him--therefore, all
progress depends upon the unreasonable man.'
-- Samuel Butler
Click to expand...
--Jason Stoller [email protected] are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!
 
How loud can this thing be? I am used to the beep beep sound and sound from my Nikon N70.
Jason
Michael Long said:
Michael Long said:
Well, it'd be NICE to be able to shoot it at a classical concert.
The 1-D would be way too noisy for that. So would the D-30,
probably.
Click to expand...
They make "blimps" that cover that camera and dramatically reduce
the sound of the camera. It will make it look kind of funny,
however.

At least the 1D eliminates the sound of the film motor drive...
Click to expand...
--Jason Stoller [email protected] are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!
 
Yes, the sound is is not quiet. But golly gee guys, this puppy gets 8 frames per sec, what do you want. This ain't your daddy's Leica M6. If all you shoot is quiet chess competitions or animals with great hearing, then maybe this is not the tool for you. Those chess pieces don't really move too fast, and animals with great hearing probably sit there more than motor along.

But c'mon guys, don't look for shadows when there is so much sunlight. No tool is perfect. [I just seem to like its imperfections:)]

Speaking of Ferrari's, the 1D is better built that a Ferrari - so off-roading is not a problem :0

Jason - this camera is louder than your Nikon N70. But listen for yourself, you might actually enjoy the music that it makes.
Red Dawn said:
but i don't want a Ferrari when i drive in the outlands. Loud noise
is for show-offs (no that's not targeted at u ;))

likewise, in performing arts photography, you don't want something
that makes noise and attract attention to yourself. Same for street
photography - you don't want to draw too much attention to
yourself! (2 areas where the rangefinder design excels)

--
Red Dawn
Click to expand...
--Zero my hero
 
My EOS-5/A2E was my third AF SLR and it was my definition of perfection. It was my mainstay camera for 7 years and I often got 36/36 perfectly focused shots on a roll. I believe the EOS3 and 1V take AF to a new dimension but, for my money, the EOS-5 was so good that any improvements could only be marginal. I bought the EOS-5 after having had an EOS650 for about 2-3 years. The 650 was the first AF camera that had what I would have considered 'workable' but imperfect AF (i.e. on average got about the same % of in-focus photos as if I was focuscing manually [about 50-60%]) but had the advantage of being able to work faster to get the photo.

My dream camera is a marriage between the AF and handling of the EOS-5 with the picture quality of the D30. Would like, but don't need, the extra resolution of the D60. Such a camera would shut me up for 7 years and keep me singing Canon's praises.

I don't know what other D30 users personal experiences and backgrounds are but, because of having had an EOS-5, I have felt that the D30 was a downgrade.
 
Jason,

First my frame of reference: 1N to D30 to 1D.

Like you, I knew if I got the 1D it would, by necessity,
be a choice I'd need to live with for several years. There's
a 'danger' in visiting a site like this with any regularity
because it always keeps that 'latest, greatest, better'
chase in the forefront. If I'd frequented photography
web sites in the last few years, I'd have been jonesing
for the 1V -- and probably succumbed, unnecessarily.

It also becomes disheartening to see price drops & improvements
that make your camera too expensive/not good enough.
(If only I'd waited six months...). Coming from 15
years with Macs, I can tell you that's a source of
unending frustration if you allow it to be. I think
digitals are similar in this regard. Nice to hear
someone on this site say they're not chasing technology.
Breath of fresh air.

All I can tell you is this: the D30 was an excellent
camera for 70% of my needs. People will argue that you
can learn to work with the D30 (and D60's) autofocus
limitations and show you fine examples to prove it.

For me, the question boiled down to --- did I want to
spend the bulk of my time thinking about the camera or
paying attention to the event? With the D30, my
attention at an event was primarily on how to make
the camera work, how to pre-focus, how to work around
the 'situation'. My attention was on the machine.

With the 1D, my attention is back where it should be:
on the event I'm shooting. That is a MAJOR shift
in my experience between the D30 and 1D. I'm very
keen on catching fleeting moments, fleeting expressions,
a convergence of details that help tell a story in
one shot. Sometimes that 'convergence', that opportunity,
only presents itself once. With the 1D, I'm back to
that kind of priority. My attention is where it
belongs again.

The 1D has brought the JOYFULNESS back into the
mix. I know I'll be happy with this camera for
some time to come. Although this didn't answer
your specific questions, I hope it helps put
the experience of the two systems into perspective,
for what it's worth.

Regards,

Ruth Ann
 
I left it in another post of yours. it might help you with your decision.
http://www.nikondigital.org/reviews/1d/canon_1d_review.htm

Jim C.
Jason Stoller said:
Steven Noyes said:
Jason,

Note: I love working with this camera but it does have a few
quirks. These comments are designed to provide an option to
disenchant you with the 1D. However, do not use one, hold one,
look at your pictures from one or none of this will matter:-)
Click to expand...
I am looking at pictures too!
Jason Stoller said:
Be careful thinking that the 1D has "more accurate" focusing. It
is very fast but (at least on many of them) will only focus to the
edge of the DOF and not to the center. Its accuracy is much lower
than my A2E. I have found that it does better when allowed to use
multiple automatically selected focal points.
Click to expand...
I think I understand what you mean. Some of the pictures I have
seen have parts like hands that are out of focus but the rest of
the image is tact sharp.
Jason Stoller said:
The software. It works but is poorly designed and works only
within PhotoShop. This is serious shortcoming of the software and
is very clunky. It does do a good job, however, of working with
RAW files. But it is not well thought out.
Click to expand...
I have read about the shortcomings in the software. Its not laid
out as well as some third party software but at least Canon does
supply you with everything you need right out of the box. One of
the things that bothered me was the additional $199 that Nikon
wants to charge for theirs after paying over $4000 for a D1x. You
of course can buy Bibble software but again after paying between
$4000-$5000 for a camera body why not include all the software you
need. To me its sort of like selling a new car without the tires.
Jason Stoller said:
What it does not come with. Any memory cards. Make sure you have
at least something or you will be sitting there looking at it
banging your head.
Click to expand...
I am lucky in that regard. I have a 1 gig Microdrive I used with
my E-100rs, E-10, and E-20. I also have a 340MB Microdrive and a
128 CF card to get me started.
Jason Stoller said:
Also a membership to LA Fitness. It is a heavy beast but very well
balanced. I think only the Canon new F1 had a better feel to it.
That is an amazing compliment, because I thought that that camera
was perfect.
Click to expand...
I put together and posted a weight comparison chart with different
lenses. Its actually not that much heavier than a D60 or D30 when
you add the grip. I think the weight difference is about 3/4 a
pound! I have not compared them to D1x figures yet.
Jason Stoller said:
Steven

--
'The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, but the
unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to him--therefore, all
progress depends upon the unreasonable man.'
-- Samuel Butler
Click to expand...
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their
new products!
Click to expand...
 
ruthann said:
For me, the question boiled down to --- did I want to
spend the bulk of my time thinking about the camera or
paying attention to the event? With the D30, my
attention at an event was primarily on how to make
the camera work, how to pre-focus, how to work around
the 'situation'. My attention was on the machine.

With the 1D, my attention is back where it should be:
on the event I'm shooting. That is a MAJOR shift
in my experience between the D30 and 1D. I'm very
keen on catching fleeting moments, fleeting expressions,
a convergence of details that help tell a story in
one shot. Sometimes that 'convergence', that opportunity,
only presents itself once. With the 1D, I'm back to
that kind of priority. My attention is where it
belongs again.

The 1D has brought the JOYFULNESS back into the
mix. I know I'll be happy with this camera for
some time to come. Although this didn't answer
your specific questions, I hope it helps put
the experience of the two systems into perspective,
for what it's worth.
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.netPhotography -- just another word for compromise
 
I couldn't agree more, Ruthann. I started with the D30 and used it extensively to shoot sports for a local newpaper. I too, however, was always worried about whether the shot I just took was sharp, since the AF couldn't keep up with the movements of the players. I found myself constantly checking the images, zooming in to make sure I had a "keeper". I had few keepers after every shoot, and only about 4-5 really excellent action shots from 1 and 1/2 years of shooting with the D30. I 'made it work", and always managed to come home with something worth printing, but it was always a struggle.

I just received the 1D last Thursday, and it's truly like going from a minivan (very nice vehicle, for what it does) to a Ferrari (really really nice vehicle that makes you feel like you're on top of the world).

I feel it's worth every penny to forget about the camera and worrying most about what's in that viewfinder. I've never been happier.

At first I was very concerned that the 1D doesn't have a zoom function in playback, but I now think I shouldn't need it. You can set the playback up to show you what area of the image is focused. It superimposes the red AF points onto the image you see on the LCD. Very cool.

Good luck with your decision, I'm really glad I made the jump.

Chris
ruthann said:
Thank you, David.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Chris,

I also shoot for a newspaper. We've both been in the unhappy
position of HAVING to get a shot that's publishable...talk
about being stressful at times.

Glad you're so happy with your new camera and glad you
understand the difference in how you're now approaching
an event.

re: You can set the playback up to show you what area of
the image is focused. It superimposes the red AF points
onto the image you see on the LCD.

VERY COOL TIP --- I didn't know that. Thanks.

Ruth Ann
 
Technically, it only shows the AF-points used. If your camera is back-focusing or front-focusing, then it's not showing you the points that are IN focus. ;)

Also (and this is something worthy of note), if you AF on a subject, engage AF-lock, then recompose, those points (once again) only show the AF points that are being used. They will NOT be aligned over the points on the picture that are actually in focus. Same thing if the subject moved.

Just something to keep in mind if you're comparing later on. If the AF points don't seem to line up with what's in focus, the camera and/or subject may have moved between AF-lock and shutter release.

Also, in AI-Servo mode, you can't tell what AF point was chosen by the camera.
ruthann said:
re: You can set the playback up to show you what area of
the image is focused. It superimposes the red AF points
onto the image you see on the LCD.

VERY COOL TIP --- I didn't know that. Thanks.
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.netPhotography -- just another word for compromise
 
David,

Thanks for the clarification. You've obviously studied up
on this camera much more than I have. Typical of me that
I just go start using the camera without digging into
how to use it to its best advantages...a fault of mine,
to be sure.

You guys are such a big help.

Thanks again.

Ruth Ann
 
LOL -- nope, just the voice of experience. ;)

I'm not sure the manual even addresses those issues (maybe buried somewhere).

But, it makes sense, if you sit back and think about it.

I just wish that in AI-Servo mode, you COULD light up the point that the camera is choosing (and changing with time) so you'd KNOW what it's doing. If that could be done, then presumably you could also see which point was being used in the review mode (instead of a ring of AF points).
ruthann said:
Thanks for the clarification. You've obviously studied up
on this camera much more than I have. Typical of me that
I just go start using the camera without digging into
how to use it to its best advantages...a fault of mine,
to be sure.
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.netPhotography -- just another word for compromise
 
ruthann said:
The 1D has brought the JOYFULNESS back into the
mix. I know I'll be happy with this camera for
some time to come.
Click to expand...
I don't know about joyfulness, but I'm looking forward to seeing basketball through the 1D's viewfinder. I spend most of my time worrying about what the D30's center focus point is seeing.
 
DavidP said:
LOL -- nope, just the voice of experience. ;)

I'm not sure the manual even addresses those issues (maybe buried
somewhere).

But, it makes sense, if you sit back and think about it.

I just wish that in AI-Servo mode, you COULD light up the point
that the camera is choosing (and changing with time) so you'd KNOW
what it's doing. If that could be done, then presumably you could
also see which point was being used in the review mode (instead of
a ring of AF points).
Click to expand...
I wish you could do that also, that's one of the few things I would change if I could.
DavidP #28649 said:
ruthann said:
Thanks for the clarification. You've obviously studied up
on this camera much more than I have. Typical of me that
I just go start using the camera without digging into
how to use it to its best advantages...a fault of mine,
to be sure.
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
 
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